Discussion
musclemaniac said:
Yeah man save a dollar and jack the motor....yah ain't rolling in some dumpsta U gats 2 spend da $$$$$
Have you seen a viper engine, its not like its some Japanese engine stressed to a 110% of its capability revving its nuts off to 10,000 rpm generating 600hp/ml. Its a f
king great slow revving torque monster. I bet you could put cooking oil in it and it would run fine.How much thinking about it do you think dodge did in 2010 when they were broke and exon mobil was wanting $$$ for their Mobil 1 product. About as long as it took the tea boy to be sent to autozone to pick up some Pennzoil to chuck in one for a quick run around the block i bet.
seriously, don't put cooking oil in
There are loads of options out there for Oil. Factory oil was 10 -30 sae Mobil 1 for a Gen II, but over here many of us use 0 -40 Mobil 1, as 10 -30 is not available unless you order it from some US importer.
You will also find many of us Viper owners change our oil much more regularly than the service booklet recommends.
OP: I would contact Opie Oils and see what they recommend
You will also find many of us Viper owners change our oil much more regularly than the service booklet recommends.
OP: I would contact Opie Oils and see what they recommend
Edited by fatboy18 on Thursday 16th April 08:26
Ok so my less flippant opinion on the subject.
Mobil 1 is the factory fill for gen 1-4 until chrysler went bust during gen4 production, at that point it was switched to penzoil. Chrysler dealers in the UK are now backed by Fiat. Go and ask them for PS fluid for a 97 and their mopar-fiat cross reference sheet will take you to PS fluid that is not supposedly compatible. Anyway i digress.
Mobil 1 is expensive for what you get, its good oil no doubt but something has to pay for all those stickers on F1 cars and billboards at race tracks, so, when "U gats 2 spend da $$$$$" your buying billboards for silverstone not protection for your engine.
Having said that no one using factory fill brand/spec oil changed as per schedule who has had a blown engine has thought, i wonder if it was that oil i put in 5 years ago in an emergency. On the flip side the internet will never get over that doubt should an engine blow whilst running on some other brand oil even if there is absolutely no evidence to suggest a different brand oil is to blame.
For peace of mind and IMHO the order would go
1) Factory brand specification
2) reputable brand meeting factory spec
3) reputable brand or factory brand meeting grade and vague spec (ie fully synth)
4) reputable brand fully synth slightly lower cold oil grade (5w or 0w)
options 1 and 2 i don't think you need worry too much about things going wrong but if they do you will always have doubt with option 2.
IMHO if it comes to a choice between an oil without the mopar spec number on it or a different grade then I'd give preference to the grade. The basis of that opinion is that the brands work with manufacturers to form specifications and certifications, So castrol working with ford will have magnatech certified for ford and a nice label on the jug, that doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't meet the spec of mopar or chevrolet, its just not tested as such. There are other brands out there that are not manufacturer affiliated and their oils carry lots of certifications, or you have mobil 1 which is used in a lot of prestige engines. What that tell me (IMHO) is that oil is oil and its all more or less the same and up to the job, but they are all carrying a standard grade spec which does change the oils characteristics so i would put more emphasis on that.
As for the grade, if you really must look to a different one then you have to consider what the implications are of that change. If you change the winter grade then the oil is slightly thinner at cold temps. It will run though the engine better at start up, especially in the cold, manufactures have been pushing the winter grade lower for cold start protection and cold efficiency but to get that winter weight down there you either have to lower the hot viscosity or widen the spread and the latter one has only come about from relatively recent advances in the formulations.
you only have to look at the environments of the USA and Europe to see why they favored 10w30 or 5w30 over our 20w40 or 15w50 we had in the past, on the whole Europe does not suffer the same extreme cold winter temps that the USA does in most of the states north of Florida. As such the Americans with limited viscosity spread had to lower the hot grade in order to protect their engines in the cold, even so and with modern oils our traverse really did not like its first minutes of running when i started it up at -25c this Jan in Colorado, lots of black smoke and very reluctant to move, enough that i checked the hand brake was off, thank god it was a rental!.
Nowdays with the advances you are seeing the Americans putting in things like 0w40 which is letting them keep the cold protection and even improve it from the 5w30 and 10w30's of the past, but also allowing them to put up the hot viscosity as well.
