I'm just crap at riding the twisties - HELP
Discussion
Have had my licence for 3 years (direct access) and had a VFR800 for the first 2. Went on a blast round Wales on the VFR with a biking group and was happy to be able to keep up with the lead riders (on blades, R1s, RSVs) but kept grinding out the pegs due to the VFR below so low slung.
Decided it's time for a change so bought a nice new shiny GSXR750 (K2) last summer. I love the bike but can't seem to get to grips with riding it as well as I did the VFR. Went out last weekend, for example, for a 300mile blast and was all over the place on the corners. I used to be able to get the VFR right over on corners, but am crap with the gixxer.
Basically, I am very innexperienced in general and need some advanced lessons. I have seen lots advertised (ex-police riders doing half-day/full day/multi-day 1-1 tuition etc) but don't know if they are really any good. Has anyone done one of these courses they would recommend?
I have done a couple of track days (GSXR600s at Mallory Park and RSV1000s at Knockhill) and I was fine on the track (well it's much easier when we're all going the same direction etc) but can't seem to ride the gixxer in a similar way on the road, so am keen to do road-based training of some sorts.
Any ideas? I live in London so need something in the south.
Cheers
Decided it's time for a change so bought a nice new shiny GSXR750 (K2) last summer. I love the bike but can't seem to get to grips with riding it as well as I did the VFR. Went out last weekend, for example, for a 300mile blast and was all over the place on the corners. I used to be able to get the VFR right over on corners, but am crap with the gixxer.
Basically, I am very innexperienced in general and need some advanced lessons. I have seen lots advertised (ex-police riders doing half-day/full day/multi-day 1-1 tuition etc) but don't know if they are really any good. Has anyone done one of these courses they would recommend?
I have done a couple of track days (GSXR600s at Mallory Park and RSV1000s at Knockhill) and I was fine on the track (well it's much easier when we're all going the same direction etc) but can't seem to ride the gixxer in a similar way on the road, so am keen to do road-based training of some sorts.
Any ideas? I live in London so need something in the south.
Cheers
I've done a couple of days with Rapid Training www.rapidtraining.co.uk/ , all serving or ex-plod Class 1 bikers. What you'll learn about positioning, observation and anticipation is worth a huge amount. Some also do track training where they do the high-speed and extreme lean stuff.
If your OK on a track, its probably not you.
I would have a play with your suspension, the bike will give good feed back and confidence if its set right. Out of the box it is probably way off for your weight, and likely to not even be right for anybody.
if its not tipping into the bends, Its possibly set too hard. take it to a bike suspension firm and get your settings matched to your weight.
I would have a play with your suspension, the bike will give good feed back and confidence if its set right. Out of the box it is probably way off for your weight, and likely to not even be right for anybody.
if its not tipping into the bends, Its possibly set too hard. take it to a bike suspension firm and get your settings matched to your weight.
Definately sounds like suspension settings. Good settings give feel and feedback, delivering the confidence you had on your VFR.
There's a good suspension setup guide by Nial McKenzee in this months "Two" magazine.
You can also see what your suspension should be (and also learn how to set it up) here:
www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_susp_settings/
There's a good suspension setup guide by Nial McKenzee in this months "Two" magazine.
You can also see what your suspension should be (and also learn how to set it up) here:
www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_susp_settings/
goodlife said: Definately sounds like suspension settings. Good settings give feel and feedback, delivering the confidence you had on your VFR.
There's a good suspension setup guide by Nial McKenzee in this months "Two" magazine.
You can also see what your suspension should be (and also learn how to set it up) here:
www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_susp_settings/
Good link - but it doesn't cover ZXR400s - can anyone recommend a site or settings?
Thanks all for the replies. It's interesting that you feel it may be the suspension settings as last week a particularly bumpy piece of A-road made me feel like I was riding a space-hopper, and I almost bounced off the road altogether. I definitely struggle to tip the bike into corners, and generally feel very uncomfortable doing so.
My problem is inexperience for sure, as I have no idea what sort of feeling and feedback the bike should be giving me tipping into corners (as I've never felt it, so have no benchmark). This too makes me very reluctant to play with the suspension settings as I am a mechanical muppet and don't have a clue.
I guess trial and error, and brining my tools to a nice section of twisties and go over and over the same bends whilst playing with the setting is perhaps the answer.
What I need is some expert help. Any ideas on where I could take the bike to get help with my suspension?
My problem is inexperience for sure, as I have no idea what sort of feeling and feedback the bike should be giving me tipping into corners (as I've never felt it, so have no benchmark). This too makes me very reluctant to play with the suspension settings as I am a mechanical muppet and don't have a clue.
I guess trial and error, and brining my tools to a nice section of twisties and go over and over the same bends whilst playing with the setting is perhaps the answer.
What I need is some expert help. Any ideas on where I could take the bike to get help with my suspension?
