Pictures from Rockingham
Discussion
) - and many thanks to the factory for supporting us. 
Firstly it was great to see a large number of Atoms at a trackday and especially since they represented multiple generations with the supercharged one definitely impressive but...(and you knew this was coming)...
Did any of you go to the briefing? There was some very interesing interpretation of the over take by consent rule. This is not a lone voice of dissent either I am afraid.
There where 4 of us in my group and all of us had a tale to tell which were compounded by a few others, some of who took the option to talk to BaT.
Did any of you go to the briefing? There was some very interesing interpretation of the over take by consent rule. This is not a lone voice of dissent either I am afraid.
There where 4 of us in my group and all of us had a tale to tell which were compounded by a few others, some of who took the option to talk to BaT.
Hi Max!
As far as I know all my fellow standard Atom drivers were at the 9:30 briefing (I'm, not sure about Jon in the yellow one, but I'm confident that BaT wouldn't let anyone out who hadn't been briefed.) If you could let me know who the main offender/s were offline, I'll gladly have a quiet word... If you can identify them by colour - Red, Blue, Yellow, Turquoise or Black that would help (there were two black ones, both driven by experienced trackdayers, though...)
The LAST thing any of us want is to be tarred with the same brush as Radical drivers at trackdays!
Bruce
PS I assume it wasn't me (in the turquoise) as I know for a fact that I didn't overtake anyone except by consent!
PPS There wasn't a supercharged one there... the Turquoise is a Mk1 165bhp K series, the Yellow is a 'special' 290bhp K series, the blue is a Mk2 Honda 160 bhp, and the others were all stock 220 bhp Hondas.
>> Edited by bruce fielding on Monday 27th September 12:34
As far as I know all my fellow standard Atom drivers were at the 9:30 briefing (I'm, not sure about Jon in the yellow one, but I'm confident that BaT wouldn't let anyone out who hadn't been briefed.) If you could let me know who the main offender/s were offline, I'll gladly have a quiet word... If you can identify them by colour - Red, Blue, Yellow, Turquoise or Black that would help (there were two black ones, both driven by experienced trackdayers, though...)
The LAST thing any of us want is to be tarred with the same brush as Radical drivers at trackdays!
Bruce
PS I assume it wasn't me (in the turquoise) as I know for a fact that I didn't overtake anyone except by consent!
PPS There wasn't a supercharged one there... the Turquoise is a Mk1 165bhp K series, the Yellow is a 'special' 290bhp K series, the blue is a Mk2 Honda 160 bhp, and the others were all stock 220 bhp Hondas.
>> Edited by bruce fielding on Monday 27th September 12:34
Just to avoid any confusion, your ariels looked great and you seemed a decent bunch of guys, but...
The crazy loonatic in the French plated one should have been hung by his sensitive parts for the way he drove, and it wasn't just me that thought that. I managed to talk my bro out of complaining to Jonny but later on I started to regret that decision.
Mind you, the black one overtaking me coming out of the hairpin at the start of turn 4 probably found it funny by not waiting for a signal and then blatting past under acceleration, but what if I'd turned towards the pit lane to exit the track?
But, I'm not going to mention the orange Locaterfield that passed FOUR of us on the inside of the double hairpin - I dicussed that with him afterwards!!!
The worst Bookatrack day I've attended for stupid overtaking.
A good day overall though!
Robscim
The crazy loonatic in the French plated one should have been hung by his sensitive parts for the way he drove, and it wasn't just me that thought that. I managed to talk my bro out of complaining to Jonny but later on I started to regret that decision.
Mind you, the black one overtaking me coming out of the hairpin at the start of turn 4 probably found it funny by not waiting for a signal and then blatting past under acceleration, but what if I'd turned towards the pit lane to exit the track?
But, I'm not going to mention the orange Locaterfield that passed FOUR of us on the inside of the double hairpin - I dicussed that with him afterwards!!!
The worst Bookatrack day I've attended for stupid overtaking.
A good day overall though!
Robscim
Rob/Max,
Sorry to hear you (and any others) had problems, I'm sure your comments will be taken on board by anyone involved.
