Classic Values
Discussion
So with the economy and interest rates in Canada not being the best, there seems to be a swathe of classic bikes hitting the market.....
Question is whether they are a longer term bet or are we at the zenith of classic values because the younger generation has no real emotional link or even knowledge or understanding of those bikes from "back in the day "
Examples:
Beautiful 1979 CBX £10,000
Original KH500 £5500
Yamaha 2T's of various capacities.. £1500
Suzuki GT380 £3000
My heart wants to fill the garage, not just for future values ext but some of these were era defining bikes. But in 20 years, will anyone even care
Question is whether they are a longer term bet or are we at the zenith of classic values because the younger generation has no real emotional link or even knowledge or understanding of those bikes from "back in the day "
Examples:
Beautiful 1979 CBX £10,000
Original KH500 £5500
Yamaha 2T's of various capacities.. £1500
Suzuki GT380 £3000
My heart wants to fill the garage, not just for future values ext but some of these were era defining bikes. But in 20 years, will anyone even care
That's a coincidence, I was talking to a local bike mechanic today and he mentioned that he thinks the classic bike market, and the classic car market , will see prices drastically drop as the older owners die off. The younger generations in the main seem to have very little interest in owner maintenance and as such would not want to own a vehicle that requires a lot of hands on fettling just to keep it going.
I see this now, if you go to a bike meet and someone turns up on an old jap stroker or even older brit all the older guys, ( like me ) , will want to have a look at it while the younger ones , ( like my 34 year old son) ,look at us as if we have lost our minds.
I see this now, if you go to a bike meet and someone turns up on an old jap stroker or even older brit all the older guys, ( like me ) , will want to have a look at it while the younger ones , ( like my 34 year old son) ,look at us as if we have lost our minds.
There's no crystal ball, and a lot of people are expressing similar thoughts to that mechanic. If it's a good price to you, and you love the bike, get it bought and enjoy it, things will probably work out okay. If it's purely an investment (I know it's not), then there's better places to put your cash.
Personally I'm looking forward to a pending flat sale giving the funds to stick at least one, preferably two or three classic toys in the garage.
Personally I'm looking forward to a pending flat sale giving the funds to stick at least one, preferably two or three classic toys in the garage.
Prices will drop for the mainstream stuff but I believe that the high grade stuff will stay firm/increase. For example, in the list a CBX1000 is a stand out bike, a statement, and they will be a bike that does go up. "Yamaha 2Ts of various capacities", well I don't think I'd buy an RD125 with any regard to financials.
Look at what's happened to older stuff. No one has a connection to Blower Bentleys now and they're not cheap. Have you seen how much traction engines sell for? However, the volume stuff is suffering, e.g. BSA A10s/A65s etc., even RGS which were solid until a couple of years ago are dropping. It's simple supply and demand so buy top grade stuff and you'll be OK.
I would caveat that no "affordable" vehicle makes money as the running costs outweigh any investment gains. You can obviously buy wisely to hopefully have a cheaper ownership experience over the life of the vehicle....but you can do the same by making sure you buy something that doesn't need major work. Even if a CBX doubles in value you still don't want to get caught for a full engine rebuild....
Look at what's happened to older stuff. No one has a connection to Blower Bentleys now and they're not cheap. Have you seen how much traction engines sell for? However, the volume stuff is suffering, e.g. BSA A10s/A65s etc., even RGS which were solid until a couple of years ago are dropping. It's simple supply and demand so buy top grade stuff and you'll be OK.
I would caveat that no "affordable" vehicle makes money as the running costs outweigh any investment gains. You can obviously buy wisely to hopefully have a cheaper ownership experience over the life of the vehicle....but you can do the same by making sure you buy something that doesn't need major work. Even if a CBX doubles in value you still don't want to get caught for a full engine rebuild....
It's interesting to look at things like the CBX on 'howmanyleft'.
Numbers are rising, I assume imports, as it's tricky to build a fake one, unlike a Rocket Gold Star.
