Changes to VCA membership what do you think???
Discussion
From: Vogt, Kim [mailto:kvogt@jrthompson.com]
Sent: 02 February 2010 18:52
To: Nabil Arafat; craig; Andras kovacs; viperhed@ccn2.aitai.ne.jp; paul@pccare.co.uk; vipervp10@aol.com
Cc: AzViper1@aol.com
Subject: INT/CAN New and Renewal Members
Dear VCA President,
As some background, USA VCA memberships and International VCA memberships are handled differently.
For USA Regions: National HQ sends out renewals, receives and distributes funds to the US Regions. National retains a portion of the dues for Viper Magazine, etc. and sends the majority of the dues money on a monthly basis to the Regions.
For International (Non-USA Regions) the membership management is left to the Region. National HQ has not collected monies for international dues and then sent a portion to that international region. For many reasons it is just to complicated. Bar far, most international regions collect their full dues directly from their members and then sent the National NBO a list of their members along with a National Membership payment for each of those members. That payment is now usually electronic. National then adds those names to the membership list. The international region retains its portion of the membership dues.
Problems come up when:
The international region collects for only its local dues but sends the members directly to national to pay VCA dues. Why have members pay 2 different places? If the international region is collecting for their local dues it can collect the national amount at the same time. It is a way that region knows their member did not just pay the local dues and skip paying national.
Some international members get mad at the leadership in their local club and figure they will just send in a payment to national direct and not be part of any region. While the VCA has accepted those monies in the past it will no longer do so. Such a practice is injurious to Regions. Members of the VCA are required to be the member of A Region. There is no option for a “National Only” VCA membership in the bylaws.
This will be a change for 1 or 2 of the International Regions in the way they handle memberships but it is not really that much more effort and the result is that each region is strengthened instead of diluted. We hope you will understand this is a necessary procedure to bring about consistency and minimize membership issues and appreciate your support.
Please do not hesitate to let us know if you have any questions.
Best regards,
Kim Vogt
Membership Processing Policy
The National Board approved and adopted the following membership processing policy at the January 21, 2010 meeting.
VCA HQ will directly accept funds and process Member Applications (new and renewal) only from USA Members. Non-USA Members would be processed as follows:
• All Non-USA memberships, new and renewals (Member Applications) are processed and funds collected by the Non-USA Region.
•
• Each respective Non-USA Region forwards on to VCA HQ a list of such new and renewing members along with the VCA portion of the dues and the Region retains its respective portion of the dues.
• VCA HQ only accepts funds and Member Applications from USA Region members and non-USA Regions. VCA HQ would not accept such Member Applications and funds directly from Non-USA Members.
•
• Application and renewal forms are modified to direct all Non-USA Members to apply/renew through their region and to contact VCA HQ to find out which to contact if they don't know. Viper HQ will direct all membership inquires by Non-USA owners to the respective Non-USA Region for the owner to join/renew there.
•
• VCA HQ will not send out renewal notices to Members that live in the USA but are members in a Non-USA Region. That Non-USA Region will be responsible to do that. If VCA-HQ sends out renewal notices to members of Non-USA Regions the notice will specifically direct the member to renew through their Region and not through VCA-HQ.
•
• No Memberships, (USA or Non-USA) will be accepted or processed independent of a Region. There will not be any memberships that contain only a "National VCA" dues without accompanying Regional dues
Kim,
Many thanks for the email and explaining the changes to the membership system, however, it would have been a common courtesy to inform overseas Presidents of the changes to the system so that we could be prepared and this change has caused great problems in the UK, it would have been logical to at least start it for a complete year and not one month after many people have renewed.
There were rumours going in the UK that the USA felt that some overseas regions received ‘Cut Price’ membership and this is what caused the change to be implemented, yet unlike most US regions we receive no help from Dodge in the UK and can count the dealers selling the product on one hand.
The problem I have now been set is, I don’t take credit cards, I pay for all the regions marketing and web site out of my own pocket and therefore have no club bank account to enable me to make payments to the US I will therefore be required to use my own Bank account or credit card and incurring all charges personally for this.
In the UK most of the members really only see this a cost saving in admin to the VCA administrators and for our membership all we really receive is a magazine 4 times a year.
We went down this route some years ago and good sense prevailed and HQ returned to taking individual membership, I doubt on this basis I will renew in 2011 and I am not sure that another brave person will be prepared to take up the challenge, this will could mean the end of the VCA in the UK, but I guess your email could be taken as how little you care about the UK and perhaps this is the writing on the wall and we will go the way of most of the German owners with a local group not part of the VCA.
However as I have now been stuck with this for this year and have a couple of people who wish to renew could you please confirm the current cost of membership, both standard and Venom.