I personally hope that I didn't cause any problem as I also hate being over taken without having given prior consent myself - always a nightmare given the crappy rear view on these cars.
My first time out with BAT - excellent day.
Cheers, Ross.
Sorry to hear you (and any others) had problems, I'm sure your comments will be taken on board by anyone involved.
I personally hope that I didn't cause any problem as I also hate being over taken without having given prior consent myself - always a nightmare given the crappy rear view on these cars.
My first time out with BAT - excellent day.
Cheers, Ross.
Dispaly2u,
I should remember that, next time someone does something stupid, I'll report it to the marshalls and Jonny and let him decide.
Personally, I'd rather not ruin someone's day but hope they drive with a bit more consideration in future.
Unless you'd like me to get some of the guys who shared the same view with me on the day (just in case you think I'm being over-sensitive).
Robscim
I should remember that, next time someone does something stupid, I'll report it to the marshalls and Jonny and let him decide.
Personally, I'd rather not ruin someone's day but hope they drive with a bit more consideration in future.
Unless you'd like me to get some of the guys who shared the same view with me on the day (just in case you think I'm being over-sensitive).
Robscim
Bruce, I was just making a joke - I know you were all at the briefing I was just trying to keep it all light hearted and share with you some of the frustrations that myself and some fellow participants experienced.
You can be confident that is wasn't you but as in so many things the actions of a few can impact the perception of the wider group. I can actually remember who the others were but I suspect that this thread is sufficient to demonstrate that, rightly or wrongly, the perception was that there were some issues with "over enthusiasm"!
display2u it's a valid point that you are making and I don't have a good answer I am afriad. I think the primary problem with this sort of thing is that it only takes 1 occurrence to generate a negative impact in the "affected" person's mind. You know what's it like with all these things - in general it is easier to remember/complain about the one bad thing rather than remember/admire the numerous examples of good, courteous behaviour.
I would have to agree with Rob that (and this is based on circa 10 or 11 days this year) yesterday's was the worst in terms of adherence to the overtaking rule. It would be unfair, however, to suggest that this was in any way confined to the Ariels it's just you tend to notice them for some reason :-)
You can be confident that is wasn't you but as in so many things the actions of a few can impact the perception of the wider group. I can actually remember who the others were but I suspect that this thread is sufficient to demonstrate that, rightly or wrongly, the perception was that there were some issues with "over enthusiasm"!
display2u it's a valid point that you are making and I don't have a good answer I am afriad. I think the primary problem with this sort of thing is that it only takes 1 occurrence to generate a negative impact in the "affected" person's mind. You know what's it like with all these things - in general it is easier to remember/complain about the one bad thing rather than remember/admire the numerous examples of good, courteous behaviour.
I would have to agree with Rob that (and this is based on circa 10 or 11 days this year) yesterday's was the worst in terms of adherence to the overtaking rule. It would be unfair, however, to suggest that this was in any way confined to the Ariels it's just you tend to notice them for some reason :-)
To Robwalker (in particular)
My brother and me were driven the french plates Red Atom 220. Only for your information, we have a serious back-ground in competition and in track-days (in France), with every kind of car on the track.
During the briefing, we understood (with no difficulies) that overtaking had to be made on left side, in straight line, after that the car in front had seen us and made a sign. I have totaly respected that and it's the first time that someone makes remark about our driving after a trackday.
It's clear that there was important speed difference with your car, for example, but it's clear to that we had wait many many times during corners and straight lines that the car in front make a sign, but this totaly logical.
I'm badly surprised about one thing : why nobody comes to discuss with us during the day if there was a so specific problem to solve about our driving ???
I don't like to have to see these comments on a forum, the day after, by a man who doesn't come to see us ...
Only consider one thing : my brother and I have made 2200 Km during the WE to come and have pleasure during this track-day because we love cars, as you do, and for this reason i have bought an Atom. I'm sure that a discussion can solve problem, but no discussion can't.
