Return to biking - Track days only
Discussion
I was at Brands at the weekend with a mate of mine for the BSB finale.
As was bound to happen we have come away enthused about getting back in the saddle.
I had a R6 back in 2005 and a BMW F800R in 2009, haven't been on a bike since 2010. Back then i was a Sunday morning rider so pretty average even back then.
We want to start doing trackdays, which i'm not a novice at, been taking cars on them for 20 years.
Questions:
1) At 48 is this a stupid idea?
2) If not, what would be a good bike to get, i'm thinking a bike that's already been turned into a track only bike with a v5
I'm 65kg with bugger all upper body strength so i think a 600 would be a decent size
As was bound to happen we have come away enthused about getting back in the saddle.
I had a R6 back in 2005 and a BMW F800R in 2009, haven't been on a bike since 2010. Back then i was a Sunday morning rider so pretty average even back then.
We want to start doing trackdays, which i'm not a novice at, been taking cars on them for 20 years.
Questions:
1) At 48 is this a stupid idea?
2) If not, what would be a good bike to get, i'm thinking a bike that's already been turned into a track only bike with a v5
I'm 65kg with bugger all upper body strength so i think a 600 would be a decent size
Muzzman said:
I was at Brands at the weekend with a mate of mine for the BSB finale.
As was bound to happen we have come away enthused about getting back in the saddle.
I had a R6 back in 2005 and a BMW F800R in 2009, haven't been on a bike since 2010. Back then i was a Sunday morning rider so pretty average even back then.
We want to start doing trackdays, which i'm not a novice at, been taking cars on them for 20 years.
Questions:
1) At 48 is this a stupid idea?
2) If not, what would be a good bike to get, i'm thinking a bike that's already been turned into a track only bike with a v5
I'm 65kg with bugger all upper body strength so i think a 600 would be a decent size
1) It's a stupid idea at any age given the costs and the risk involved but thousands of people do it every year and have a great timeAs was bound to happen we have come away enthused about getting back in the saddle.
I had a R6 back in 2005 and a BMW F800R in 2009, haven't been on a bike since 2010. Back then i was a Sunday morning rider so pretty average even back then.
We want to start doing trackdays, which i'm not a novice at, been taking cars on them for 20 years.
Questions:
1) At 48 is this a stupid idea?
2) If not, what would be a good bike to get, i'm thinking a bike that's already been turned into a track only bike with a v5
I'm 65kg with bugger all upper body strength so i think a 600 would be a decent size
48 is no different to 28 is no different to 68; go into it with your eyes open and be aware of the risks you are taking and how much you are happy to push the envelope to get faster/have more fun/take risks.
2) What is your budget?
You could have the fastest/blingest/ coolest bike on track if your budget is unlimited, I've known guys spend £500 for the whole lot - bike plus mods.
A 600 is a great starting point, as is a 400, as is whatever bike you can get your hands on; anything can be tracked.
I'm 60 ssoon and still a track day addict.
First bike, get something simple like a Yamaha R6, GSXR 600, SV650, CB 500 race bike and have fun.
Any prepared track bike is likely to need a little attention here or there so if you're handy with a set of spanners so much the better.
Tyres will be your main expense after the bike and entrance fees. DO NOT skimp on el cheapo rubber. And try to get a spare set of wheels and wets as well as a rain suit. Wet riding is the best lesson .
Good luck
First bike, get something simple like a Yamaha R6, GSXR 600, SV650, CB 500 race bike and have fun.
Any prepared track bike is likely to need a little attention here or there so if you're handy with a set of spanners so much the better.
Tyres will be your main expense after the bike and entrance fees. DO NOT skimp on el cheapo rubber. And try to get a spare set of wheels and wets as well as a rain suit. Wet riding is the best lesson .
Good luck
I started doing track days age 52 and I hadn't had a sports bike on the road at all
I bought a CBR 600 F4i which had already been gently dropped for £1500
So that I could get used to it on the road before I took it on track
In hindsight, perhaps I'd have been better off with a track bike and just got a daylight mot
I heard all sorts of horror stories and it's true that the novice group is full of track bikes with tyre warmers, wets and slicks etc. They don't seem very novice to me, but I thoroughly enjoyed myself and overtook a few people
Personally, I can't think of anything worse than being the slowest rider on the fastest bike
I've thoroughly enjoyed overtaking (a few) superior track bikes on my inferior road going CBR
When (if) I get good enough to get into the intermediate group, I'll probably upgrade to a better bike but there's not much point while the bike is still so much better than I am
I bought a CBR 600 F4i which had already been gently dropped for £1500
So that I could get used to it on the road before I took it on track
In hindsight, perhaps I'd have been better off with a track bike and just got a daylight mot
I heard all sorts of horror stories and it's true that the novice group is full of track bikes with tyre warmers, wets and slicks etc. They don't seem very novice to me, but I thoroughly enjoyed myself and overtook a few people
Personally, I can't think of anything worse than being the slowest rider on the fastest bike
I've thoroughly enjoyed overtaking (a few) superior track bikes on my inferior road going CBR
When (if) I get good enough to get into the intermediate group, I'll probably upgrade to a better bike but there's not much point while the bike is still so much better than I am
trickywoo said:
I’d get a race / track prepped SV650.
