New BMW clutchless

[Mr Squarekins]

Baron Von Grumble seems to be in love with the very new BMW auto bike gearbox. Anyone here tried one yet?

https://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/en/engineering/auto...

I'm intrigued, so will get a rest ride. The idea did not register, however bvg seemed super smitten.

[Mr Dendrite]

I rode a standard gs1300 asa in September. Not for me, but can see why people will buy them. In auto mode it changed up very quickly, unless you were hard on the throttle, so you were in too high a gear by 30mph. Also it changed up off or constant throttle mid corner which felt horrible. The gear changes were very similar in clunkiness to my R1250rs with shift assist, both up and down except it did it itself. Maybe it would grow on me, but instead of of having a test ride on 1300 to compare with the 1250 engine I felt I was fighting something I didn’t want. Happy to be convinced otherwise in the future

Edited by Mr Dendrite on Thursday 31st October 19:43

Edited by Mr Dendrite on Thursday 31st October 19:50

[TheInternet]

Anything special about this compared to Honda's DCT?

[Krikkit]

TheInternet said:

Anything special about this compared to Honda's DCT?

Totally different - the BMW is effectively a rekluse clutch with an electronic actuator, the Honda is two gear sets with clutches etc

[Caddyshack]

I think that having a foot based gear change is important for bikes, some manufacturers don’t have it.

I can see it has its place but biking purely for pleasure means having a clutch for me. If I were commuting many miles I am sure it would be a benefit.

[Steve Bass]

All very clever but when you need to finesse the clutch?? Ooops, no clutch control.
How about retaining the clutch control AND providing the automated approach when in D??
And when making progress, how many people actually pull the clutch in to change up or down? I don't touch the clutch going up the box and only occasionally going down..
Personally, I wouldn't touch a bike without a manual clutch lever with a 10foot pole. So why not provide both and simplify the bikes on offer? Best of both worlds....

[Caddyshack]

Steve Bass said:

All very clever but when you need to finesse the clutch?? Ooops, no clutch control.
How about retaining the clutch control AND providing the automated approach when in D??
And when making progress, how many people actually pull the clutch in to change up or down? I don't touch the clutch going up the box and only occasionally going down..
Personally, I wouldn't touch a bike without a manual clutch lever with a 10foot pole. So why not provide both and simplify the bikes on offer? Best of both worlds....

Good point, must be possible to do and would mean that most people would then tick the option box if sitting on the fence.

[Jazoli]

Caddyshack said:

Steve Bass said:

All very clever but when you need to finesse the clutch?? Ooops, no clutch control.
How about retaining the clutch control AND providing the automated approach when in D??
And when making progress, how many people actually pull the clutch in to change up or down? I don't touch the clutch going up the box and only occasionally going down..
Personally, I wouldn't touch a bike without a manual clutch lever with a 10foot pole. So why not provide both and simplify the bikes on offer? Best of both worlds....

Good point, must be possible to do and would mean that most people would then tick the option box if sitting on the fence.

Honda's new E Clutch thing does just this I'm sure.

[Caddyshack]

Jazoli said:

Honda's new E Clutch thing does just this I'm sure.

Are you sure? I think the 1000 I looked at didn’t even have a gear pedal for the foot…just buttons.

[lazybike]

Steve Bass said:

All very clever but when you need to finesse the clutch?? Ooops, no clutch control.
How about retaining the clutch control AND providing the automated approach when in D??
And when making progress, how many people actually pull the clutch in to change up or down? I don't touch the clutch going up the box and only occasionally going down..
Personally, I wouldn't touch a bike without a manual clutch lever with a 10foot pole. So why not provide both and simplify the bikes on offer? Best of both worlds....

I felt the same but rode the NT1100 with DCT, spent an hour on it, in auto I didn't like it, changes at weird times, but using the buttons like paddles in a car I quite liked it.

[Caddyshack]

lazybike said:

Steve Bass said:

All very clever but when you need to finesse the clutch?? Ooops, no clutch control.
How about retaining the clutch control AND providing the automated approach when in D??
And when making progress, how many people actually pull the clutch in to change up or down? I don't touch the clutch going up the box and only occasionally going down..
Personally, I wouldn't touch a bike without a manual clutch lever with a 10foot pole. So why not provide both and simplify the bikes on offer? Best of both worlds....

I felt the same but rode the NT1100 with DCT, spent an hour on it, in auto I didn't like it, changes at weird times, but using the buttons like paddles in a car I quite liked it.

My wife had a 996 911 and I hated it in auto but on the tip buttons it worked very well. My AMG was pretty rubbish on paddles.

[Pica-Pica]

Steve Bass said:

All very clever but when you need to finesse the clutch?? Ooops, no clutch control.
How about retaining the clutch control AND providing the automated approach when in D??
And when making progress, how many people actually pull the clutch in to change up or down? I don't touch the clutch going up the box and only occasionally going down..
Personally, I wouldn't touch a bike without a manual clutch lever with a 10foot pole. So why not provide both and simplify the bikes on offer? Best of both worlds....

