Warning bikes behind of danger

[Sam Aigal]

Long one so TLDR how do you warn other riders behind you of approaching danger?

So yesterday I'm heading home taking a route that includes one of my favourite stretches of local road. It's about 5 miles or so of wide sweepers, a few good straights, few line of sight obstructions and no cameras. There's a small hamlet about half way with some tighter corners.
Right at the start I find myself behind a car driving in a very "spirited" way. He's cutting corners and going wide on the approaches.
I don't know if he's trying to race me but I'm not interested, I'm happy to just stick with him making it obvious I have no intention of trying to overtake.
As we come through the hamlet we both slow down and a car pulls out in front of him. Not in any way dangerous or unusual and then proceeds to drive at a bit under the limit.
When you exit the hamlet the road opens up again and it's obvious to me that mr proto formula 1 driver is going to floor it and overtake so I'm waiting for this.
As we get to where it opens up I get a blast in my ear from a bike going WOT past me. He'd obviously caught up during the hamlet part but I hadn't noticed ( yes, I should have!) At this point I take a big intake of breath cos I know what's going to happen next. Sure enough Mr F1 flicks his indicator once and pulls straight out to overtake just as the bike is getting to his rear quarter.
Fortunately the bike, by nearly swerving into the ditch and ramming on the brakes, managed to avoid him but it was soooooo close.
The question is , if I had noticed the bike approaching what if anything should I have done?
The option I guess are block him, yes I'd look like a dick but at least I'd have prevented him at the very least having to wash his underwear?
Raise a hand and wave or something but I guess he's not going to know what I mean by it?
Or just do nothing, his ride, his choice, his risk?

[srob]

No simple answer that fits all but on the old bikes when we often don't have indicators (let alone hazards) or a brake light, we tend to use the unofficial international sign of slow down which is a face down open hand waved from waist height downwards...

Whether anyone else would know that is another question but it seems common among people I ride with to warn of a danger. Just makes you be more alert I guess!

[the cueball]

I don't do anything for riders behind me... they have the same view and information as I have... if they are going to fast to process it, or choose not to take advantage of looking and understanding what is going on, that's on them.

Riders coming towards me, I may tap my helmet for police, or give the "calm down" sign as mentioned above if I think there is something that could help them....

That's about it..

[Biker9090]

the cueball said:

I don't do anything for riders behind me... they have the same view and information as I have... if they are going to fast to process it, or choose not to take advantage of looking and understanding what is going on, that's on them.

Riders coming towards me, I may tap my helmet for police, or give the "calm down" sign as mentioned above if I think there is something that could help them....

That's about it..

Exactly this

[Far Cough]

I thought the thumbs down signal was for danger or plod. Always used to be. Has it changed ?

[Pica-Pica]

If I was riding, and I thought the bike behind was likely to overtake into danger. I would, pull out, gently weave a bit to occupy the lane, give a slow down signal (arm out, and moved up and down), and then a thumbs up to show a friendly intent. After that, it’s their risk.

[Discendo Discimus]

Far Cough said:

I thought the thumbs down signal was for danger or plod. Always used to be. Has it changed ?

It's always been a tap on the helmet or the waist height, palm down wave from me.

[NITO]

I drop my arm/hand down diagonally and kind of wave up and down repeatedly.

[cliffords]

I would do nothing. They could easily misunderstood your signal. Crash and say you were waving them on. Then pursue you from an ambulance chasing firm to get compensation.

[Alex Z]

the cueball said:

I don't do anything for riders behind me... they have the same view and information as I have... if they are going to fast to process it, or choose not to take advantage of looking and understanding what is going on, that's on them.

That's about it..

But in this example they *didn't* have the information of how the car driver has been behaving as they've not long caught up, so some warning to hold off a few seconds would have been useful.

Had I been the rear bike, I'd like to think I'd have made a judgement about whether the car is likely to try and overtake ASAP (vehicle type, road position etc), and observe before going for it, but not everyone will do the same.

[Freakuk]

Not that you want to watch an accident unfold in front of you, but it's up to the person overtaking to make sure it's safe to do so... In this case he should have anticipated what was likely to happen.

[NITO]

cliffords said:

I would do nothing. They could easily misunderstood your signal. Crash and say you were waving them on. Then pursue you from an ambulance chasing firm to get compensation.

Law school 101… from Donoghue vs Stevenson 1932

When discussing duty of care, everyone owes a duty of care to their neighbour, the question;

“Who, then, in law is my neighbour? The answer seems to be — persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions which are called in question.”

Plus, had he died and been carted off, how would you feel when you could have saved him?

The bigger/impending the danger the more frantic my hand signal would have been to indicate urgency.

[A500leroy]

put your indicator on as you are going to overtake but leave it long enough for the car in front to do its thing?