Plenty about with the various race classes for them.
I’d also think about doing a race series rather than track days. In terms of cost per lap track days will get really expensive.
You’ll need a van and some spares / tools also.
Mate has a van so we're sorted there. It can fit two bikes in.Plenty about with the various race classes for them.
I’d also think about doing a race series rather than track days. In terms of cost per lap track days will get really expensive.
You’ll need a van and some spares / tools also.
I'm so far away from being able to compete in a race series, i'm more likely to be wobbling around at the back of novice group.
I get your thinking for the future and it looks like ex race bikes are great value
Not a stupid idea per se - then again asking in here if getting a bike is a stupid idea is like asking an alcoholic if its stupid to get another round of beers in..
Bike wise - CB500 or SV650 is a great shout. CB500 is a bit slow but having tracked and race one its epic fun and teaches you a lot about corner speed and allows you to be a bit ham fisted and doesn't bite too hard with the single caliper and disc up front and a maximum of 52hp so you can snap the throttle open pretty hard without much fear (though they still can chuck you out the seat!)
SV650 is slightly faster with 20hp more but both have a great following from track day riders and racers meaning aftermarket parts are easily available and costs are quite cheap.
I ran scrub tyres on the CB500 and would buy a set for £40-60 for a weekend then sell them for £10-20 at the end
can't get much cheaper! Fuel lasts an age, you can buy a bike with wets and spares for £1000-1500 with all the right bits for track and used panels can cost as little as £50 so if you smash it up, you don't lose much.
600s are great fun, but much faster and arguably won't teach you as much as quickly plus the costs grow much faster with tyres wearing out more quickly and more expensive components etc
CB500 is the answer
Mine when it was a £700 road bike - did nothing to it apart from lower the tyre pressures - still awesome fun
Then as a race bike! Jumping the mountain at Cadwell... just
Bike wise - CB500 or SV650 is a great shout. CB500 is a bit slow but having tracked and race one its epic fun and teaches you a lot about corner speed and allows you to be a bit ham fisted and doesn't bite too hard with the single caliper and disc up front and a maximum of 52hp so you can snap the throttle open pretty hard without much fear (though they still can chuck you out the seat!)
SV650 is slightly faster with 20hp more but both have a great following from track day riders and racers meaning aftermarket parts are easily available and costs are quite cheap.
I ran scrub tyres on the CB500 and would buy a set for £40-60 for a weekend then sell them for £10-20 at the end
can't get much cheaper! Fuel lasts an age, you can buy a bike with wets and spares for £1000-1500 with all the right bits for track and used panels can cost as little as £50 so if you smash it up, you don't lose much. 600s are great fun, but much faster and arguably won't teach you as much as quickly plus the costs grow much faster with tyres wearing out more quickly and more expensive components etc
CB500 is the answer
Mine when it was a £700 road bike - did nothing to it apart from lower the tyre pressures - still awesome fun
Then as a race bike! Jumping the mountain at Cadwell... just
I wouldn't say i'm an alcoholic, but i do like a beer and i'm a nightmare getting out of the pub.
The younger me would have turned my nose up at a CB500, but after reading this i like the idea of this or the sv650 as a first track bike, like i say i want whatever helps me learn the quickest.
Is there any particular year to look for when looking for cb500's / sv650's?
Moving on to my next question which may or may not be daft. Invariably the the bike is going to be old and to be fair i don't really know what i'm looking for. Is it a case of after i get the bike, try to find an independant near me in Essex to give it the once over and pay some money to ensure it's safe to take on track.
After that are they pretty easy to maintain, what's the sort of maintenance and things to regularly check?
Spannering isn't really something i've had much to do with up to now, but keen to learn.
The younger me would have turned my nose up at a CB500, but after reading this i like the idea of this or the sv650 as a first track bike, like i say i want whatever helps me learn the quickest.
Is there any particular year to look for when looking for cb500's / sv650's?