The more desirable bikes operate in a world market, there are several companies bringing them in by the container load.
There are cars and bikes of pre-1960 and pre-war, which seem cheap in relation to their rarity, but they're not very useful and have a high cost of ownership.
Back in the early 80s, I spent a moderate amount of cash buying and sorting a 1960 Triumph, I sold it at a loss in about 1999, having done a few thousand miles on it.
There are some great bikes from early this century at affordable prices, but if it goes wrong, you could lose a lot.
Numbers are rising, I assume imports, as it's tricky to build a fake one, unlike a Rocket Gold Star.
The more desirable bikes operate in a world market, there are several companies bringing them in by the container load.
There are cars and bikes of pre-1960 and pre-war, which seem cheap in relation to their rarity, but they're not very useful and have a high cost of ownership.
Back in the early 80s, I spent a moderate amount of cash buying and sorting a 1960 Triumph, I sold it at a loss in about 1999, having done a few thousand miles on it.
There are some great bikes from early this century at affordable prices, but if it goes wrong, you could lose a lot.
Onelastattempt said:
That's a coincidence, I was talking to a local bike mechanic today and he mentioned that he thinks the classic bike market, and the classic car market , will see prices drastically drop as the older owners die off. The younger generations in the main seem to have very little interest in owner maintenance and as such would not want to own a vehicle that requires a lot of hands on fettling just to keep it going.
I see this now, if you go to a bike meet and someone turns up on an old jap stroker or even older brit all the older guys, ( like me ) , will want to have a look at it while the younger ones , ( like my 34 year old son) ,look at us as if we have lost our minds.
I don't think its the maintenance as such, I'm 36 and I have little to zero interest in bikes before I was born. My dad similar to you, will drag me around the classic hall showing me 70's & early 80's bikes, they mean nothing to me though. I see this now, if you go to a bike meet and someone turns up on an old jap stroker or even older brit all the older guys, ( like me ) , will want to have a look at it while the younger ones , ( like my 34 year old son) ,look at us as if we have lost our minds.
I think it's more a case of these owners dying off, or retiring from biking that will dry up the market.
I recently sold most of my collection of 60s and 70s British motorcycles that were gathering dust all of which i believe had reached their peak value.
13 in total were sold all in top condition but i still look out for those special 70s and 80s Guzzi`s, Benelli`s, Laverda`s and Ducati`s as they are in my opinion only going up in value and can still be great fun to ride unlike 40s and 50s motorcycles imo..
A nice Laverda Jota is on my wish list..
13 in total were sold all in top condition but i still look out for those special 70s and 80s Guzzi`s, Benelli`s, Laverda`s and Ducati`s as they are in my opinion only going up in value and can still be great fun to ride unlike 40s and 50s motorcycles imo..
A nice Laverda Jota is on my wish list..
I didn't buy my few classics as investments, but always good if the values are rising 
. But if they are still rising it'll be nowhere like the rises we saw in Covid times, and I think now that values will be much more model-dependant with some winners and losers. There aren't so many younger riders about, and the riders who have first-hand knowledge of the older bikes, especially the proper vintage stuff, are dying out.
But...I see quite a few brands now making a big deal of their heritage, even where it's a totally different company with no continuity but just a shared badge/brand! And with quite a few riders buying-in to a brand there's always interest in the older bikes. If I pitch up to an Indian meet pretty much every rider of a modern bike loves the '47, and loads claim to aspire to get hold of an older bike. Similarly, modern Triumph owners love the Hurricane, and quite a few express interest in getting hold of an original Bonneville or Trident too. I guess owners of new Norton Commandos will eventually have a hankering for an original. And now the Japanese are starting to go down the retro route, it wouldn't surprise me if quite a few of the folks buying new Z900 are now plotting getting an original Z900 from the 70s as a stablemate.