Geoff,
I'm no expert, but have managed to fix 95% of suspension issues with just a screwdriver and spanner! You just need to remember that it's impossible to set a road bike up to be unrideable. Manufacturers don't allow us mortals the suspension leeway to do so. This means that *anything* you do will make a difference, either better, or worse. As long as you keep a record of where you started, then you can always go back if the bike feels worse. Like you, I had no idea what rebound or compression did, or how they would affect the bike - or whether a muppet like me could tell the difference if they were adjusted! But believe me, give yourself an hour and you will notice a big difference.
In your case, I'd say the first thing you should do is increase (make harder) the amount of rebound on the front forks. rebound controls the rate at which the forks spring back after being compressed. If there is too little, then the noticable signs are 'bouncing' in corners, and a 'vagueness' when tipping into the corner. You've mentioned both of those, so my money's on that. Your manual should be able to tell you where the adjuster is. Try cranking that up and go out again.
Hope it helps!
I'm no expert, but have managed to fix 95% of suspension issues with just a screwdriver and spanner! You just need to remember that it's impossible to set a road bike up to be unrideable. Manufacturers don't allow us mortals the suspension leeway to do so. This means that *anything* you do will make a difference, either better, or worse. As long as you keep a record of where you started, then you can always go back if the bike feels worse. Like you, I had no idea what rebound or compression did, or how they would affect the bike - or whether a muppet like me could tell the difference if they were adjusted! But believe me, give yourself an hour and you will notice a big difference.
In your case, I'd say the first thing you should do is increase (make harder) the amount of rebound on the front forks. rebound controls the rate at which the forks spring back after being compressed. If there is too little, then the noticable signs are 'bouncing' in corners, and a 'vagueness' when tipping into the corner. You've mentioned both of those, so my money's on that. Your manual should be able to tell you where the adjuster is. Try cranking that up and go out again.
Hope it helps!
Gixxer,
I have a 99 gsx-r 750 and I can confirm it is harder to ride than say somthing like a CBR 600 (never riden a VFR)
It all makes sense the faster you go, but you need the confidence to go that fast in the first place. going round a corner at say 60 may feel strange and vague at the front go round the same corner at lets just say faster
and it will feel rock solid and stable.
I would recogmend setting the suspension back to the manual regomendation and then quarter turn at a time clockwise on the compresion and rebound until you feel happy. remember its easy to do and can always be put back quickly.
After you have done that you will enjoy embarasing all the 1000 boys as you waste them! Makes me laugh every time as they come up to me with puzzled faces and ask me why its so fast its only a 750
I have a 99 gsx-r 750 and I can confirm it is harder to ride than say somthing like a CBR 600 (never riden a VFR)
It all makes sense the faster you go, but you need the confidence to go that fast in the first place. going round a corner at say 60 may feel strange and vague at the front go round the same corner at lets just say faster
and it will feel rock solid and stable. I would recogmend setting the suspension back to the manual regomendation and then quarter turn at a time clockwise on the compresion and rebound until you feel happy. remember its easy to do and can always be put back quickly.
After you have done that you will enjoy embarasing all the 1000 boys as you waste them! Makes me laugh every time as they come up to me with puzzled faces and ask me why its so fast its only a 750
Hiya - Where abouts are you? if you don't want to do it yourself and live in the London area then you could try James at Set-up engineering in Wandsworth (make sure it is him tho) or Dave Rossiter who used to work at First Bike in Tooting (I can give you his number if you want) - both are very good & money well spent.
I have had heaps of problems with suspension - bikes are made for 'Mr Average 13stone' when you are only 8 stone things just don't work!! I usually change to Hyperpro Springs Damper & shock when I get a new bike.
Good Luck!
I have had heaps of problems with suspension - bikes are made for 'Mr Average 13stone' when you are only 8 stone things just don't work!! I usually change to Hyperpro Springs Damper & shock when I get a new bike.
Good Luck!
Have a look at www.ridedrive.co.uk (for bike and car courses) or www.rapidtraining.co.uk (especially aimed at performance bikes). They are both based in the Thames Valley area and are easily accessible. Rapid training are good for bike stuff.
>> Edited by madcop on Wednesday 7th May 20:34
>> Edited by madcop on Wednesday 7th May 20:34
for geoff, and anyone listening, A good baseline to set a GSXR1000 (nearly a 750) for fast road is :
stock from shop
f preload flush with 4th ring from top
f compression 10 clicks from hard
f rebound 6 clicks from hard
r preload 21mm wound down
r compression 8 clicks from hard
r rebound 7 click from hard
cold tyres f 36psi r 42psi
10 stone rider
f preload flush with 2nd ring from top
f compression 9 clicks from hard
f rebound 6 clicks from hard
r preload 21mm wound down
r compression 5 clicks from hard
r rebound 2 click from hard
cold tyres f 36psi r 37psi
12.5 stone rider
f preload flush with 1st ring from top
rest as stock
16 stone rider
f preload flush with 1st ring from top
f compression 8 clicks from hard
f rebound 6 clicks from hard
r preload 23mm wound down
r compression 3 clicks from hard
r rebound 5 click from hard
cold tyres f 33psi r 37psi
then alter to suit. give yourself time to get used to the changes, it will feel odd for a while, its not what your used to.