Moving on to my next question which may or may not be daft. Invariably the the bike is going to be old and to be fair i don't really know what i'm looking for. Is it a case of after i get the bike, try to find an independant near me in Essex to give it the once over and pay some money to ensure it's safe to take on track.
After that are they pretty easy to maintain, what's the sort of maintenance and things to regularly check?
Spannering isn't really something i've had much to do with up to now, but keen to learn.
Muzzman said:
I wouldn't say i'm an alcoholic, but i do like a beer and i'm a nightmare getting out of the pub.
The younger me would have turned my nose up at a CB500, but after reading this i like the idea of this or the sv650 as a first track bike, like i say i want whatever helps me learn the quickest.
Is there any particular year to look for when looking for cb500's / sv650's?
Moving on to my next question which may or may not be daft. Invariably the the bike is going to be old and to be fair i don't really know what i'm looking for. Is it a case of after i get the bike, try to find an independant near me in Essex to give it the once over and pay some money to ensure it's safe to take on track.
After that are they pretty easy to maintain, what's the sort of maintenance and things to regularly check?
Spannering isn't really something i've had much to do with up to now, but keen to learn.
Sounds like we are cut from the same cloth! The younger me would have turned my nose up at a CB500, but after reading this i like the idea of this or the sv650 as a first track bike, like i say i want whatever helps me learn the quickest.
Is there any particular year to look for when looking for cb500's / sv650's?
Moving on to my next question which may or may not be daft. Invariably the the bike is going to be old and to be fair i don't really know what i'm looking for. Is it a case of after i get the bike, try to find an independant near me in Essex to give it the once over and pay some money to ensure it's safe to take on track.
After that are they pretty easy to maintain, what's the sort of maintenance and things to regularly check?
Spannering isn't really something i've had much to do with up to now, but keen to learn.
SV I'm not as familiar with but later models (post 03 I think?) are "pointy" where as previous were "curvy" - not much difference although I believe one combination of heads and bottom ends is supposedly better but I forget which,
CB500 is basically unchanged from 97? to 03 - after this they aren't the original which can't be raced so avoid if possible - likely most track bikes are the years mentioned.
The bikes are likely to be prepped, but not all well. The issue is what one owner thinks is brilliant is borderline dangerous for others - get someone with skills to look at it for you if possible, even better if they know the CB500 - there's a couple lads in Essex that have raced CB500s, i'd recommend posting on the facebook group for CB500 racing and someone will be able to point out a good one or perhaps even go with you to examine one and know if it has the right bits, bungle_121 on instagram is a chap named Colin who's raced and built CB500s and is based in Kent or Essex (I forget which) who may help if you drop a DM. Grant Whittaker and Josh Leaning are two chaps in the CB500 world that have won multiple championships and piece and often have bikes for sale that they've built so you'll know its correct though generally they are a higher price than others on the market
Fairly easy to maintain - my engine was the original road motor and all I did was change the oil and plugs to go racing (obviously changed coolant for water too)! Regular oil changes, keep the brake pads and pistons clean (CB500 brembo caliper is worse for jamming when heating than the nissin) and check the chain and sprockets along with wheel bearings, swingarm bearings and head bearings... may sound like more than you're capable of right now but none of the above is particulalry difficult and I'm sure you'll find folks near by if posting in the right places to lend a hand in exchange for beer or similar.
Other people do send their bikes to a decent independent, plenty around near you I'm sure. I'd do some searching on no limits trackday social facebook page or the trackday addicts page (beware, sometimes they are savages)
trickywoo said:
I’d also think about doing a race series rather than track days. In terms of cost per lap track days will get really expensive.
How much does a race series cost and how many laps do you get ? When I looked into it for cars even racing MX5s it was about 10 times more expensive than track days per lap
KTMsm said:
How much does a race series cost and how many laps do you get ?
When I looked into it for cars even racing MX5s it was about 10 times more expensive than track days per lap
Very expensive! When I looked into it for cars even racing MX5s it was about 10 times more expensive than track days per lap
Entry around £400-500
Test day £120 (ish)
Fuel for van £60-100
Fuel for Genny - £10-20
Fuel for bike - £20-50
Tyres - £30-50 (for me running scrubs)
Food - £20-40
Booze - £10-20
For that you get around 6 x 20 min sessions on the test day, 1 x 10min practice/qually on sat & sun (time varies slightly) and then 4 x 6-10 lap races (circuit length depending)
So easily £670 as a cheap weekend and £900 at the higher end, generally ended up more than less and I didn't ever crash in the few weekends I did so no costs for crash damage. The faster the bike, the higher the cost. I know some folk who would spend £300-500 a weekend just in tyres at club racing. Oh and thats without doing the ACU licence too which is a couple hundred quid from memory.
