What used naked bike?

[LunarOne]

I have the urge to buy another bike.

I'm 50 later this year and got my licence 25 years ago. In that time, I've only had two bikes - a Bandit 600 naked (which I loved) and a VFR800 5th gen - the one before VTEC which I still own but never really gelled with. I love the sound of the V-four on song, but I don't love the weight on my wrists. Due to limited use, the VFR needs some work - it won't idle reliably when warm and I'm told the fuel pressure drops off at idle, and the injectors are likely blocked.

But I no longer commute and no longer have any family to look after, so I barely drive anywhere these days - I just do a 2-3 week road trip in my Boxster around nicer bits of Europe once a year on my own. When I do drive in the UK, I'm immensely frustrated by the glacial pace of traffic in my part of north west Surrey. All the NSLs have become 40s, and all the drivers seem to have become brain-dead as a result and some barely manage 30 on these roads. So once again, I'm drawn to biking, where I can blat past all the automatons doing their thing in slow motion. On the one hand, I'm tempted to buy an old Blackbird. I'm about 179cm (5'11") but a fatty at about 125Kg so I'm sure that could handle my weight. But on the other hand, I'm much more drawn to naked bikes - the kind with round chrome headlights rather than the super-modern-looking ones. If it weren't for that I'd have gone straight for a Tuono V4.

In 2015 I test-rode a BMW RnineT and really liked it, apart from the lack of a top end that a four cylinder bike tends to have, and the feeble exhaust note. I remember being loaned a CB900 by Honda Chiswick once when my VFR went in for a service, and finding it nowhere near as powerful as I thought a bike with a Fireblade engine (albeit detuned) would be but it felt very easy to ride and I thought I might like one. I also test rode a new GSX1400 at one point and found it totally listless.

I don't have much of a clue about bikes from Yamaha, Kawasaki, Triumph or Ducati.

I'm not a speed demon in that I don't care about triple figure speeds. I don't do track days, get my knee down, do wheelies or ride like a twit. But I do love twisties and I love a good exhaust note.

I don't care too much about ULEZ although compliance would be a bonus as I'm only a few miles from the outer edge of the London zone, and I don't care too much about age or gizmos like ABS. I will only ever ride on dry days.

I've found researching this to be tricky - I haven't kept up on what bikes are out there for about 20 years, and everything about naked bikes seems to focus on the middleweights an I think I want more power. Can anyone suggest a naked bike on the more traditional-looking side of things, which is nimble enough not to feel crap in the twisties, and has a bit of power? Something in the 110-160bhp range would probably suit. Thanks!

[LunarOne]

Thanks. I didn't really have a budget in mind but I was imagining spending a couple of thousand on an older bike. I know you can find decent CB900s at that sort of money. But I'd have to spend around £6k for an r nineT.

How do Monsters and Triumphs cope with not being ridden 8 months of the year?

[LunarOne]

stang65 said:

Surprised you didn't like the CB900. I have a VFR800 (pre-VTEC) and switched to a CB900 and it was better in every way except weather protection (not least getting rid of the awful linked brakes). Still have the Hornet whereas the VFR800 lasted a year.

I did like the CB900 but it felt less powerful than expected. But if I can find a nice one at the right price I'll probably get one.

stang65 said:

What about a CB1000R? I must admit to keep looking at them as 145ish hp is plenty, and most other nakeds don't look anywhere near as nice (and half the people who recommend nakeds suggest Tuonos and so on that aren't even naked!). Honda reliability and build quality has a lot going for it.

I don't think I was aware of this one. At first glance it looks too much like a Transformer and not retro enough but I might warm to it. I should have put this in my OP, but I'm definitely aiming at older bikes rather than anything too new. I try to stay off Facebook, but any time I look at my local groups I see that bike theft is rife in my area. It probably is everywhere. I live in a nice area and have a secure garage, but I also travel for work quite a bit so would prefer not to put anything too irresistible to scrotes in there.

