Can I retain number plate on 1957 bike without MOT?

[Billyb52]

Hello,

My father in law has a James motorbike manufactured in 1957 and registered to his address. The bike hasn't had an MOT for years, if it ever had one at all, and although complete, it hasnt been started for a very long time. The number plate is quite special and we'd like to keep it in the family for future use.
Is there a way to retain this plate once the bike goes to auction? As I understand it, retention of a plate requires a valid MOT, but this bike hasn't got one and will never have one unless someone restores it.

Many thanks.

[RSTurboPaul]

Billyb52 said:

Hello,

My father in law has a James motorbike manufactured in 1957 and registered to his address. The bike hasn't had an MOT for years, if it ever had one at all, and although complete, it hasnt been started for a very long time. The number plate is quite special and we'd like to keep it in the family for future use.
Is there a way to retain this plate once the bike goes to auction? As I understand it, retention of a plate requires a valid MOT, but this bike hasn't got one and will never have one unless someone restores it.

Many thanks.

https://www.gov.uk/personalised-vehicle-registrati...

gov.uk website said:

Eligibility

The vehicle must:

be registered with DVLA in the UK
be able to move under its own power
be of a type that needs an MOT or heavy goods vehicle (HGV) test certificate
be available for inspection - DVLA will contact you if they need to inspect your vehicle
have been taxed or had a SORN in place continuously for the past 5 years
be taxed currently or have a SORN in place - if it’s had a SORN in place for more than 5 years, it must be taxed and have an MOT certificate
If you have a historic (classic) vehicle you’ll also need a current MOT certificate, even if your vehicle is usually exempt from MOTs.

Assuming it's been stored in a shed somewhere and does not have a SORN in place, you would fail on 2, 5, 6 and 7 in that list...


It appears you can't get the plate off unless it is restored. You might need to consider whether restoration is something you/the family could afford.


EDIT: I would add caution in terms of 'gentlemen's agreements' or promises to give you the plate once restored by a third party that bought it off you at auction - many a time people have 'changed their mind'...

Edited by RSTurboPaul on Sunday 21st July 19:52

[Billyb52]

Hi,

Many thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply. It seems clear that we're not going to be able to transfer the plate. It's a shame as it would be a nice family connection that we could pass down to successive generations. The bike related to the plate was used for many years as a trials and carted all around the country to various meets where it even won a cup or two. Sadly it's been neglected for years as my Father in Law's health declined, and other members of the family don't have the skills or room to restore it.
Many thanks once again.

[RSTurboPaul]

Billyb52 said:

Hi,

Many thanks for taking the time to give such a comprehensive reply. It seems clear that we're not going to be able to transfer the plate. It's a shame as it would be a nice family connection that we could pass down to successive generations. The bike related to the plate was used for many years as a trials and carted all around the country to various meets where it even won a cup or two. Sadly it's been neglected for years as my Father in Law's health declined, and other members of the family don't have the skills or room to restore it.
Many thanks once again.

To ask the question, what format of plate is it?

2x4 (LL NNNN)?
3x3 (LLL NNN)?
Something else?
Does it have 'good' numbers or letters (repeating / a sequence / visually agreeable / could be read as a word)?

If it is a short plate then it might be worth a chunky sum and worth pursuing restoration to allow retention as an asset or a separate sale.


Alternatively, got any pics?

(I appreciate the desire for privacy on the internet so please do not feel obliged to post anything you do not want to!)


Providing the information on the past wins etc. to any auction house or on a sale portal (Collecting Cars? eBay?) should help bolster the price of a sale.

Edited by RSTurboPaul on Tuesday 23 July 11:01

[Decky_Q]

A vintage bike mot isnt that hard to pass (it has to pass the test it was designed for, not a modern mot).

I saw a Matchless being mot'd once and it took all of 5mins once it was loaded off the trailer and started. They basically moved it around under power to check it steered and braked and that was it complete.

This bike looked like a bicycle that had an ebay motor kit added and passed no problems.

You dont have to do paintwork/wiring or anything like that, just get it through a test and transfer the plate, then sell it for more with a recent test.

[stang65]

Most James motorcycles are not very valuable. It might be possible to buy another running bike, swap over the engine, wheels etc onto that frame then get an MOT relatively cheaply. Worth a look as it wouldn't be difficult to do, and then you could sell the pair of bikes to recoup cost......

You wouldn't need anything anywhere near as clean as this for example:
https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/18221/lot/429/195...

[Billyb52]

I haven't got any pic at the moment and the bike is some miles away.
The number plate is in the format TP6666 (not the actual numbers and letters, but similar).

Good point re the MOT. The bike won't start, but it might not take much to get it going and do a brake check.

Thanks again

[Megaflow]

A bike of that age doesn’t require an MOT by law, might be worth trying a transfer and see what happens.

I suspect there is a gap in the system and it will insist on an MOT, but it’s got to be worth a shot.