Its also worth noting that when the oil is at operating temp the viscosity is far lower than the cold winter viscosity, so at operating temp a 20w40 will have lower viscosity than a 10w30 would at cold, so its a bit of a misinformation to say that a 0w or 5w is too thin. At the other end viper track rats tend to go towards 15w50 as the higher load and operating temps of racing make the thicker oil better protection than the lower grades, they just have to be careful to get things up to temp.
Its also worth noting that things like the M1 0w40 were not around for gen 1 and 2 vipers and there is no doubt in my mind that the 0w40 Mobil 1 is a far higher standard oil than the mobil 1 10w30 just by looking at the state of it as it comes out of the engines, the 0w40 coming out of the ACR is much slipperier and has better integrity than the m1 10w30 that has ever come out of the GTS, of course they are very different engines too.
Personally i use the factory spec Mobil 1 0w40 in the 09 acr as its easy to get in the UK and not horrendously expensive from costco. Its not a big deal for me to put a few quarts of mobil 1 10w30 in my suitcases from my trips to the US and its dirt cheap in walmart or kmart, so that goes in the GTS. The corvette takes 5w30 which is easily available in castrol magnetec fully synth in the UK so despite factory fill being Mobil 1 that's what it gets (i changed before m1 5w30 was easily available in the UK)
If i wasn't bringing in the Mobil 1 10w30 cheaply from the USA i would be looking for alternate fully synth 10w30 oils, maybe going to the 5w30 mobil 1 or to 0w40 mobil 1 that mark uses but probably in that order.
All the above is internet bullst, so form your own opinion and do what you have got to do, but there is nothing special about the viper engine and it didn't take dodge long to dump mobil 1 and switch to penzoil when the chips were down. For years prior to that the internet was convinced that anything other than Mobil 1 would be instant destruction.
ps Hi Tom
Mobil 1 is the factory fill for gen 1-4 until chrysler went bust during gen4 production, at that point it was switched to penzoil. Chrysler dealers in the UK are now backed by Fiat. Go and ask them for PS fluid for a 97 and their mopar-fiat cross reference sheet will take you to PS fluid that is not supposedly compatible. Anyway i digress.
Mobil 1 is expensive for what you get, its good oil no doubt but something has to pay for all those stickers on F1 cars and billboards at race tracks, so, when "U gats 2 spend da $$$$$" your buying billboards for silverstone not protection for your engine.
Having said that no one using factory fill brand/spec oil changed as per schedule who has had a blown engine has thought, i wonder if it was that oil i put in 5 years ago in an emergency. On the flip side the internet will never get over that doubt should an engine blow whilst running on some other brand oil even if there is absolutely no evidence to suggest a different brand oil is to blame.
For peace of mind and IMHO the order would go
1) Factory brand specification
2) reputable brand meeting factory spec
3) reputable brand or factory brand meeting grade and vague spec (ie fully synth)
4) reputable brand fully synth slightly lower cold oil grade (5w or 0w)
options 1 and 2 i don't think you need worry too much about things going wrong but if they do you will always have doubt with option 2.
IMHO if it comes to a choice between an oil without the mopar spec number on it or a different grade then I'd give preference to the grade. The basis of that opinion is that the brands work with manufacturers to form specifications and certifications, So castrol working with ford will have magnatech certified for ford and a nice label on the jug, that doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't meet the spec of mopar or chevrolet, its just not tested as such. There are other brands out there that are not manufacturer affiliated and their oils carry lots of certifications, or you have mobil 1 which is used in a lot of prestige engines. What that tell me (IMHO) is that oil is oil and its all more or less the same and up to the job, but they are all carrying a standard grade spec which does change the oils characteristics so i would put more emphasis on that.
As for the grade, if you really must look to a different one then you have to consider what the implications are of that change. If you change the winter grade then the oil is slightly thinner at cold temps. It will run though the engine better at start up, especially in the cold, manufactures have been pushing the winter grade lower for cold start protection and cold efficiency but to get that winter weight down there you either have to lower the hot viscosity or widen the spread and the latter one has only come about from relatively recent advances in the formulations.
you only have to look at the environments of the USA and Europe to see why they favored 10w30 or 5w30 over our 20w40 or 15w50 we had in the past, on the whole Europe does not suffer the same extreme cold winter temps that the USA does in most of the states north of Florida. As such the Americans with limited viscosity spread had to lower the hot grade in order to protect their engines in the cold, even so and with modern oils our traverse really did not like its first minutes of running when i started it up at -25c this Jan in Colorado, lots of black smoke and very reluctant to move, enough that i checked the hand brake was off, thank god it was a rental!.