Hope that helps
stock from shop
f preload flush with 4th ring from top
f compression 10 clicks from hard
f rebound 6 clicks from hard
r preload 21mm wound down
r compression 8 clicks from hard
r rebound 7 click from hard
cold tyres f 36psi r 42psi
10 stone rider
f preload flush with 2nd ring from top
f compression 9 clicks from hard
f rebound 6 clicks from hard
r preload 21mm wound down
r compression 5 clicks from hard
r rebound 2 click from hard
cold tyres f 36psi r 37psi
12.5 stone rider
f preload flush with 1st ring from top
rest as stock
16 stone rider
f preload flush with 1st ring from top
f compression 8 clicks from hard
f rebound 6 clicks from hard
r preload 23mm wound down
r compression 3 clicks from hard
r rebound 5 click from hard
cold tyres f 33psi r 37psi
then alter to suit. give yourself time to get used to the changes, it will feel odd for a while, its not what your used to.
Hope that helps
Cheers for all the help, and in reply to some of the specific posts:
Goodlife - I haven't had a chance to have a go at modifying the set-up yet. Too much bloody work on at the moment unfortunately. I will however, and report back. Thanks for the interest.
954girlie - I live in Clapham so will definitely give James at Set-Up Engineering a call. I found their website (www.setupengineering.com/ if anyone else is interested). Thanks for the info.
S2ooz - cheers for the suspension settings, and great they are split out by weight. These will come in very handy thanks.
Today I picked up a copy of this months "Performance Bikes" and low-and-behold it contains a free suspension set-up manual that covers "every major sportsbike" including mine!!! If anyone is interested, this manual covers specific settings for:
* Aprilia RS250
* Aprilia RSV1000 Mille
* Ducati 748SP
* Ducati 996/996S
* Honda CBR600F
* Honda Fireblade
* Honda VFR800
* Honda VTR Firestorm
* Honda VTR1000 SP1
* Kwak ZX-6R
* Kwak ZX-7R
* Kwak ZX-9R
* Suzuki GSX-R600
* Suzuki GSX-R750
* Suzuki GSX-R1000
* Suzuki TL1000S
* Suzuki TL1000R
* Suzuki Hayabusa
* Triumph TT600
* Triumph T595
* Triumph T955i
* Yamaha Fazer 600
* Yamaha Thundercat
* Yamaha R6
* Yamaha YZF750
* Yamaha Thunderace
* Yamaha R1
Bonza!
>> Edited by gixxer1000 on Thursday 8th May 23:04
>> Edited by gixxer1000 on Thursday 8th May 23:05
Goodlife - I haven't had a chance to have a go at modifying the set-up yet. Too much bloody work on at the moment unfortunately. I will however, and report back. Thanks for the interest.
954girlie - I live in Clapham so will definitely give James at Set-Up Engineering a call. I found their website (www.setupengineering.com/ if anyone else is interested). Thanks for the info.
S2ooz - cheers for the suspension settings, and great they are split out by weight. These will come in very handy thanks.
Today I picked up a copy of this months "Performance Bikes" and low-and-behold it contains a free suspension set-up manual that covers "every major sportsbike" including mine!!! If anyone is interested, this manual covers specific settings for:
* Aprilia RS250
* Aprilia RSV1000 Mille
* Ducati 748SP
* Ducati 996/996S
* Honda CBR600F
* Honda Fireblade
* Honda VFR800
* Honda VTR Firestorm
* Honda VTR1000 SP1
* Kwak ZX-6R
* Kwak ZX-7R
* Kwak ZX-9R
* Suzuki GSX-R600
* Suzuki GSX-R750
* Suzuki GSX-R1000
* Suzuki TL1000S
* Suzuki TL1000R
* Suzuki Hayabusa
* Triumph TT600
* Triumph T595
* Triumph T955i
* Yamaha Fazer 600
* Yamaha Thundercat
* Yamaha R6
* Yamaha YZF750
* Yamaha Thunderace
* Yamaha R1
Bonza!
>> Edited by gixxer1000 on Thursday 8th May 23:04
>> Edited by gixxer1000 on Thursday 8th May 23:05
Finally got the suspension sorted. Went to www.setupengineering.com/ where James did a sterling job of sorting things out. I had a "crate set-up" done, which pretty much covers everything.
Turns out that good old Riossi (Motorcycle City at the time) made a pigs arse of setting the bike up in the first place, and fundamendal things like the wheels being out of line, and the rear shock having only 4psi (should be 12) were causing my problems.
Had this done yesterday and have yet to take the bike out for a proper thrash, but the burn I did go for when I left set-up engineering gave me a good feeling that the bike is more sorted now. Felt very different and much smoother on fast cornering.
Bonza.
Turns out that good old Riossi (Motorcycle City at the time) made a pigs arse of setting the bike up in the first place, and fundamendal things like the wheels being out of line, and the rear shock having only 4psi (should be 12) were causing my problems.
Had this done yesterday and have yet to take the bike out for a proper thrash, but the burn I did go for when I left set-up engineering gave me a good feeling that the bike is more sorted now. Felt very different and much smoother on fast cornering.
Bonza.
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