So I think classics with a tie to a current brand/model that are useable and rideable in today's traffic will keep their values. Not so sure about the real old stuff - flat-tankers and the like. There will of course be continued interest from a core of vintage riders - but while I can see demand for the later stuff holding strong I'm not sure the early vintage stuff will keep increasing so much unless it's particularly notable/rare.
. But if they are still rising it'll be nowhere like the rises we saw in Covid times, and I think now that values will be much more model-dependant with some winners and losers. There aren't so many younger riders about, and the riders who have first-hand knowledge of the older bikes, especially the proper vintage stuff, are dying out.But...I see quite a few brands now making a big deal of their heritage, even where it's a totally different company with no continuity but just a shared badge/brand! And with quite a few riders buying-in to a brand there's always interest in the older bikes. If I pitch up to an Indian meet pretty much every rider of a modern bike loves the '47, and loads claim to aspire to get hold of an older bike. Similarly, modern Triumph owners love the Hurricane, and quite a few express interest in getting hold of an original Bonneville or Trident too. I guess owners of new Norton Commandos will eventually have a hankering for an original. And now the Japanese are starting to go down the retro route, it wouldn't surprise me if quite a few of the folks buying new Z900 are now plotting getting an original Z900 from the 70s as a stablemate.
So I think classics with a tie to a current brand/model that are useable and rideable in today's traffic will keep their values. Not so sure about the real old stuff - flat-tankers and the like. There will of course be continued interest from a core of vintage riders - but while I can see demand for the later stuff holding strong I'm not sure the early vintage stuff will keep increasing so much unless it's particularly notable/rare.
I’d say it peaked in the last couple of years and the bubble has definitely deflated in the last 5 months or so. I wouldn’t say it has burst and perhaps it wont either as desirable/valuable bikes are largely a passion purchase and unlikely to be distress sales with some owners enjoying holding them over cashing out and certainly favouring that over losing money.
What you do see is a stagnant marketplace and many over valued bikes. Why overvalued? Well they are not selling. I’d say buyer sentiment has changed. I’ve bought 3 used classics in the last 6 months and I paid nearly top money for them, but they were rare bikes I’ve always wanted. I don’t think I’ll make on them, but that would have been a bonus anyway and was not my motivation, but certainly it gives you confidence to buy when values are high and there is a ready and willing market to move them on.
Other bikes for sale recently that I would have jumped up a few months ago, I’m not feeling them at the values currently asked and neither is anyone else by the fact they are lingering and I don’t really want to purchase something I will lose on, and I feel the market is heading toward a downward trajectory.
Bikes need attention or they will waste away. Collectors may stick them on a plinth and have watched them appreciate of late, but now that’s no longer happening the reality is those bikes are very different to road worthy ridden bikes in fine fettle and perhaps buyers are considering the additional costs involved with recommissioning these, unless they purely want to display them.
Who wants to collect a depreciating wasting asset? Whereas a rider will appreciate them regardless of what the market is doing but won’t be motivated into buying one at top whack only to need to spend more on re-commissioning. Like boats bought in Covid, there are a lot of bikes bought on a spur of the moment, fuelled by a market frenzy that are now appearing with no maintenance having been done, no real use and pretty much mechanically neglected or bought as projects either poorly or incompletely executed, either way, they will likely need more money spending on them while market values are heading downward.
When values were high a lot of bikes were coming to market that you wouldn’t normally see for sale, which was a good thing. Perhaps as the values drop they will remain squirrelled away or sat unsold on the marketplace.
That’s my feelings anyway…
What you do see is a stagnant marketplace and many over valued bikes. Why overvalued? Well they are not selling. I’d say buyer sentiment has changed. I’ve bought 3 used classics in the last 6 months and I paid nearly top money for them, but they were rare bikes I’ve always wanted. I don’t think I’ll make on them, but that would have been a bonus anyway and was not my motivation, but certainly it gives you confidence to buy when values are high and there is a ready and willing market to move them on.
Other bikes for sale recently that I would have jumped up a few months ago, I’m not feeling them at the values currently asked and neither is anyone else by the fact they are lingering and I don’t really want to purchase something I will lose on, and I feel the market is heading toward a downward trajectory.