[cliffords]

NITO said:

cliffords said:

I would do nothing. They could easily misunderstood your signal. Crash and say you were waving them on. Then pursue you from an ambulance chasing firm to get compensation.

Law school 101… from Donoghue vs Stevenson 1932

When discussing duty of care, everyone owes a duty of care to their neighbour, the question;

“Who, then, in law is my neighbour? The answer seems to be — persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as being so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions which are called in question.”

Plus, had he died and been carted off, how would you feel when you could have saved him?

The bigger/impending the danger the more frantic my hand signal would have been to indicate urgency.

How would you feel if he crashed and died as a result of your actions?

[NITO]

cliffords said:

How would you feel if he crashed and died as a result of your actions?

It’s a valid point of course. Given the circumstances, something you have to weigh up in the moment, is he more likely to come to harm from being warned of a hazard he hasn’t seen or not being warned of it ?It’s true, he could have ignored the warning and lost vital seconds in reaction time or it could have checked him to hesitate just long enough to save him.

That aside, to not warn someone of impending danger for fear of legal recriminations is a sorry state of affairs. In any event, the legal test has evolved from the one cited above, though that was the landmark case for many years for its duty of care test. If it’s foreseeable that someone will come to harm if you do nothing, and you feel doing something will have more benefit than doing nothing, don’t let legal fears halt you.

[LF5335]

Pica-Pica said:

If I was riding, and I thought the bike behind was likely to overtake into danger. I would, pull out, gently weave a bit to occupy the lane, give a slow down signal (arm out, and moved up and down), and then a thumbs up to show a friendly intent. After that, it’s their risk.

You’re going to take this the wrong way, so I might as well be blunt. Shove your actions where the sun doesn’t shine. You have no idea of the ability of the rider behind you, they may be much, much better than you and the last thing they need is some self-appointed Road Captain deciding for them what’s safe and what’s not.

I’m firmly with the others who have said to do nothing and let things play out.

Why does anyone think how others ride has anything to do with them?

[the cueball]

Alex Z said:

the cueball said:

I don't do anything for riders behind me... they have the same view and information as I have... if they are going to fast to process it, or choose not to take advantage of looking and understanding what is going on, that's on them.

That's about it..

But in this example they *didn't* have the information of how the car driver has been behaving as they've not long caught up, so some warning to hold off a few seconds would have been useful.

Had I been the rear bike, I'd like to think I'd have made a judgement about whether the car is likely to try and overtake ASAP (vehicle type, road position etc), and observe before going for it, but not everyone will do the same.

Past performance is not indicative of future results..



I'm the same as you, and fits into the other thread from last week "overtaking other bikers" - I catch, I sit and observe, then I make my decision/move.

Not everyone is like that - then whatever happens is on them, not me for trying to police them..

[The Selfish Gene]

when riding in a group _ I point out surprising things that shouldn't be there..........

So a big hole for example when they may be unsighted

or a large roadkill

so I generally point with either hand or either foot depending on the situation (if I'm standing it's always feet etc).

Agree on the open hand palm down to warn to slow down - usually faster than getting to hazards should your bike be fitted with hazards........

Edited to add - that's only on road - offroad, usually going too quick to fck about and everything coming thick and fast - so it's every man for himself.

[Pica-Pica]

LF5335 said:

Pica-Pica said:

If I was riding, and I thought the bike behind was likely to overtake into danger. I would, pull out, gently weave a bit to occupy the lane, give a slow down signal (arm out, and moved up and down), and then a thumbs up to show a friendly intent. After that, it’s their risk.

You’re going to take this the wrong way, so I might as well be blunt. Shove your actions where the sun doesn’t shine. You have no idea of the ability of the rider behind you, they may be much, much better than you and the last thing they need is some self-appointed Road Captain deciding for them what’s safe and what’s not.

I’m firmly with the others who have said to do nothing and let things play out.

Why does anyone think how others ride has anything to do with them?

I won’t take it any particular way, I am with NITO on this, ‘Duty of care’ versus your ‘Road Captain’ argument. I am passing information, not telling them how to ride.

[Caddyshack]

We use a grab hand to indicate gravel, point at pot holes. Hand on head is Police.

We often have comms in a group though.

In the example above, If I had seen them behind I would have put a flat hand out to try to tell them to hold back and maybe give them the two fingers pointed at my eyes "look" symbol.


You often cannot help others not make their mistakes....the other rider was just not riding well as they overtook too quickly and did not anticipate others pulling out in front.

If I overtake and there is something else in front of me before the car I overtake...or multiple overtake I would be VERY carefully looking and using as much of the other side as possible in a hope to be seen...then keeping a very close eye on the cars I am going past.

Poor driving from MR F1 too...with a bike behind him he should have been uber aware that you might try to overtake when the road opened up.