Nowdays with the advances you are seeing the Americans putting in things like 0w40 which is letting them keep the cold protection and even improve it from the 5w30 and 10w30's of the past, but also allowing them to put up the hot viscosity as well.
Its also worth noting that when the oil is at operating temp the viscosity is far lower than the cold winter viscosity, so at operating temp a 20w40 will have lower viscosity than a 10w30 would at cold, so its a bit of a misinformation to say that a 0w or 5w is too thin. At the other end viper track rats tend to go towards 15w50 as the higher load and operating temps of racing make the thicker oil better protection than the lower grades, they just have to be careful to get things up to temp.
Its also worth noting that things like the M1 0w40 were not around for gen 1 and 2 vipers and there is no doubt in my mind that the 0w40 Mobil 1 is a far higher standard oil than the mobil 1 10w30 just by looking at the state of it as it comes out of the engines, the 0w40 coming out of the ACR is much slipperier and has better integrity than the m1 10w30 that has ever come out of the GTS, of course they are very different engines too.
Personally i use the factory spec Mobil 1 0w40 in the 09 acr as its easy to get in the UK and not horrendously expensive from costco. Its not a big deal for me to put a few quarts of mobil 1 10w30 in my suitcases from my trips to the US and its dirt cheap in walmart or kmart, so that goes in the GTS. The corvette takes 5w30 which is easily available in castrol magnetec fully synth in the UK so despite factory fill being Mobil 1 that's what it gets (i changed before m1 5w30 was easily available in the UK)
If i wasn't bringing in the Mobil 1 10w30 cheaply from the USA i would be looking for alternate fully synth 10w30 oils, maybe going to the 5w30 mobil 1 or to 0w40 mobil 1 that mark uses but probably in that order.
All the above is internet bulls
t, so form your own opinion and do what you have got to do, but there is nothing special about the viper engine and it didn't take dodge long to dump mobil 1 and switch to penzoil when the chips were down. For years prior to that the internet was convinced that anything other than Mobil 1 would be instant destruction. ps Hi Tom
Edited by ViperDave on Thursday 16th April 11:22
musclemaniac said:
Ohhh who stood on your tail viperdave!?......yep seen a few truck engines to know what they look like.....man why not lpg it tooo and save on the gas $$??
I guess 22 pounds of cooking oil might work for 30 seconds but hey its cheap right?....I'd try baby oil too ;-)
I just looked at your website so what happened to " the spirit of respect and friendliness" that you are so keen to quoteI guess 22 pounds of cooking oil might work for 30 seconds but hey its cheap right?....I'd try baby oil too ;-)
........................All the above is internet bulls
t, so form your own opinion and do what you have got to do, but there is nothing special about the viper engine and it didn't take dodge long to dump mobil 1 and switch to penzoil when the chips were down. For years prior to that the internet was convinced that anything other than Mobil 1 would be instant destruction. .........................
Interesting discussion but the latter part was too technical for us novices!
On a serious note will Royal Purple in a Gen IV be OK?
altoplanohombre said:
........................All the above is internet bulls
t, so form your own opinion and do what you have got to do, but there is nothing special about the viper engine and it didn't take dodge long to dump mobil 1 and switch to penzoil when the chips were down. For years prior to that the internet was convinced that anything other than Mobil 1 would be instant destruction. .........................
Interesting discussion but the latter part was too technical for us novices!
On a serious note will Royal Purple in a Gen IV be OK?
Whilst other grades of royal purple meet the MS-6395 spec the gen IV service manual calls for, the royal purple 0w40 grade which the gen IV needs doesn't positively say it meets the spec according to the data sheet, however it is api approved so it would fall into probably ok but you will never know if your engine has a lubrication issue if the oil was the cause.
But the real question would be why would you bother,
1) its harder to get in the UK
2) its more expensive than Mobil 1 0w40 in the UK
But again its all internet bulls
t so make up your own mind and don't whinge to me when your engine goes bangEdited by ViperDave on Friday 17th April 16:49
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