Jean-Pascal
My brother and me were driven the french plates Red Atom 220. Only for your information, we have a serious back-ground in competition and in track-days (in France), with every kind of car on the track.
During the briefing, we understood (with no difficulies) that overtaking had to be made on left side, in straight line, after that the car in front had seen us and made a sign. I have totaly respected that and it's the first time that someone makes remark about our driving after a trackday.
It's clear that there was important speed difference with your car, for example, but it's clear to that we had wait many many times during corners and straight lines that the car in front make a sign, but this totaly logical.
I'm badly surprised about one thing : why nobody comes to discuss with us during the day if there was a so specific problem to solve about our driving ???
I don't like to have to see these comments on a forum, the day after, by a man who doesn't come to see us ...
Only consider one thing : my brother and I have made 2200 Km during the WE to come and have pleasure during this track-day because we love cars, as you do, and for this reason i have bought an Atom. I'm sure that a discussion can solve problem, but no discussion can't.
Jean-Pascal
As a general rule, I think that any lack of adherence to trackday rules should be reported - especially overtaking without consent, and discourteously holding up the car behind. In this way, one abdicates oneself of any responsibility should the the same person who trangressed once do it again with more disasterous consequences. (I speak as someone who once had a car 'remodelled' by an undertaking tosser at at trackday with very expensive repercussions following a car/armco interface.)
Give the the organisers and the marshalls the information and then let them observe and decide - that's what they're there for...
Give the the organisers and the marshalls the information and then let them observe and decide - that's what they're there for...
monza said:
I'm sure that a discussion can solve problem, but no discussion can't.
Well said JP - especially since Rob was based in the same garage as us... We're not ogres and we're not silly, and of course we would have taken seriously any comments made to us on the day.
Personally I had a great time - apart from the 15 minutes in Mark's car which might just have cost me a thousand pounds a minute... you bugger!
Hi Rob and all else involved.
I'd like to think that everyone had a good trackday yesterday and are sorry that anyone felt that they had their day diminished by any of us Atom drivers.
I'm sure that I was guilty of a couple of things, it might be me towards turn 4(If you where driving the Elise, there was a Caterfield thingy in front who signaled to move over and the Elise followed him, so I went to go past, sorry)
Not an excuse, but If I'd reported everyone that held me up for more than a polite period of time, half the field would have been bared. Maybe open pit lanes aren't quite the one size fits all answer, but they do give much more flexibility for those that want to spend more time out and those that don't.
Mind you, thanks to the Saab drive that waved me though right on top of the corner, my fault for not noticing but it made Mark laugh as I spun!
Lastly, as said, please come and talk to anyone that is an offender during the day. You end up with a lot of finger pointing afterwards and we are all very nice people and will take a quiet word in good humor, (well most of us!!!!!)
Julian (Badge70)
I'd like to think that everyone had a good trackday yesterday and are sorry that anyone felt that they had their day diminished by any of us Atom drivers.
I'm sure that I was guilty of a couple of things, it might be me towards turn 4(If you where driving the Elise, there was a Caterfield thingy in front who signaled to move over and the Elise followed him, so I went to go past, sorry)
Not an excuse, but If I'd reported everyone that held me up for more than a polite period of time, half the field would have been bared. Maybe open pit lanes aren't quite the one size fits all answer, but they do give much more flexibility for those that want to spend more time out and those that don't.
Mind you, thanks to the Saab drive that waved me though right on top of the corner, my fault for not noticing but it made Mark laugh as I spun!
Lastly, as said, please come and talk to anyone that is an offender during the day. You end up with a lot of finger pointing afterwards and we are all very nice people and will take a quiet word in good humor, (well most of us!!!!!)
Julian (Badge70)
I do agree that the right approach is probably a quiet word with either the TDO or the person/s concerned. I think that our reticence is typical of the reserve of the British - i.e. it is easier to moan about it all afterwards thereby avoiding the possibility of any confrontation!
To put all this in perspective - despite these comments there was only car to car contact on the day as a result of poor adherance to the overtaking rules and it had absolutely nothing to do with the Ariels.