Regards
Paul S Lacey
Personal Computer Care Ltd
Unit F Nicholson Court
Hoddesdon
Herts
EN11 0NR
Tel +44 (0) 1992 462882
Fax +44 (0) 1992 471298
Registered in England 2659462
VAT Number 573246631
Sent: 02 February 2010 18:52
To: Nabil Arafat; craig; Andras kovacs; viperhed@ccn2.aitai.ne.jp; paul@pccare.co.uk; vipervp10@aol.com
Cc: AzViper1@aol.com
Subject: INT/CAN New and Renewal Members
Dear VCA President,
As some background, USA VCA memberships and International VCA memberships are handled differently.
For USA Regions: National HQ sends out renewals, receives and distributes funds to the US Regions. National retains a portion of the dues for Viper Magazine, etc. and sends the majority of the dues money on a monthly basis to the Regions.
For International (Non-USA Regions) the membership management is left to the Region. National HQ has not collected monies for international dues and then sent a portion to that international region. For many reasons it is just to complicated. Bar far, most international regions collect their full dues directly from their members and then sent the National NBO a list of their members along with a National Membership payment for each of those members. That payment is now usually electronic. National then adds those names to the membership list. The international region retains its portion of the membership dues.
Problems come up when:
The international region collects for only its local dues but sends the members directly to national to pay VCA dues. Why have members pay 2 different places? If the international region is collecting for their local dues it can collect the national amount at the same time. It is a way that region knows their member did not just pay the local dues and skip paying national.
Some international members get mad at the leadership in their local club and figure they will just send in a payment to national direct and not be part of any region. While the VCA has accepted those monies in the past it will no longer do so. Such a practice is injurious to Regions. Members of the VCA are required to be the member of A Region. There is no option for a “National Only” VCA membership in the bylaws.
This will be a change for 1 or 2 of the International Regions in the way they handle memberships but it is not really that much more effort and the result is that each region is strengthened instead of diluted. We hope you will understand this is a necessary procedure to bring about consistency and minimize membership issues and appreciate your support.
Please do not hesitate to let us know if you have any questions.
Best regards,
Kim Vogt
Membership Processing Policy
The National Board approved and adopted the following membership processing policy at the January 21, 2010 meeting.
VCA HQ will directly accept funds and process Member Applications (new and renewal) only from USA Members. Non-USA Members would be processed as follows:
• All Non-USA memberships, new and renewals (Member Applications) are processed and funds collected by the Non-USA Region.
•
• Each respective Non-USA Region forwards on to VCA HQ a list of such new and renewing members along with the VCA portion of the dues and the Region retains its respective portion of the dues.
• VCA HQ only accepts funds and Member Applications from USA Region members and non-USA Regions. VCA HQ would not accept such Member Applications and funds directly from Non-USA Members.
•
• Application and renewal forms are modified to direct all Non-USA Members to apply/renew through their region and to contact VCA HQ to find out which to contact if they don't know. Viper HQ will direct all membership inquires by Non-USA owners to the respective Non-USA Region for the owner to join/renew there.
•
• VCA HQ will not send out renewal notices to Members that live in the USA but are members in a Non-USA Region. That Non-USA Region will be responsible to do that. If VCA-HQ sends out renewal notices to members of Non-USA Regions the notice will specifically direct the member to renew through their Region and not through VCA-HQ.
•
• No Memberships, (USA or Non-USA) will be accepted or processed independent of a Region. There will not be any memberships that contain only a "National VCA" dues without accompanying Regional dues
Kim,
Many thanks for the email and explaining the changes to the membership system, however, it would have been a common courtesy to inform overseas Presidents of the changes to the system so that we could be prepared and this change has caused great problems in the UK, it would have been logical to at least start it for a complete year and not one month after many people have renewed.
There were rumours going in the UK that the USA felt that some overseas regions received ‘Cut Price’ membership and this is what caused the change to be implemented, yet unlike most US regions we receive no help from Dodge in the UK and can count the dealers selling the product on one hand.
The problem I have now been set is, I don’t take credit cards, I pay for all the regions marketing and web site out of my own pocket and therefore have no club bank account to enable me to make payments to the US I will therefore be required to use my own Bank account or credit card and incurring all charges personally for this.
In the UK most of the members really only see this a cost saving in admin to the VCA administrators and for our membership all we really receive is a magazine 4 times a year.
We went down this route some years ago and good sense prevailed and HQ returned to taking individual membership, I doubt on this basis I will renew in 2011 and I am not sure that another brave person will be prepared to take up the challenge, this will could mean the end of the VCA in the UK, but I guess your email could be taken as how little you care about the UK and perhaps this is the writing on the wall and we will go the way of most of the German owners with a local group not part of the VCA.
However as I have now been stuck with this for this year and have a couple of people who wish to renew could you please confirm the current cost of membership, both standard and Venom.