[LunarOne]

Went to a Triumph dealer earlier today to have a look at the speed twin 1200. It's got the sort of look that I like but the exhaust note wasn't anything to write home about. I'll have a look to see if I can find any examples of a partially unmuted bike. I don't want a stupidly loud exhaust, but a nice exhaust tone is what really gets my blood pumping when it comes to anything automotive.

I also went to a BMW dealer and had a look at the R12 nineT which seems like a stupid name. But that bike with the option 719 with gold and accents and gold spoked wheels really does it for me. But I was thinking of finding a bike for £3-6k and now I'm going mad and looking at a £17k new bike. I suppose I could spend £17k if it were my primary transport, but it's really not going to be anything like that. Just a toy for sunny days when I need a bit of escapism.

I'm going to see if I can find a Ducati Monster for sale somewhere. I think they look great, but for some reason I am looking at twins when I sort of decided I wanted a four cylinder. Should I be looking at an old Bandit 1200? Right price, right look, but maybe a pile of rusty bolts by now.

I think I really need to narrow down what I really want and then hunt for that..

[LunarOne]

Stevemr said:

If you thought a GSX14 was bland, you won’t want a bandit!
B king?

Except I had a Bandit 600 and loved it. Maybe the lack of power meant I could pin the throttle often and listen to the revs build without ending up at silly speeds. Only it didn't love my weight and I constantly bottomed out the non-adjustable front suspension and then ended up doing unintentional stoppies. Which would be fine if that was something I was intending!

The GSX1400 was neither fast accelerating, nor did I feel like it handled well. It just felt unnecessarily slow and heavy. It was brand new and I didn't want to rev the nuts off it as it wasn't even run in, but I didn't get the feeling that revs were the answer on that bike. But I did like the way it looked and from memory it was on the more comfortable side of things. But then it was more than 20 years ago and my memory is clouded by the passage of time.

[LunarOne]

stang65 said:

OP, are you sure you're not confusing performance with the feel of performance? A lot of the bikes you don't like, Hornet 900, GSXR1400 etc. have quite linear power delivery. Yet you liked a Bandit 600 which is quite peaky. Are you saying you want a certain power delivery, that top end hit? I hated my VFR800FiX (the first 800) as it had no low down and a lot less mid-range than the VFR750, but it did have a top end gain...so same thing, but you've kept yours.

If I've given the impression that I didn't like the CB900, then I've done so mistakenly. I really DID like it and in fact I'm still scouring autotrader bikes and MCN classifieds daily for a nice unmolested one within a reasonable distance. I don't mind aftermarket cans but I'm not a fan of weird headlight arrangements. All I said was that it didn't feel nearly as fast as I expected. Perhaps you've hit the nail on the head and that the linear power delivery tricks my senses. But I alone am the weight of two fully grown adults, so that's going to blunt the performance of any bike. As you guess, I enjoyed the revvy nature of the Bandit 600 and I like it on the VFR, along with that sound.

Maybe if I can find a GSX1400 I'll try one again. The Australian video of the GSX1400 beating the R1 off the line is impressive and someone above mentioned a naked version of the Super Blackbird, the X11. I'd forgotten those existed and I really like the idea.

How does buying a bike from a private seller work? My bikes both came from dealers who were happy to let me take a test ride. If I were a private seller, I'm not sure I'd want to give a stranger the keys to my bike - at least not without a deposit. And then there's insurance. Am I right that test-riding a bike from a private seller is a rare thing?

[LunarOne]

Fitz666 said:

If you like a V4 have you considered a Vmax?

I have. But it seems more of a cruiser and less of a muscly naked bike and I'm not looking for anything so laid back. I heard they don't go round corners, and I rather like going round corners! Honestly no idea if that's true. Having said that, I used to ogle one that was parked up near my hotel in the south of France many years ago and I was baffled by the baffled exhausts. I have a vague memory of the VMax being the fastest accelerating bike on the planet, but if that was ever true it would have been back in the days before modern bikes existed.