Bikes need attention or they will waste away. Collectors may stick them on a plinth and have watched them appreciate of late, but now that’s no longer happening the reality is those bikes are very different to road worthy ridden bikes in fine fettle and perhaps buyers are considering the additional costs involved with recommissioning these, unless they purely want to display them.
Who wants to collect a depreciating wasting asset? Whereas a rider will appreciate them regardless of what the market is doing but won’t be motivated into buying one at top whack only to need to spend more on re-commissioning. Like boats bought in Covid, there are a lot of bikes bought on a spur of the moment, fuelled by a market frenzy that are now appearing with no maintenance having been done, no real use and pretty much mechanically neglected or bought as projects either poorly or incompletely executed, either way, they will likely need more money spending on them while market values are heading downward.
When values were high a lot of bikes were coming to market that you wouldn’t normally see for sale, which was a good thing. Perhaps as the values drop they will remain squirrelled away or sat unsold on the marketplace.
That’s my feelings anyway…
I’m 46yrs old and have just bought a Métisse/matchless as my first vintage/classic bike. It’s been a 3-4yr run up to actually buying one and from what I have observed the market has continued to strengthen for these (in particular prices achieved at auction). My particular bike has lots of pedigree having been raced in period by British and European champions, which added to the appeal (I’m clearly not the generation who think these are household names).
As mentioned earlier, I’m a Norton Commando 961 owner and will likely buy an early 70’s 750 or 850 to ‘book end’ bikes. Again, I’ve been monitoring the market for several years on these and prices continue to be strong, with clean examples selling quickly.
As mentioned earlier, I’m a Norton Commando 961 owner and will likely buy an early 70’s 750 or 850 to ‘book end’ bikes. Again, I’ve been monitoring the market for several years on these and prices continue to be strong, with clean examples selling quickly.
Edited by chappj on Wednesday 22 May 16:32
Always a hard market to quantify. I bought various ‘90’s era bikes over the last few years.. all bikes I have liked and wanted to own but never have.
I paid reasonable money for each, but tried to find the best condition I could. Purchase was not on the basis of making money. Nothing I have bought historically has made money
so I’m good with that. The pleasure is just owning, fixing and riding them.
Older bikes, especially carb’d bikes need regular attention. If you’re able to do this yourself, then all the better, as there are now fewer bike places happy to take on old carby bikes..
Life’s short. If see a bike you want and can afford, fill yer boots
I paid reasonable money for each, but tried to find the best condition I could. Purchase was not on the basis of making money. Nothing I have bought historically has made money
so I’m good with that. The pleasure is just owning, fixing and riding them. Older bikes, especially carb’d bikes need regular attention. If you’re able to do this yourself, then all the better, as there are now fewer bike places happy to take on old carby bikes..
Life’s short. If see a bike you want and can afford, fill yer boots
tvrolet said:
....
So I think classics with a tie to a current brand/model that are useable and rideable in today's traffic will keep their values. Not so sure about the real old stuff - flat-tankers and the like. There will of course be continued interest from a core of vintage riders - but while I can see demand for the later stuff holding strong I'm not sure the early vintage stuff will keep increasing so much unless it's particularly notable/rare.
The thing is, there are a lot fewer pre-war than post-war bikes out there.So I think classics with a tie to a current brand/model that are useable and rideable in today's traffic will keep their values. Not so sure about the real old stuff - flat-tankers and the like. There will of course be continued interest from a core of vintage riders - but while I can see demand for the later stuff holding strong I'm not sure the early vintage stuff will keep increasing so much unless it's particularly notable/rare.
If you look at any of the British makes, there are a handful per year pre war and hundreds per year post war.
So it doesn't need many people to want them.
I guess people will always tend to want Broughs but maybe not some of the Villiers engined things?
Norton850 said:
I recently sold most of my collection of 60s and 70s British motorcycles that were gathering dust all of which i believe had reached their peak value.