Monza, personally as the one responsible for starting this discussion I hope that you do not in anyway become discouraged from attending any further UK days.
To put all this in perspective - despite these comments there was only car to car contact on the day as a result of poor adherance to the overtaking rules and it had absolutely nothing to do with the Ariels.
Monza, personally as the one responsible for starting this discussion I hope that you do not in anyway become discouraged from attending any further UK days.
Monza et al,
Firstly, Monza, I would have come and had a word but late in the day I was trying to get as much track time as I could and I didn't wait for you to return to the garage as this wouldn't have helped. If I'd seen you, I would have. Interestingly, in the car going home, a number of the guys in my car mentioned your car in particular, so maybe it was a cumulation of passes, rather than one really bad one. Apologies for not coming and saying something to you at the time.
The orange locaterfield did upset me to the extent that I did go and hunt him out. He acknowledged the manoeuvre was wrong and apologised. End of story. Nearly end of car!!
I have no beef with the atoms in general at all, indeed, as I said previously, you seemed a decent bunch of guys with great track cars.
Maybe there is an issue with cars of such varying degrees of lap speed as an atom and the old scimitar beast of mine, but we'd all be unhappy now if there'd been a major coming together.
I've never known a trackday where so many cars overtook without being signalled - and I'm probably more aware of this than most driving probably the slowest car on track on the day. Late in the day, some drivers seemed to consider this the norm.
There seems to be a number of approaches to solve this - one is to complain at every event to the marshalls and eventually someone will get chucked out; two, to go and speak to anyone making such a manoeuvre and explain the error of their ways
(Hmm..); or three, try to drive as best you can and hope that its just an isolated mistake. I prefer the latter as I don't want to spoil others' fun. To expect the marshalls to perform this for you is unlikely to happen. How many poeple were spoken to by the marshalls on the day??
Anyway, enough said. I hope you understand my point. Thankfully no-one was taken out and we all live to drive another day.
Robscim
Firstly, Monza, I would have come and had a word but late in the day I was trying to get as much track time as I could and I didn't wait for you to return to the garage as this wouldn't have helped. If I'd seen you, I would have. Interestingly, in the car going home, a number of the guys in my car mentioned your car in particular, so maybe it was a cumulation of passes, rather than one really bad one. Apologies for not coming and saying something to you at the time.
The orange locaterfield did upset me to the extent that I did go and hunt him out. He acknowledged the manoeuvre was wrong and apologised. End of story. Nearly end of car!!
I have no beef with the atoms in general at all, indeed, as I said previously, you seemed a decent bunch of guys with great track cars.
Maybe there is an issue with cars of such varying degrees of lap speed as an atom and the old scimitar beast of mine, but we'd all be unhappy now if there'd been a major coming together.
I've never known a trackday where so many cars overtook without being signalled - and I'm probably more aware of this than most driving probably the slowest car on track on the day. Late in the day, some drivers seemed to consider this the norm.
There seems to be a number of approaches to solve this - one is to complain at every event to the marshalls and eventually someone will get chucked out; two, to go and speak to anyone making such a manoeuvre and explain the error of their ways
(Hmm..); or three, try to drive as best you can and hope that its just an isolated mistake. I prefer the latter as I don't want to spoil others' fun. To expect the marshalls to perform this for you is unlikely to happen. How many poeple were spoken to by the marshalls on the day?? Anyway, enough said. I hope you understand my point. Thankfully no-one was taken out and we all live to drive another day.
Robscim
Robscim,
just for information, during about 2 hours of driving during the day (only for me, and about 1h30 for my brother), the only lap where i don't overtake any car was the last one of the day. Generaly, it was 2 to 5 cars a lap. So i can understand that you and some of your friends were not satisfied to see always the same cars, and mine in particular, doing overtaking.
I can imagine that's not easy to accept every-time to change line to let the other car overtake, but you can imagine to that when some cars were taking 4 or 5 corners and straight lines to "open" the way, i was not satisfied to wait, even if that doesn't change my driving attitude. I'm sure that the few (courageous) men who comes with me or my brother can confirm that.
