220 & 245 to 300?
Discussion
Get the Atom 2 300, similar price to the 3 245 - look at the loveliness...
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
DonnyMac said:
Get the Atom 2 300, similar price to the 3 245 - look at the loveliness...
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
They're similarly priced because the Atom 3 is a significantly better car to drive than an Atom 2.http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
If you want an Atom with headroom, get an Atom 3 245. You can drive it for a bit, get to know it and then decide whether you want SC it or not. If you do, the factory will retrofit the blower for £5K. However, on our crappy roads, the 245 is a just about drivable beast and the 300 is waste of power.
356Speedster said:
DonnyMac said:
Get the Atom 2 300, similar price to the 3 245 - look at the loveliness...
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
They're similarly priced because the Atom 3 is a significantly better car to drive than an Atom 2.http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
If you want an Atom with headroom, get an Atom 3 245. You can drive it for a bit, get to know it and then decide whether you want SC it or not. If you do, the factory will retrofit the blower for £5K. However, on our crappy roads, the 245 is a just about drivable beast and the 300 is waste of power.
The sc and non sc are completely different cars; IMO the 300 is not a waste of power at all, it's all talk or is it torque...
The sc pulls all the time from pretty much any gear so is better around town as you just point and go.
IIRC, the discussion on the difference is how rewarding the 245 is on track, as (apparently) you really need to work the car through the gears to get the best out of it - this can be/is rewarding for those who like it.
I've not driven a 245, I'm merely repeating what I've heard from those who have the 245 and love it.
I love the 300 whine and torque, I also cried when I watched the Fox and the Hounds when I was 5 so drive them both and let me know what you think of the movie
I had an Atom 3 245 for 3yrs, bought new with the idea of supercharging it after I got to know it (it's current owner has it for sale on the PH classifieds).
My experience in 90% road driving was that the 245 pulls very well in all the gears even from low down (thanks to low weight) and is very linear in it's delivery. As such, you can use the power and drive the car just on the edge of wheel slip easily.
I went back to the factory about 12mths into ownership and drive the 300 demonstrator, as I was on the cusp of ordering the upgrade and all I can say is, I was glad I did. The 300 was spinning the wheels out of bends, down straights, over surface imperfections, etc causing me to have to back out of the throttle, where the 245 would have juuuuust clung on and maintained full acceleration. That drive saved me £5K and moreover, saved me from losing the driving experience I so loved in the 245.
Now, don't get me wrong, on a nice smooth, dry road, the 300 could get the power down with warm tyres, but for me with our rubbish roads & weather, was too low a percentage of the time I'd spend on the road with it. On a big open track, of course, the 300 would be the way to go.
What I'm trying to say (badly probably), is that IMO the 245 is the better and more rounded driver's car with fewer drawbacks. You can exploit it more of the time and that's what was important to me, not the willy-waving of having a 'charger (even if they do sound great!!!).
My experience in 90% road driving was that the 245 pulls very well in all the gears even from low down (thanks to low weight) and is very linear in it's delivery. As such, you can use the power and drive the car just on the edge of wheel slip easily.
I went back to the factory about 12mths into ownership and drive the 300 demonstrator, as I was on the cusp of ordering the upgrade and all I can say is, I was glad I did. The 300 was spinning the wheels out of bends, down straights, over surface imperfections, etc causing me to have to back out of the throttle, where the 245 would have juuuuust clung on and maintained full acceleration. That drive saved me £5K and moreover, saved me from losing the driving experience I so loved in the 245.
Now, don't get me wrong, on a nice smooth, dry road, the 300 could get the power down with warm tyres, but for me with our rubbish roads & weather, was too low a percentage of the time I'd spend on the road with it. On a big open track, of course, the 300 would be the way to go.
What I'm trying to say (badly probably), is that IMO the 245 is the better and more rounded driver's car with fewer drawbacks. You can exploit it more of the time and that's what was important to me, not the willy-waving of having a 'charger (even if they do sound great!!!).
My 3 300 has yoko cut slicks and rarely if ever do I lose traction unintentionally (bar when in the snow), a friend of mine had TR1s on his 300 and it was great, sliding all over the place but still you felt very much part of the experience, drifting at will, something the Yokos don't let you do happily.
As mentioned, I've not driven a 245 so can't offer any experience of it - however, I'd always imagined that an Atom owner would be a little unhinged to start with so would always want to go down the full-fat route, tyres included.
