Discussion
Thought I get a concensus on the following near miss.
I was riding down the A33 this morning, single carridgeway behind a box van (7 tonne jobby). Round a slight left hand band by hugging the kerb I could see up the inside of the van. There was a number of cars and bike comming the other way, hence I dropped back (30 feet or so) and positioned myself 3/4's of the way from the kerb to the white line. Happily waiting for the cars and bike to pass before moving into an overtaking posistion and having another look.
Next thing I know is that there's a bike comming toward me with a closing speed of about 120-140, countersteer hard left for me and I guess we miss by about a foot. From what I can tell he timed his run to coincide with a gap appearing between the car in front of him and the lorry infront of me. Obviously unaware there was a bike behind the van.
Should I have done anything different. Other than right foot up, jousting style.
Thoughts appreciated.
I was riding down the A33 this morning, single carridgeway behind a box van (7 tonne jobby). Round a slight left hand band by hugging the kerb I could see up the inside of the van. There was a number of cars and bike comming the other way, hence I dropped back (30 feet or so) and positioned myself 3/4's of the way from the kerb to the white line. Happily waiting for the cars and bike to pass before moving into an overtaking posistion and having another look.
Next thing I know is that there's a bike comming toward me with a closing speed of about 120-140, countersteer hard left for me and I guess we miss by about a foot. From what I can tell he timed his run to coincide with a gap appearing between the car in front of him and the lorry infront of me. Obviously unaware there was a bike behind the van.
Should I have done anything different. Other than right foot up, jousting style.
Thoughts appreciated.
Tough one without seeing the corner in question. I'd ask
- Did you see the bike in the oncoming traffic and was he positioned for an overtake? Could you have anticipated his move?
- When you looked up the inside, was the road ahead clear after that gaggle of cars?
- Why did you move away from the optimal viewing position up the inside - did the corner straighten out?
- Was your 30 foot distance to the van appropriate for speed and conditions (2 second rule applies)
- If you had moved more to the right, and perhaps further back, would you have had more visibility/been more visible to oncoming traffic, particularly given the large vehicle in front of you?
My motto - never be surprised. Although that said, I surprised myself this morning. I got to bed at 4am due to work, got up at 8am, quick shower and rode in. From Twickenham to Mayfair took me less than 25 minutes in the rush hour
. It normally takes 30-35 minutes and I know the lack of sleep must have affected my judgement. Oh well, I've got a day of advanced trainnig in a couple of weeks which should remind me of how I should be riding.
Sorry to all the other bikers I slid by when on my charge. At least I wasn't acting quite as dangerously as the chap on the Brutale - jeans, vest, open helmet, no gloves, and merrily playing chicken with cars into traffic islands and trying to squeeze through narrow (and narrowing) van gaps.
- Did you see the bike in the oncoming traffic and was he positioned for an overtake? Could you have anticipated his move?
- When you looked up the inside, was the road ahead clear after that gaggle of cars?
- Why did you move away from the optimal viewing position up the inside - did the corner straighten out?
- Was your 30 foot distance to the van appropriate for speed and conditions (2 second rule applies)
- If you had moved more to the right, and perhaps further back, would you have had more visibility/been more visible to oncoming traffic, particularly given the large vehicle in front of you?
My motto - never be surprised. Although that said, I surprised myself this morning. I got to bed at 4am due to work, got up at 8am, quick shower and rode in. From Twickenham to Mayfair took me less than 25 minutes in the rush hour
. It normally takes 30-35 minutes and I know the lack of sleep must have affected my judgement. Oh well, I've got a day of advanced trainnig in a couple of weeks which should remind me of how I should be riding. Sorry to all the other bikers I slid by when on my charge. At least I wasn't acting quite as dangerously as the chap on the Brutale - jeans, vest, open helmet, no gloves, and merrily playing chicken with cars into traffic islands and trying to squeeze through narrow (and narrowing) van gaps.
- Did you see the bike in the oncoming traffic and was he positioned for an overtake? Could you have anticipated his move?
He wasn't positioned for an overtake, was about 300m ahead when I first saw him.
- When you looked up the inside, was the road ahead clear after that gaggle of cars?
Yes, 100m gap after last car (which was the bike) to the next corner.
- Why did you move away from the optimal viewing position up the inside - did the corner straighten out?
Yes corner straightened, 400m later it bends sharp left again.
- Was your 30 foot distance to the van appropriate for speed and conditions (2 second rule applies)
I would consider it appopriate, 1.5 seconds or so.
- If you had moved more to the right, and perhaps further back, would you have had more visibility/been more visible to oncoming traffic, particularly given the large vehicle in front of you?
Yes although I was anticipating the bike comming the other way being on the white line hence my reluctance to move out further.
Thanks guys.
I'm still a little concerned that I did all I've been taught and still only missed a serious impact by inches.
Would anyone have done anything additional / different. I know its hard from a description but all comments greatfully recieved and I won't be arguing with any of them.
I'm still a little concerned that I did all I've been taught and still only missed a serious impact by inches.
Would anyone have done anything additional / different. I know its hard from a description but all comments greatfully recieved and I won't be arguing with any of them.
Only thing I can think of is if there was any way to make yourself visible to the other biker any earlier? Is it possible that by hanging back behind the van/lorry or whatever that you were missed where if you took a different position he/she'd have seen you. Could be completely wrong as I wasn't there, but interested to hear what you think.
Steve.
Steve.
Exactly that approach is whats been bugging me all day. If I'd hung back and sat nearer the white line the visability would have been better, no question about it. However, given I got to see the bike headlights down the inside of the van for less than a second I had little idea about what speed he was doing and when he would come past. Hence I didn't want to move out at exactly the wrong moment.
Guess I'm gonna have to resign myself to there being no right answer.
Guess I'm gonna have to resign myself to there being no right answer.
Sounds like pretty good riding to me.
The only thing that you can learn from this is that having taken the first look you can't assume things to go as you had planned at that time.
In the interval the bike (could have been a car) decided to go for an overtake and had not seen you. So next time you will take the look, formulate the plan, and then sit a little further back from the box van so that you have more room and time to evaluate, accelarate and committ.
enjoy
The only thing that you can learn from this is that having taken the first look you can't assume things to go as you had planned at that time.
In the interval the bike (could have been a car) decided to go for an overtake and had not seen you. So next time you will take the look, formulate the plan, and then sit a little further back from the box van so that you have more room and time to evaluate, accelarate and committ.
enjoy
advanced riding would tell you to be positioned on the centre line or even on the opposite side of the road for a left hand bend to maximise visibility round the bend, that is where i would've been. This would seem scary initially but when you get the hang of it it makes the world of difference to your speed round bend.
quoting from Motorcycle ROADCRAFT, the police riders handbook to better motorcycling. it says "Left Hand bends - position yourself towards the centre line so that you get an early view round the bend. Before you adopt this position consider:
- apporaching traffic and other ofside dangers which require greater margin of safety
- whether your position might mislead other traffic as to your intentions
- whether any advantage would be gained at low speed or on an open bend.
dunno if thats any help in your situation, but i can definately recommend advanced tuition.
quoting from Motorcycle ROADCRAFT, the police riders handbook to better motorcycling. it says "Left Hand bends - position yourself towards the centre line so that you get an early view round the bend. Before you adopt this position consider:
- apporaching traffic and other ofside dangers which require greater margin of safety
- whether your position might mislead other traffic as to your intentions
- whether any advantage would be gained at low speed or on an open bend.
dunno if thats any help in your situation, but i can definately recommend advanced tuition.
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