Some help on brakes/shock/spring options
Discussion
Ok, I'm just ploughing through Atom options again and need some advice from all you real drivers to help me work out what I should get brakes and suspension wise.
I'm looking at a 220. Use will be plenty of road work with a bunch of trackdays thrown in. I don't mind a slightly compromised set-up on the track (ie. softer) if it means that it's reasonably comfortable on road.
First off brakes:-
* Competition Discs/Pads Front
* Competition Discs/Pads Rear
Are these needed - I don't mind paying extra for the competition disks and pads providing they don't take ages to warm up for normal road use and don't wear much faster. I'm not exactly 'the last of the late brakers' and wondered whether I should instead put the money into the more adjustable shocks/springs.
* Alcon 4 Pot Caliper/290mm Disc Front Brakes
I'm guessing that I don't really need this upgrade unless someone can convince me that the Atom's 490Kg needs bigger anchors than the standard ones to stop.
On to springs/shocks:-
* Bilstein Alum. Dampers - Adjustable Spring Platform
* Bilstein Alum. Dampers – Adjustable Bounce & Rebound
It would be nice to have some adjustability so that I can soften it for the road and stiffen it at the track - but are the adjustable shocks quick and easy to adjust? On my first Atom it was a doddle, but the shocks were a bit basic. An extra £400 for shocks that I never get round to adjusting seems a bit of a waste...
* Eibach Race Springs and Assister Springs
Are the Eibach springs with the assisters worth having? They seem an ideal compromise for road use with a few track days.
I gather the assisters are a bit soft for hard track use, but having driven Mark's a fair bit at Rockingham, they seemed okay to me. Just wondered what effect they have on the road. I'm guessing that they probably make it a bit easier to live with on poor surfaces.
Wheels/tyres wise, I was figuring on just going for the 16" wheel/track tyre package which I think are the Bridgestone's - the Mag wheels look fantastic but are horribly expensive and the Dunlop R tyres will probably have me in a ditch in the wet. I can always get the Mags/Dunlops later just for use at the track I guess (although I really need a trailer first).
Any advice appreciated.
Cheers, Ross.
I'm looking at a 220. Use will be plenty of road work with a bunch of trackdays thrown in. I don't mind a slightly compromised set-up on the track (ie. softer) if it means that it's reasonably comfortable on road.
First off brakes:-
* Competition Discs/Pads Front
* Competition Discs/Pads Rear
Are these needed - I don't mind paying extra for the competition disks and pads providing they don't take ages to warm up for normal road use and don't wear much faster. I'm not exactly 'the last of the late brakers' and wondered whether I should instead put the money into the more adjustable shocks/springs.
* Alcon 4 Pot Caliper/290mm Disc Front Brakes
I'm guessing that I don't really need this upgrade unless someone can convince me that the Atom's 490Kg needs bigger anchors than the standard ones to stop.
On to springs/shocks:-
* Bilstein Alum. Dampers - Adjustable Spring Platform
* Bilstein Alum. Dampers – Adjustable Bounce & Rebound
It would be nice to have some adjustability so that I can soften it for the road and stiffen it at the track - but are the adjustable shocks quick and easy to adjust? On my first Atom it was a doddle, but the shocks were a bit basic. An extra £400 for shocks that I never get round to adjusting seems a bit of a waste...
* Eibach Race Springs and Assister Springs
Are the Eibach springs with the assisters worth having? They seem an ideal compromise for road use with a few track days.
I gather the assisters are a bit soft for hard track use, but having driven Mark's a fair bit at Rockingham, they seemed okay to me. Just wondered what effect they have on the road. I'm guessing that they probably make it a bit easier to live with on poor surfaces.
Wheels/tyres wise, I was figuring on just going for the 16" wheel/track tyre package which I think are the Bridgestone's - the Mag wheels look fantastic but are horribly expensive and the Dunlop R tyres will probably have me in a ditch in the wet. I can always get the Mags/Dunlops later just for use at the track I guess (although I really need a trailer first).
Any advice appreciated.
Cheers, Ross.
hi ross,
I'll order a new one this week to ...
Brakes : competition front and rear is a minimum, but you can wait to upgrade to the Alcon on a second time ... It's clear that the Alcon are better : impossible to overheat them on track and no problem on roads.