To my opinion, the main problem is coming from the speed difference because of the Open-pitlane princip of this track-day.
When there are series, you can choose the most appropriate one to the speed you have because of your car.
Last information, i can't imagine (and hope you can't) i'm stupid enougth to crash my 50 K€ car to another one or on a concreate wall ... with no track insurance.
Concerning the fact that some of your friends pointed my car (or me), it's certainly because it (or me) was fast ... or perhaps for the red colour, not for bad ideas !
Hope to see you on a next track-day to have some laps with you in my car, so that you can appreciate my safe driving.
Kind regards,
Jean-Pascal
just for information, during about 2 hours of driving during the day (only for me, and about 1h30 for my brother), the only lap where i don't overtake any car was the last one of the day. Generaly, it was 2 to 5 cars a lap. So i can understand that you and some of your friends were not satisfied to see always the same cars, and mine in particular, doing overtaking.
I can imagine that's not easy to accept every-time to change line to let the other car overtake, but you can imagine to that when some cars were taking 4 or 5 corners and straight lines to "open" the way, i was not satisfied to wait, even if that doesn't change my driving attitude. I'm sure that the few (courageous) men who comes with me or my brother can confirm that.
To my opinion, the main problem is coming from the speed difference because of the Open-pitlane princip of this track-day.
When there are series, you can choose the most appropriate one to the speed you have because of your car.
Last information, i can't imagine (and hope you can't) i'm stupid enougth to crash my 50 K€ car to another one or on a concreate wall ... with no track insurance.
Concerning the fact that some of your friends pointed my car (or me), it's certainly because it (or me) was fast ... or perhaps for the red colour, not for bad ideas !
Hope to see you on a next track-day to have some laps with you in my car, so that you can appreciate my safe driving.
Kind regards,
Jean-Pascal
Jean-Pascal,
Being the slowest car on track on Sunday, I certainly wasn't upset in any way to be over-taken by you or anybody else - its a consequence of lapping at that speed. If I was upset by it, I'd buy a faster car.
I am sure you didn't want to endanger your car aginst mine or anybody else's, particularly when yours is probably worth 50 times the value of mine. Indeed, that is exactly the point, I run an older car as almost a disposable item and am not that worried if it gets a dent or two (I can push it to the limits without concern) - its those nicer cars (including yours) that would suffer the most.
Maybe next time, you'll take me for a ride in your ariel and you can come along in the scimitar - its a very different ride, I'm sure!!
I've discussed this at length tonight with the friends I was there with, just to check I wasn't losing the plot (who said again?). The consensus is that during the last half an hour, numerous drivers seemed to realise they wouldn't be in too much trouble for passing without consent as the day was nearly over and banning them would have no effect. I was passed by numerous cars during the last 2 outings, in what can only be described as in a crazy manner.
I think I've said enough and hopefully some folks will think about the day after the event.
Still enjoyed seeing the ariels there - was it one of you guys at Le mans this year??
Robscim
Being the slowest car on track on Sunday, I certainly wasn't upset in any way to be over-taken by you or anybody else - its a consequence of lapping at that speed. If I was upset by it, I'd buy a faster car.
I am sure you didn't want to endanger your car aginst mine or anybody else's, particularly when yours is probably worth 50 times the value of mine. Indeed, that is exactly the point, I run an older car as almost a disposable item and am not that worried if it gets a dent or two (I can push it to the limits without concern) - its those nicer cars (including yours) that would suffer the most.
Maybe next time, you'll take me for a ride in your ariel and you can come along in the scimitar - its a very different ride, I'm sure!!
I've discussed this at length tonight with the friends I was there with, just to check I wasn't losing the plot (who said again?). The consensus is that during the last half an hour, numerous drivers seemed to realise they wouldn't be in too much trouble for passing without consent as the day was nearly over and banning them would have no effect. I was passed by numerous cars during the last 2 outings, in what can only be described as in a crazy manner.
I think I've said enough and hopefully some folks will think about the day after the event.
Still enjoyed seeing the ariels there - was it one of you guys at Le mans this year??
Robscim
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