As mentioned, I've not driven a 245 so can't offer any experience of it - however, I'd always imagined that an Atom owner would be a little unhinged to start with so would always want to go down the full-fat route, tyres included.
I've got a 300; I went for that over the 245 as I wanted the most "mental" variant for my money as I didn't see any point giving in to compromise with this sort of car (you don't buy it for its creature comforts etc 
)
From researching over on the owners club forum, I got the impression that the 300 is "better" on the road because of effortless torque in any gear. Conversely, I got the impression that the 245 may be "better" on track because its easier to drive near the limit because its not as manic/doesn't have the torque of the 300. I suppose it would be easier to drive the 245 harder.
Having said that, I've not driven the 245 so I can't give any personal experience. If I could start over again, I would consider buying a 245 and then add the supercharger at a later date so you get to experience both sides.
Personally I like the whine of the supercharger, although without ear plugs/lid I'm convinced you would eventually go deaf. having said that, youtube clips of 245's sound amazing, much more "throaty" induction noise. The ONLY thing you hear in a 300 when pressing on is an ear piercing whine.
I bought the Atom after spending years riding motorbikes; my choice of the 300 was mainly because of that, I wanted the closest thing to 2 wheels in car form. The 300 is ridiculous, at times I find it borderline terrifying. I love it
)From researching over on the owners club forum, I got the impression that the 300 is "better" on the road because of effortless torque in any gear. Conversely, I got the impression that the 245 may be "better" on track because its easier to drive near the limit because its not as manic/doesn't have the torque of the 300. I suppose it would be easier to drive the 245 harder.
Having said that, I've not driven the 245 so I can't give any personal experience. If I could start over again, I would consider buying a 245 and then add the supercharger at a later date so you get to experience both sides.
Personally I like the whine of the supercharger, although without ear plugs/lid I'm convinced you would eventually go deaf. having said that, youtube clips of 245's sound amazing, much more "throaty" induction noise. The ONLY thing you hear in a 300 when pressing on is an ear piercing whine.
I bought the Atom after spending years riding motorbikes; my choice of the 300 was mainly because of that, I wanted the closest thing to 2 wheels in car form. The 300 is ridiculous, at times I find it borderline terrifying. I love it
Ha, ha, good comments lads! I was in the owners club for 4yrs and such debates were always fun And let's remember, there is no right / wrong answer and final choice is down to personal preference.
I first drove an Atom 2 245 and it's amazing how different that engine is to the one that came in the 3. The 3 is definitely more driveable and pulls nicely thru' the rev-range. It certainly doesn't lack torque and will still light up the rears over bumps / out of corners in 3rd, but I found it to be more progressive than in the 300. As has been stated above, one's preference for the level of grip / breakaway will be a big factor in choosing a 245/300.
On the craggy Midlands / Cotswold / Welsh roads I do my "fun" driving, I had plenty of fight with the car's back end and testing the 300 on the same types of tarmac nailed it for me as I think I'd have been slower point-to-point having to chase the throttle more.
Hey-ho, just my humble opinion, but I'll close by saying that the factory always used to recommend 245s to new customers and provide the option for a S/C upgrade later (at the same price as when selected for a new car), once owners have got to grips with the car. I'd always advocate this to new owners too... try the 245, gain some experience, later on do a test in a 300 and decide if it's right for you
And let's remember, there is no right / wrong answer and final choice is down to personal preference.I first drove an Atom 2 245 and it's amazing how different that engine is to the one that came in the 3. The 3 is definitely more driveable and pulls nicely thru' the rev-range. It certainly doesn't lack torque and will still light up the rears over bumps / out of corners in 3rd, but I found it to be more progressive than in the 300. As has been stated above, one's preference for the level of grip / breakaway will be a big factor in choosing a 245/300.
On the craggy Midlands / Cotswold / Welsh roads I do my "fun" driving, I had plenty of fight with the car's back end and testing the 300 on the same types of tarmac nailed it for me as I think I'd have been slower point-to-point having to chase the throttle more.