You need to take "Competition Rod Ends" for your safety.
Adjustable Bilstein and Eibach (2) springs : you need them for track and once again easy to set for road use. The red assister is a little bit soft but you can ask Simon for a harder one (as for the other springs, but only necessary if lot of track day with maximum efficiency)
Tyres : 16' Track are the the Dunlop, 16' "normal" are the Bridg (not the same price ...). For Track day and road use take the Dunlop (or Yoko A048R). If it's raining on road, only take care of the aquaplanning, but you feel it coming with looking to your tyres when driving (very easy to see if the tyre is at its limit to push the water when you are driving...)
Hope it helps !
Jean-Pascal
I'll order a new one this week to ...
Brakes : competition front and rear is a minimum, but you can wait to upgrade to the Alcon on a second time ... It's clear that the Alcon are better : impossible to overheat them on track and no problem on roads.
You need to take "Competition Rod Ends" for your safety.
Adjustable Bilstein and Eibach (2) springs : you need them for track and once again easy to set for road use. The red assister is a little bit soft but you can ask Simon for a harder one (as for the other springs, but only necessary if lot of track day with maximum efficiency)
Tyres : 16' Track are the the Dunlop, 16' "normal" are the Bridg (not the same price ...). For Track day and road use take the Dunlop (or Yoko A048R). If it's raining on road, only take care of the aquaplanning, but you feel it coming with looking to your tyres when driving (very easy to see if the tyre is at its limit to push the water when you are driving...)
Hope it helps !
Jean-Pascal
Hi Ross!
What proportion were you expecting road to track - both in terms of time and in terms of importance?
I guess you could do a lot worse that starting off with the standard car and then retrofitting stuff as and when you feel it's suitable. That's one of the great things about the Atom - its versatility. I think that a lot of the excellent and experienced advice you may get here is race/track biased so perhaps better suited to how you'll feel having lived with the car for a bit and discovered where you feel the shortcomings for your use are.
I think that if you're doing mostly road use, I'd set the car up for that and accept a little less grip on track. Anyway, if you're plumping for road tyres and wheels, the highly technical suspension setup (I imagine) isn't quite as crtical. Don't forget - we both had the standard factory setup for some years and still had a huge hoot with it! I would, however, tick the box for the twin bubble screens if you're doing long distance stuff as I'm sure it makes a big difference.
And if you get your order in now, can you persuade Simon to promise delivery before March 5th? I was quoted 8 weeks at one point, so it could be feasible.
What proportion were you expecting road to track - both in terms of time and in terms of importance?
I guess you could do a lot worse that starting off with the standard car and then retrofitting stuff as and when you feel it's suitable. That's one of the great things about the Atom - its versatility. I think that a lot of the excellent and experienced advice you may get here is race/track biased so perhaps better suited to how you'll feel having lived with the car for a bit and discovered where you feel the shortcomings for your use are.
I think that if you're doing mostly road use, I'd set the car up for that and accept a little less grip on track. Anyway, if you're plumping for road tyres and wheels, the highly technical suspension setup (I imagine) isn't quite as crtical. Don't forget - we both had the standard factory setup for some years and still had a huge hoot with it! I would, however, tick the box for the twin bubble screens if you're doing long distance stuff as I'm sure it makes a big difference.
And if you get your order in now, can you persuade Simon to promise delivery before March 5th? I was quoted 8 weeks at one point, so it could be feasible.
I can only speak to the set up on my one, which is the old factory demonstrator. Mine has all those options. Bruce is spot on though: Get what you need for how you use it: I race a fair bit and pretty much only use it on the track, so will want a different and much more aggressive set up than others may.
Dampers: make a huge difference. I can turn mine from massive understeer to massive oversteer; more grip but twitchy to more progressive but less grippy, by adjusting the dampers. Its a two-minute job to go from road spec to track spec, but if you aren't going to adjust them, though, don't bother.
Springs etc: I would go for the adjustable spring platform, which allows you to adjust the set up to suit you and to corner weight it properly with your driver weight in it (this makes a huge difference in a car this light). If you are happy with the standard set up though, see above!