Easily much more expensive than trackdays per lap but there is little comparison. It's like comparing road riding to track riding in my opinion, its such a step up not only in terms of pace (unless you're a fast bugger any way) but the feeling of a full grid and being in the mix firing into the first corner is like nothing else I've experienced and definitely not on track.
I've done lots of trackdays, mostly on "smaller" bikes.
Honestly a CB500 ridden well will be passing *lots* of far faster (on paper) bikes. I'm not overly fond of the CB500 personally as I find the power curve a bit too _flat_ and I like a bit more top end but I love the 400's. Particularly chasing down the litre bikes!
I keep borrowing my wifes bike for that reason!
The 400's though are getting _very_ pricy for good ones, even track only ones are fetching serious money.
You can't go really wrong with the CB500 or SV650 as a first track bike, even if you *do* find it a bit slower than you'd like, most of the time these end up not losing any money (beyond the obvious running costs) so you can just sell it and get something else.
As to which SV, the early 99-02 "curvy" ones are lightest but have the least power, that however can be fixed easily swapping the later cams in. They are carb'd which does make them a bit of an arse with modern E10, I run mine on super and ensure that I run the carbs dry at the end of the day.
The 2003-2008 are the "pointy" ones. Tiny bit more power, more weight and a move to EFI. Fuel pumps can be an issue on bikes left for long periods (same to be fair for *any* modern EFI bike). Avoid the 2003. Not because its bad as per se but it was an in-between year and many parts are unique to it. The SV650S stayed the same up to 2012 or so.
I wouldn't bother personally with the SVF650 Gladius.
Out of the box the suspension is basic, particularly the front however a set of emulators and stiffer springs will improve things no end.
Lots of ex-race bikes available for both as the mini-twins race series has been really popular. These have the advantage of uprated suspension etc (and the [dis]advantage of course of being pre-crashed.) They're pretty reliable though, the main thing is not to wheelie them (beyond a quick up and down) as it causes oil starvation.
I've owned mine since new and I think I've done somewhere between 30-40 trackdays on it!
Honestly a CB500 ridden well will be passing *lots* of far faster (on paper) bikes. I'm not overly fond of the CB500 personally as I find the power curve a bit too _flat_ and I like a bit more top end but I love the 400's. Particularly chasing down the litre bikes!
I keep borrowing my wifes bike for that reason!
The 400's though are getting _very_ pricy for good ones, even track only ones are fetching serious money.
You can't go really wrong with the CB500 or SV650 as a first track bike, even if you *do* find it a bit slower than you'd like, most of the time these end up not losing any money (beyond the obvious running costs) so you can just sell it and get something else.
As to which SV, the early 99-02 "curvy" ones are lightest but have the least power, that however can be fixed easily swapping the later cams in. They are carb'd which does make them a bit of an arse with modern E10, I run mine on super and ensure that I run the carbs dry at the end of the day.
The 2003-2008 are the "pointy" ones. Tiny bit more power, more weight and a move to EFI. Fuel pumps can be an issue on bikes left for long periods (same to be fair for *any* modern EFI bike). Avoid the 2003. Not because its bad as per se but it was an in-between year and many parts are unique to it. The SV650S stayed the same up to 2012 or so.
I wouldn't bother personally with the SVF650 Gladius.
Out of the box the suspension is basic, particularly the front however a set of emulators and stiffer springs will improve things no end.
Lots of ex-race bikes available for both as the mini-twins race series has been really popular. These have the advantage of uprated suspension etc (and the [dis]advantage of course of being pre-crashed.) They're pretty reliable though, the main thing is not to wheelie them (beyond a quick up and down) as it causes oil starvation.
I've owned mine since new and I think I've done somewhere between 30-40 trackdays on it!
A lower powered bike would be the way to do it and the CB500 is no slouch in a good rider's hands, see them mixing it with more purpose designed bikes at Aberdare Road Races every year.
Plus with a lower powered bike, you can hoon it like you stole it and not get into quite as much trouble as you would on a much bigger or more powerful bike. I would be happy to wring the neck of a CB500 on a track but wouldn't dream of doing the same with some of the 600's and especially not the litre bikes.
Plus with a lower powered bike, you can hoon it like you stole it and not get into quite as much trouble as you would on a much bigger or more powerful bike. I would be happy to wring the neck of a CB500 on a track but wouldn't dream of doing the same with some of the 600's and especially not the litre bikes.
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