Hey-ho, just my humble opinion, but I'll close by saying that the factory always used to recommend 245s to new customers and provide the option for a S/C upgrade later (at the same price as when selected for a new car), once owners have got to grips with the car. I'd always advocate this to new owners too... try the 245, gain some experience, later on do a test in a 300 and decide if it's right for you
I bought my car as a 3 245 and drove it on track and road for 12 months and then had it SC'ed
It's entirely a matter of personal taste - I can't say i love it in either variant on the road but on track in 300 guise it's superb - I found it too frenetic on track when NA as you need to change gear a lot more than which the charger and the massive torque but that is what some folk like - no correct answer - all a matter of personal taste - I can't think of a downside to starting 245 and adding the charger later - I'm glad I did
It's entirely a matter of personal taste - I can't say i love it in either variant on the road but on track in 300 guise it's superb - I found it too frenetic on track when NA as you need to change gear a lot more than which the charger and the massive torque but that is what some folk like - no correct answer - all a matter of personal taste - I can't think of a downside to starting 245 and adding the charger later - I'm glad I did
Just in response to a few of the comments above, I currently drive a 300bhp (with 350lb/ft torque) VX220 turbo with no LSD so I'm quite familiar with loosing traction in the wet
The car would be 90% track day with maybe a few days out in a year if the sun was shining. Although the SC would probably be a similar experience to what I'm used to I'm fine with either.
The car would be 90% track day with maybe a few days out in a year if the sun was shining. Although the SC would probably be a similar experience to what I'm used to I'm fine with either.
356Speedster said:
They're similarly priced because the Atom 3 is a significantly better car to drive than an Atom 2.
I don't believe that to be the case and I have driven both (as well as original Atoms and Brammo cars). I really don't like the drive by wire throttle in the 3 which significantly detracts from the whole experience.I am not saying you will go wrong with a 3 any Atom is a great car, but significantly better? I don't think so.
On the SC vs NA argument I would have though starting with a 245 and upgrading if / when you feel the need makes a lot of sense. I think the upgrade cost is more like £7k than £5k.
Ben
BigBen said:
I don't believe that to be the case and I have driven both (as well as original Atoms and Brammo cars). I really don't like the drive by wire throttle in the 3 which significantly detracts from the whole experience.
I am not saying you will go wrong with a 3 any Atom is a great car, but significantly better? I don't think so.
On the SC vs NA argument I would have though starting with a 245 and upgrading if / when you feel the need makes a lot of sense. I think the upgrade cost is more like £7k than £5k.
Ben
Agree with the FBW comment, that's probably the one thing that takes more getting used to, but Ariel have improved that. Otherwise, my experience is the 2 & 3 are night & day different... which one you prefer is ultimately down to personal preference. I'm a 3 person, but have friends in the club who prefer the raw-ness of the 2 and even some guys who wouldn't swap out of an original 1... each to their own.I am not saying you will go wrong with a 3 any Atom is a great car, but significantly better? I don't think so.
On the SC vs NA argument I would have though starting with a 245 and upgrading if / when you feel the need makes a lot of sense. I think the upgrade cost is more like £7k than £5k.
Ben
What would be nice is to try a 3.5 and see how that differs too...
Has the SC price gone up that much? £5K on the nose was my written price from Ariel, but that was 2-3yrs ago
There is a new map that is said to improve the FBW issue on a 3 300 - I will be trying it out in Spain in a couple a weeks when there will be pretty well the full range of Atom cars there from 2's, 3 245, 3 300's with old and new map, mugen and the new Cup cars - everything except a V8 - i will report back afterwards
356Speedster said:
BigBen said:
I don't believe that to be the case and I have driven both (as well as original Atoms and Brammo cars). I really don't like the drive by wire throttle in the 3 which significantly detracts from the whole experience.
I am not saying you will go wrong with a 3 any Atom is a great car, but significantly better? I don't think so.
On the SC vs NA argument I would have though starting with a 245 and upgrading if / when you feel the need makes a lot of sense. I think the upgrade cost is more like £7k than £5k.
Ben
Agree with the FBW comment, that's probably the one thing that takes more getting used to, but Ariel have improved that. Otherwise, my experience is the 2 & 3 are night & day different... which one you prefer is ultimately down to personal preference. I'm a 3 person, but have friends in the club who prefer the raw-ness of the 2 and even some guys who wouldn't swap out of an original 1... each to their own.I am not saying you will go wrong with a 3 any Atom is a great car, but significantly better? I don't think so.
On the SC vs NA argument I would have though starting with a 245 and upgrading if / when you feel the need makes a lot of sense. I think the upgrade cost is more like £7k than £5k.
Ben
What would be nice is to try a 3.5 and see how that differs too...
Has the SC price gone up that much? £5K on the nose was my written price from Ariel, but that was 2-3yrs ago
Between the 1 and the 2 there was a huge difference, suspension geometry changed as did the power plant so I would agree night and day. FWIW in a lot of ways my 1 was a better road car as it was harder to get into trouble....
Ben
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