So probably not in contention. I'm looking for something good at converting traffic in front of me into traffic behind me. So decent manoeuvrability is as much of a must as a decent turn of acceleration.

[LunarOne]

ChocolateFrog said:

The last bike I bought privately he let me take it up and down the street

Dodgy ground though if the buyer does drop it.

I think it's not unreasonable to ask for the asking price in hand before a test ride and if you drop it you bought it.

I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

[LunarOne]

I'm putting my plan into action about a year later than I thought. My VFR is back to running well and all MOTed. It just needs a fresh set of tyres as the ones on it are 14 years old. The fuel pressure dropping and clogged injectors was a complete fabrication by the bike repair specialist. They failed to replace little cable retainers under the tank and there are now a couple of screws missing from the airbox. I won't be using them again. I took off the airbox, cleaned the throttle bodies, bought an injector testing kid, made a fuel line adfaptor to test fuel pressure, took the fuel pump out of the tank. Tested all the sensors that I could. In the end, the only thing needed was a couple of spark plugs. They seemed to test okay when cold but stopped sparking as soon as they got warm. I've now replaced all four plugs, the VFR is back to running perfectly.

But I still have a naked bike on my shopping list. On the one hand I'm sorely tempted by a shiny but high mileage Bandit 1200 on sale at a bike dealer not particularly close to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QwARvmV1uI

However, I test-rode two Triumph demonstrators today at West London Triumph (West Byfleet).

First, the Speed Twin 1200 RS with orange paint scheme. I really liked the low down grunt and the thumping soundtrack while on the throttle, and it was very confidence-inspiring both at very low speeds when slipping the clutch and at higher speeds. Only I think I would need to rewire my brain because it ran out of revs long before I felt ready to change gear when pressing on. I guess I would need to get used to surfing the wave or torque and not expecting things to happen higher up in the rev range. It's very much like the r-nineT that I test rode a decade ago but didn't buy. I regret that with hindsight.

The riding position felt very relaxed and upright which I liked, but the narrow seat (especially with the tank in my crotch) made for a sore bum pretty quickly. But I felt the same way with the BMW. I'm sure that's just because I haven't been riding much lately, and because my VFR has a wide, comfy seat and puts much more of my weight onto the bars.

The second bike I rode was the Speed Triple 1200 RS. What a difference to the Speed Twin! I hadn't looked up too much about either bike beforehand because I didn't want knowledge of the specs to cloud my judgment. What a bike. Certainly the fastest thing on two wheels that I've ever ridden. I even popped an accidental wheelie when reaching for the "Home" button with my right thumb. I tweaked the throttle accidentally and the front wheel just popped up. Not something I was expecting or am equipped to deal with. Luckily it came back to earth without any drama, but it set me on edge for the rest of the ride. I found the clutch quite difficult to judge when moving off from a standstill, so I stalled it embarrassingly in the middle of exiting a junction. Dammit. When on song the sound of that triple was quite addictive, but I didn't have the opportunity to really open it up since Surrey CC seem to have installed average speed cameras on lots of the roads around Weybridge and I didn't have enough time to get to some really open roads. But It's certainly too much bike for me, now that I know what kind of power it makes. I think I would be better suited with a less powerful one, but I wanted to see what the best triple had to offer.

I've now got to go on a business trip for a week, so there will be no riding at all (apart from a Parisian electric Yego scooter perhaps) so I'll be mulling it over. I wish the Speed Twin didn't have a single digital clock. I see that the older model has twin traditional clocks so I'm more likely to go for a second hand bike if I choose the Speed Twin. I don't really care about quickshifters and I'm probably not experienced enough to know the difference between the posh suspension on the RS or the standard stuff on the unenhanced bike...

[LunarOne]

MurderousCrow said:

carinaman said:

From subsequent posts it seems the VFR has been mended having been taken to another motorcycle mechanic.

Yeah I saw that, am I missing something? It's been known to happen lol.