13 in total were sold all in top condition but i still look out for those special 70s and 80s Guzzi`s, Benelli`s, Laverda`s and Ducati`s as they are in my opinion only going up in value and can still be great fun to ride unlike 40s and 50s motorcycles imo..
A nice Laverda Jota is on my wish list..
I'm selling a couple of BSAs soon. think they won't be as easy to sell as 10 years ago, especially as one's not standard and one's not a runner.13 in total were sold all in top condition but i still look out for those special 70s and 80s Guzzi`s, Benelli`s, Laverda`s and Ducati`s as they are in my opinion only going up in value and can still be great fun to ride unlike 40s and 50s motorcycles imo..
A nice Laverda Jota is on my wish list..
I'm not looking for an iron clad, gilt edged investment but I wonder if post war bikes, albeit iconic in their time and of significant relevance will still carry that forward or be lost in the mists of time as just another old bike.... some, like the mid 80's to 90's two strokes are, in the main, nostalgic items, only worth what someone will pay to relive their younger days. And for that reason, you buy accepting it's your connection that sets the value, not the market per se.
But bikes like the KH's, CBX's, are they 'halo' enough to remain relevant .... impossible question I know.
But bikes like the KH's, CBX's, are they 'halo' enough to remain relevant .... impossible question I know.
Steve Bass said:
I'm not looking for an iron clad, gilt edged investment but I wonder if post war bikes, albeit iconic in their time and of significant relevance will still carry that forward or be lost in the mists of time as just another old bike.... some, like the mid 80's to 90's two strokes are, in the main, nostalgic items, only worth what someone will pay to relive their younger days. And for that reason, you buy accepting it's your connection that sets the value, not the market per se.
But bikes like the KH's, CBX's, are they 'halo' enough to remain relevant .... impossible question I know.
I'd reckon an early CBX1000 twin shock wouldn't lose much money, if any over the next few years.But bikes like the KH's, CBX's, are they 'halo' enough to remain relevant .... impossible question I know.
chappj said:
I’m 46yrs old and have just bought a Métisse/matchless as my first vintage/classic bike. It’s been a 3-4yr run up to actually buying one and from what I have observed the market has continued to strengthen for these (in particular prices achieved at auction). My particular bike has lots of pedigree having been raced in period by British and European champions, which added to the appeal (I’m clearly not the generation who think these are household names).
As mentioned earlier, I’m a Norton Commando 961 owner and will likely buy an early 70’s 750 or 850 to ‘book end’ bikes. Again, I’ve been monitoring the market for several years on these and prices continue to be strong, with clean examples selling quickly.
An original Commando? Don't do it!As mentioned earlier, I’m a Norton Commando 961 owner and will likely buy an early 70’s 750 or 850 to ‘book end’ bikes. Again, I’ve been monitoring the market for several years on these and prices continue to be strong, with clean examples selling quickly.
Edited by chappj on Wednesday 22 May 16:32
(An embittered former Commando owner)
ther e will always be a market for certain cars/bikes with ltd run numbers etc but with the current recession i am finding most people are either selling their 2md 3rd vehicle not buying any new toys due to the insterest rates and cost of living.
This is having a knock effect in the market.
I have a few old bikes not purchased for investments but to be ridden. i love my 89 fzr 600 genesis as i used that for 5 years before storing and plan over winter possibly next year to strip and rebuild. i know i will spend 4 times the value but i do not see them on the road or at shows anymore and yes i have newer fatser bikes but that is not the point for me. i just enjoy the looks of the bike
This is having a knock effect in the market.
I have a few old bikes not purchased for investments but to be ridden. i love my 89 fzr 600 genesis as i used that for 5 years before storing and plan over winter possibly next year to strip and rebuild. i know i will spend 4 times the value but i do not see them on the road or at shows anymore and yes i have newer fatser bikes but that is not the point for me. i just enjoy the looks of the bike
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