Regards
Paul S Lacey
Personal Computer Care Ltd
Unit F Nicholson Court
Hoddesdon
Herts
EN11 0NR
Tel +44 (0) 1992 462882
Fax +44 (0) 1992 471298
Registered in England 2659462
VAT Number 573246631
VCA said:
Problems come up when:
The international region collects for only its local dues but sends the members directly to national to pay VCA dues. Why have members pay 2 different places? If the international region is collecting for their local dues it can collect the national amount at the same time. It is a way that region knows their member did not just pay the local dues and skip paying national.
I can vaguely understad the way of thinking, but bearing in mind the fact that we don't have any 'Local Dues' it is pretty irrellevant... I'm not sure what the best way to do this will be, but I will happily try and find out what we need to do to set up a 'Club Bank Account' if it helps.The international region collects for only its local dues but sends the members directly to national to pay VCA dues. Why have members pay 2 different places? If the international region is collecting for their local dues it can collect the national amount at the same time. It is a way that region knows their member did not just pay the local dues and skip paying national.
Assuming this goes ahead, (and I can only assume that this decision was made in the US with no-one from any International Regions in attendance), then there will be further costs incurred in the UK, which will need to be taken into account, which WILL then require an additional fee for 'Local Dues' as a minimum to cover, Bank charges, Fluctuations in Exchange Rates, Insurances, Postage, Membership Cards etc. But I guess at the end of each year any left over funds can be put toward the Club Christmas do, or used for Club T-shirts, something along those kind of lines.
This is going to take some sorting out, but if we want to retain a UK Viper Club, and maintain a VCA presence in the UK then it is definitely do-able.
There are issues which will need to be addressed, such as attendance at anything which has been partially Club Funded, by Non-VCA members, which will require some adjustment, but if we are setting up a 'proper' UK Club with Club Funds etc, then possibly Members could 'Join' at a nominal fee, with the choice of paying additional funds should they wish to also be a VCA member.
Many of the UK members use the VCA Website in full and enjoy getting the Quarterly Magazine etc, there are ways around this, such as buying a Subscription to the Magazine instead of being a VCA member, and just having basic Website Access (No Membership access) but this does limit your access to certain sections of the site which could be an issue...
This all needs some serious consideration.
Edited by GTSDave on Wednesday 3rd February 10:35
viper paul said:
Yes but we will need a club magazine for those that get nothing
That's where Tom comes in... 
In all seriousness, we will have to think of something I agree. It's an additional cost again though... But maybe we could get advertisers which would help with funding?
This is going to get messy and confusing isn't it!?
What were they thinking about, making these changes without involving the regions affected. Paul I quite understand why you are feeling peeved.
I think the best course of action will be to set up a minimal club to administer the VCA and which keeps costs as low as possible. ie cover the website, stationary and exchange rate fluctuations for the national dues.
unless VCA membership increases as a result of formalization, the UK VCA club bit should probably remain detached from event organisation and administration.
I think the best course of action will be to set up a minimal club to administer the VCA and which keeps costs as low as possible. ie cover the website, stationary and exchange rate fluctuations for the national dues.
unless VCA membership increases as a result of formalization, the UK VCA club bit should probably remain detached from event organisation and administration.
GTSDave said:
Dr-Bob said:
viper paul said:
Yes but we will need a club magazine for those that get nothing
Can you not just register to viper magazines?????I think Paul was referring to a UK news letter though, i seem to be getting those with the same frequency tom got the VCA mag.
Personally speaking I would like to continue being a member of the VCA, the magazines, access to vendors and assistance that website gives is worth the money in my opinion.
I'm sure we can sort something out with the fuss kept to a minimum... It's just going to take a bit of organising.
I'm sure we can sort something out with the fuss kept to a minimum... It's just going to take a bit of organising.
Just had an Email from the canada President, seems the rule was bought in/ asked for by the Canucks seems they had lots of people who were saving mony by paying only the VCA portion of the fee not the full 150 dollars and then turning up at events that were organised and paid for by the VCA group which is a pretty poor show, The canadian El Pres has asked that an exception be made for the UK.
This is now the 3rd time I have gone down this route.
This is now the 3rd time I have gone down this route.
Not sure as I am yet to receive the numbers but last year we had 21 paid up members, they say 23 but they stuck us with people from Greece and Italy.
No I think the best thing is to go with there idea, I am happy to do this now I was a bit pissed that they change everything and don't tell me, it is not worth the agro of getting a bank account etc, if I end up out of pocket it will only be by the exchange rate so probably a few pence.
Bottom line is those that want to renew please send me a cheque before the end of February
No I think the best thing is to go with there idea, I am happy to do this now I was a bit pissed that they change everything and don't tell me, it is not worth the agro of getting a bank account etc, if I end up out of pocket it will only be by the exchange rate so probably a few pence.
Bottom line is those that want to renew please send me a cheque before the end of February
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