Nope actually I worked on it myself, tearing my hair out considering what the repairshop had told me. So I went through everything with a fine toothed comb. It's only when I decided to pull the aprk plug leads while it was trying to idle (with help from the throttle and having dialled the idle screw in as far as it would go) that I realised that the rear two cylinders weren't doing anything. That explains why the exhaust smelled very fuelly. Rich running is a common symptom of a faulty fuel pressure regulator. To get a replacement FPR, throttle bodies and injectors, I bought a complete throttle body with injectors, FPR and fast idle wax unit (another possible cause) from ebay. It's also known that V4s can be tricky to diagnose bad firing from sound alone as they sound similar on two cylinders as they do on four cylinders. None of it was needed in the end but I'll keep the parts as spares.

The only issue remaining is a slightly high idle that remains even though I've wound the idle screw all the way out. But I'd been fiddling with the throttle body balancing screws and I found a random superbike surgery video that tells me that this is likely the cause, so I'll fix that as soon as I can get some carb synchronisation gauges. The VFR now has just over 7050 miles on the clock and is in mint condition so I have no intention of streetfightering it. I'd like to keep it all original.

But for the naked bike I want something with more torque and possible faster steering. The Speed Twin certainly fits the bill, but I still have the hankering for an inline-four musclebike. The Kwak 900 that has been mentioned a few times sounds interesting and it seems I misjudged the GSX1400 although I wouldn't call that nimble. And yes, the Honda X11 (naked Blackbird) is also of interest although I doubt that will be more nimble than the VFR.

A few photos of the VFR in bits and then being MOTed the other Sunday.

[LunarOne]

I guess I was sort of hoping that a big inline four might feel torquey at the bottom end without sacrificing the top end. Back in the day I heard lots of stories of the Bandit 1200 having gobs of torque. Never tried one. But the GSX1400 had decent torque but I felt it didn't have much top-end go.

Let me rephrase my ask then. What naked bike has a decent amount of bottom-end torque (not necessarily as much as a twin) but also goes well at the top end? Maybe the X11 is what I want but never ridden it (or a Blackbird).

I predict a chorus of "get an old Speed triple"!

[LunarOne]

KTMsm said:

LunarOne said:

I predict a chorus of "get an old Speed triple"!

Essentially the question you're asking is "what fits between a twin and a four-cylinder"

No, what I think I'm asking is for you lot to convince me that I really need to buy more than one bike because what i want doesn't exist in a single bike!

[LunarOne]

MurderousCrow said:

LunarOne said:

I'm going to see if I can find a Ducati Monster for sale somewhere. I think they look great, but for some reason I am looking at twins when I sort of decided I wanted a four cylinder. Should I be looking at an old Bandit 1200? Right price, right look, but maybe a pile of rusty bolts by now.

I think I really need to narrow down what I really want and then hunt for that..

Mods - not sure if allowed so apologies, please delete if not ok

OP - a pal is selling his 2018 monster with all the bells and whistles on, although I've never seen the bike it will be well cared-for. PM me if you want info.

Thanks for the offer, but I would not want to buy a bike privately unless I were sure it's what I wanted. And I wouldn't want to ask a private seller to ride their bike just to see if it's something I fancied. If it were a friend then it would be different, but a friend of someone on the internet is a different matter. A dealer on the other hand is different. And not all dealers offer test-rides! I personally wouldn't buy from one unless I knew the model of bike well already.

[LunarOne]

Any thoughts on the mid 1990s CB1000 "Big One"? Went to look at a fairly high mileage example offered very local to me. Condition seemed decent for its age, but certainly no garage queen. I wasn't able to ride it other than up and down the residential close where the seller lived, so I couldn't really do more than 25mph max. No apparent leaks, no smoke from exhaust and no strange noises were apparent although it never got up to temperature.

I liked the look of it, but it feels like a lot of money for the miles. But if they have a decent reputation and don't suffer too badly from high mileage, then I may go back to it. It's not going to be for transport - just a bit of weekend riding - maybe 1500 miles a year max.