[bnseven]

But if the Gov website is correct you definitely need an MOT and it has to have been SORNED or taxed for past five years so not a speedy process

[srob]

Decky_Q said:

A vintage bike mot isnt that hard to pass (it has to pass the test it was designed for, not a modern mot).

I saw a Matchless being mot'd once and it took all of 5mins once it was loaded off the trailer and started. They basically moved it around under power to check it steered and braked and that was it complete.

This bike looked like a bicycle that had an ebay motor kit added and passed no problems.

You dont have to do paintwork/wiring or anything like that, just get it through a test and transfer the plate, then sell it for more with a recent test.

That's not my experience. Yes they don't have to pass to the modern standard, but back when we had to get our vintage bikes MoT'd it would take as long as a modern vehicle because the computer kicked off if the inspector went too fast. So instead of checking the rear suspension, we'd have to stand looking at where it would be for as long as it would take to inspect it. And so on for lights, electrics, emissions etc! Luckily we don't have to go through that any more!

OP - with all due respect the number plate is best off kept with the bike. If it's sentimental, I'm sure whoever built and loved the bike in the family didn't just do it because it has a nice number plate. Personally I'd keep it (the bike and the plate). You say you want to be able to hand down the plate (never heard of that before!) have you thought that maybe one day an ancestor will want to trace the bike that meant so much? Once the plate's been taken off there's absolutely zero chance you'll ever find that bike again. You may not want the bike but someone else might do one day.

I'm really not a fan of selling/removing number plates and I wouldn't buy an old bike with an age related number now.

ETA: If you don't have the space to store it, strip it and put it in boxes. Won't be more than a couple of large plastic crates worth and a bare frame/forks will hang on a garage or shed wall. Just oil everything up and label it up and keep it until someone does want to restore it.

Edited by srob on Tuesday 23 July 12:40

[RSTurboPaul]

stang65 said:

Most James motorcycles are not very valuable. It might be possible to buy another running bike, swap over the engine, wheels etc onto that frame then get an MOT relatively cheaply. Worth a look as it wouldn't be difficult to do, and then you could sell the pair of bikes to recoup cost......

You wouldn't need anything anywhere near as clean as this for example:
https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/18221/lot/429/195...

Wouldn't that create issues with the frame number being different?

Or does the MOT just look at the plate stuck on it and ignore chassis/frame/engine numbers?

[srob]

RSTurboPaul said:

Wouldn't that create issues with the frame number being different?

Or does the MOT just look at the plate stuck on it and ignore chassis/frame/engine numbers?

You could easily fake it but it would be fraud if caught as the reg number is be tied to the frame I think so you'd have to re-stamp it.

I know the DVLA are really tightening up on registrations of old vehicles. It's one of the reasons I bought a Norton to build a cafe racer out of instead of building a Triton as I've read loads of horror stories of people trying to register them now!

[stang65]

RSTurboPaul said:

stang65 said:

Most James motorcycles are not very valuable. It might be possible to buy another running bike, swap over the engine, wheels etc onto that frame then get an MOT relatively cheaply. Worth a look as it wouldn't be difficult to do, and then you could sell the pair of bikes to recoup cost......

You wouldn't need anything anywhere near as clean as this for example:
https://cars.bonhams.com/auction/18221/lot/429/195...

Wouldn't that create issues with the frame number being different?

Or does the MOT just look at the plate stuck on it and ignore chassis/frame/engine numbers?

That's why I said buy a runner and move all the parts to the OPs frame. That way the frame etc. checks out with the registration. You'd move across the minimum of bits to get it running, which I don't think would take long. If it was built up previously there may not be a matching engine number on the registration anyway (or the registration may not have an engine number). If it was me, I'd try to get it running as it is just out of curiosity, and because that'd be a day or so I'd enjoy. A lot of older machinery is less temperamental, although as this is a trials bike its last run might have ended at the bottom of a river which clearly wouldn't help. If it's not seized I bet it would run.... for a while at least....

[andrewcliffe]

There is a way to retain the plate, but its a 5 year plan involving getting the bike to a roadworthy condition - which should be relatively easily, then keeping the bike taxed for the next 5 years.

If the number plate is special enough to do this, then maybe its a worthwhile plan.

[srob]

stang65 said:

That's why I said buy a runner and move all the parts to the OPs frame. That way the frame etc. checks out with the registration. You'd move across the minimum of bits to get it running, which I don't think would take long. If it was built up previously there may not be a matching engine number on the registration anyway (or the registration may not have an engine number). If it was me, I'd try to get it running as it is just out of curiosity, and because that'd be a day or so I'd enjoy. A lot of older machinery is less temperamental, although as this is a trials bike its last run might have ended at the bottom of a river which clearly wouldn't help. If it's not seized I bet it would run.... for a while at least....

But you wouldn’t be MoT’ing the original frame that the reg number is applicable to though?

ETA sorry I misread what you meant. I think though as the OP said they don’t have the mechanical skills to rebuild it that may be a lot of work!

Edited by srob on Tuesday 23 July 15:00