I think, during a magazine road test, a similar comment was made on not being able to do a U-turn in the road without adequate clutch control

[Steve Bass]

Pica-Pica said:

Steve Bass said:

All very clever but when you need to finesse the clutch?? Ooops, no clutch control.
How about retaining the clutch control AND providing the automated approach when in D??
And when making progress, how many people actually pull the clutch in to change up or down? I don't touch the clutch going up the box and only occasionally going down..
Personally, I wouldn't touch a bike without a manual clutch lever with a 10foot pole. So why not provide both and simplify the bikes on offer? Best of both worlds....

I think, during a magazine road test, a similar comment was made on not being able to do a U-turn in the road without adequate clutch control

Kinda my point.
A torque converter in an auto box allows a degree of slip before locking up.
Controlling a bike clutch with an electromechanical actuator cannot provide a measured level of slip vs rpm so I can't see how slow speed control can be managed.
Having a clutch lever as an override would allow the rider to have fine control of the clutch when re quired but allow the mechanical operation when at speeds faster than walking pace. To me, as technically wonderful as it may seem, it's actually removing a vital aspect of proper bike control for minimal advantages if any.
Who's ever ridden a bike thinking "oooh, an automatic gear change system is what's missing!!"
Said no one .... ever

[s p a c e m a n]

Caddyshack said:

Jazoli said:

Honda's new E Clutch thing does just this I'm sure.

Are you sure? I think the 1000 I looked at didn’t even have a gear pedal for the foot…just buttons.

I took a E Clutch cb650 out and it has a clutch handle and foot shift like normal but you didn't need to pull the clutch for anything if you didn't want to. It would stop and idle in any gear without the clutch pulled in and would change gear, but had no auto mode you had to use your foot to change gear.

Was awesome, just like having flappy paddles but on your foot where they should be.

You could also turn it off if you wanted, but I couldn't see the point. The thing had better clutch control than me flat out from the lights

[Steve_H80]

It interesting how all this auto is panning out (both technically and how we bikers respond to it) now that every manufacturer is jumping on the auto bandwagon.
Scooters have been automatic for years and everyone who has rode one soon learns to drag the back brake for slow manoeuvres, but auto bikes are still using a foot brake which isn't as easy to modulate.
For those that use their GS for touring or commuting I can see automatic being very useful, but for off-roading or general hooning about much less so.
It's nice to have choices though.

[Mr Squarekins]

This sums up my thoughts, very slow riding, at foot pace at needs clutch skill. Intrigued to see how it works in practice. Auto cars do it very well, so keen just to try one. It's never been something for me.

[Alex@POD]

I haven't tried the BMW yet (but I will try and blag a test ride at ABR Festival, as well as the KTM and Yamaha versions). I can't say I've had much trouble riding at walking pace on my Africa Twin DCT for the last 7 years though.

I also don't get all the fuss about the gearchange "needing" to be on the foot. I'd rather not have to shift my foot on the peg at an awkward time if I'm honest! It might be me being too unflexible and unfit (for track riding), but I would really love my DCT gearbox on my track bike.

[outnumbered]

Mr Squarekins said:

This sums up my thoughts, very slow riding, at foot pace at needs clutch skill. Intrigued to see how it works in practice. Auto cars do it very well, so keen just to try one. It's never been something for me.

I'm interested to try it out. On cars with this type of single clutch automated shifting (BMW SMG2/3 , Ferrari "F1" on older cars) the computer automatically feathers the clutch at very small throttle openings. If the bike doesn't do that, you'd just need to use the back brake, which doesn't seem too difficult as most people probably do that anyway in a U turn.

[moanthebairns]

I've have an auto box in my E-class and for the last 8 months of ownership I still can't get used to it, I fking hate the thing unless it's crawling in traffic. Changing mid corner, or up hill when you want the revs, fking infuriating. I just don't feel connected with the car, which is fine I guess for a car like that a bike no thanks. I still go to grab a gear lever or clutch with my foot at times especially jumping from a manual I drive most of the time. I can imagine how fking annoying an auto on a bike would be after jumping on it from a 90's screaming 600.

I enjoy the constant banging up and down through the box, as you take it to the redline. I'll take a q/s and an autobliper but I'm not even remotely interested in BMW or KTM's offerings on these going forward. I enjoy the misery.

[Caddyshack]

s p a c e m a n said:

Caddyshack said:

Jazoli said:

Honda's new E Clutch thing does just this I'm sure.

Are you sure? I think the 1000 I looked at didn’t even have a gear pedal for the foot…just buttons.

I took a E Clutch cb650 out and it has a clutch handle and foot shift like normal but you didn't need to pull the clutch for anything if you didn't want to. It would stop and idle in any gear without the clutch pulled in and would change gear, but had no auto mode you had to use your foot to change gear.

Was awesome, just like having flappy paddles but on your foot where they should be.

You could also turn it off if you wanted, but I couldn't see the point. The thing had better clutch control than me flat out from the lights

That sounds the perfect solution