Eibach race: The assister springs are too soft for the track, i.e. they compress completely, but improve grip and traction on less-than-perfect surfaces. More use on the road than track. We are debating slinging them on ours, but that is used pretty much only for track use. They are no major issue even for us, but if you didn't notice a problem with your last one, is it worth the money?
Rod ends: these are expensive to change and a safety point, so I would go for them.
Brakes: I'm the wrong person to ask. I need all I can get. Realistically, they can be retrofitted, so I would simply spec the competition pads. We may well fit the Alcons to the rear as well, but we will lose the handbrake (which I never use anyway).
Wheels / tyres: I really don't see the downside in the Formula Rs / Yokos. They have more grip than a standard tyre wet or dry. The difference is greater, so people think they have less grip in the wet than a road tyre. Not true. They have plenty of feedback, so I really would not worry about using them on the road in the wet and J-P is right, easy to see coming, since the spray stops coming off a tyre about to aquaplane. I can't speak about wear, we got through three sets last season. I would at least go for the wheel combo which allows you to use the Formula Rs.
Mag wheels: much lower unsprung weight, so will make the dampers work better, which give you a better ride. It will be comfier on the road and have better traction and turn in especially on rougher surfaces. Brakes slightly better too. If I had to choose between assister springs and mags, I would go for the latter, although mags are easier to add later!
If in doubt, keep it simple. For most people, most of the time the standard set up is just fine.
MC
Dampers: make a huge difference. I can turn mine from massive understeer to massive oversteer; more grip but twitchy to more progressive but less grippy, by adjusting the dampers. Its a two-minute job to go from road spec to track spec, but if you aren't going to adjust them, though, don't bother.
Springs etc: I would go for the adjustable spring platform, which allows you to adjust the set up to suit you and to corner weight it properly with your driver weight in it (this makes a huge difference in a car this light). If you are happy with the standard set up though, see above!
Eibach race: The assister springs are too soft for the track, i.e. they compress completely, but improve grip and traction on less-than-perfect surfaces. More use on the road than track. We are debating slinging them on ours, but that is used pretty much only for track use. They are no major issue even for us, but if you didn't notice a problem with your last one, is it worth the money?
Rod ends: these are expensive to change and a safety point, so I would go for them.
Brakes: I'm the wrong person to ask. I need all I can get. Realistically, they can be retrofitted, so I would simply spec the competition pads. We may well fit the Alcons to the rear as well, but we will lose the handbrake (which I never use anyway).
Wheels / tyres: I really don't see the downside in the Formula Rs / Yokos. They have more grip than a standard tyre wet or dry. The difference is greater, so people think they have less grip in the wet than a road tyre. Not true. They have plenty of feedback, so I really would not worry about using them on the road in the wet and J-P is right, easy to see coming, since the spray stops coming off a tyre about to aquaplane. I can't speak about wear, we got through three sets last season. I would at least go for the wheel combo which allows you to use the Formula Rs.
Mag wheels: much lower unsprung weight, so will make the dampers work better, which give you a better ride. It will be comfier on the road and have better traction and turn in especially on rougher surfaces. Brakes slightly better too. If I had to choose between assister springs and mags, I would go for the latter, although mags are easier to add later!
If in doubt, keep it simple. For most people, most of the time the standard set up is just fine.
MC
Thanks Meyrick,
It's looking like I'll be going for the full monty:-
* Alcon 4 Pot Caliper/290mm Disc Front Brakes
* Competition Discs/Pads Rear
* Bilstein Alum. Dampers – Adjustable Bounce & Rebound
* Eibach Race Springs and Assister Springs
* 16" Wheels with the Dunlops
* Competition rod ends (practically a default option anyhow I think)
I hear what you're saying on the assister springs, but that sounds about ideal for my use - the roads around here are a bag of shite that bit of compliance could be useful.
Cheers, Ross.
It's looking like I'll be going for the full monty:-
* Alcon 4 Pot Caliper/290mm Disc Front Brakes
* Competition Discs/Pads Rear
* Bilstein Alum. Dampers – Adjustable Bounce & Rebound
* Eibach Race Springs and Assister Springs
* 16" Wheels with the Dunlops
* Competition rod ends (practically a default option anyhow I think)
I hear what you're saying on the assister springs, but that sounds about ideal for my use - the roads around here are a bag of shite that bit of compliance could be useful.
Cheers, Ross.
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