Didn't complete my CBT
Discussion
Yes, I know you can't fail a CBT, hence my title!
By way of background - been driving a car for about 20 years, a manual for probably 6 years and then automatic for the last 14 or so year.
Wanted to do a CBT to learn for pleasure (so no real pressure on me).
Decided to do manual as I assumed it would give me more options later. As it happens the bike I want is a Honda Rebel 500 which is manual but the Rebel 1000 does come in automatic (but its more than I want to spend)
If it sounds like I am blaming my Instructor below, it is because I am but I also accept I wasn't competent.
Chose a school that are quite big/popular/well reviewed in my area.
So turn up just before 9am. The other two people are from abroad and I sense they are learning to be delivery drivers. It was clear from the off there would be minor language barriers between the instructor and the other two students. In fact the first question I was asked was whether I speak English so I assume they get a lot of clients who are from abroad and doing delivery driving etc on a moped.
I asked how long the day would be and instructor says it can be 9 to 2 or it can be 9 to 6 - all depends on the students - but then goes on to say he has to leave by 3 so if any extra training is needed it will be on another day. I should add it was cold and raining and we are in a shipping container - whilst none of this is critical, the mood wasn't very positive.
The other thing to mention was that he said as he can only take 2 on the road at a time we would have to go person A and B first, then A and C, and then C and B. Meaning the road test would take 3 hours and two of the students would have to wait for an hour. The relevance of this is that the off road training would be completed by 12 to allow for those 3 hours.
I was told beforehand that I had to bring boots and jeans. The only boots I have are cheap and nasty steel toe cap ones work provide - they are very clunky. The Instructor said I may have problems with them as I would struggle to control the clutch without having the right feel (and TBF he was definitely right). After signing a disclaimer he let me ride with my trainers on. One of the other guys turned up in tracksuit bottoms and was allowed to ride in them. I didn't want to buy gear in advance in case I didn't want to proceed.
So we start in the classroom and spend about 10-15 mins talking about gear. He mentions if a helmet is dropped it should be binned.
We then go outside to the training area. Best way to describe it is a tarmac tennis court in a school - but a bit wider. It is split into two as there are DAS trainers on one half.
The other two students are riding automatic scooters and I have a Yamaha - not sure exactly what - maybe a YBR - but I think it was 125cc.
We then start the process of learning controls etc .We started practicing straight lines. I had some problems balancing the bike and ended up dropping it (whilst stationary) and ended up under it.
I then started started getting the hang of the bike but I think I over think things and started to make mistakes - for example when braking, using the throttle at the same time. Or braking but not pulling the clutch.
I had problems mastering the clutch and I felt like not enough time was given for me to just properly go back and forth in gear 1. The instructor kept telling me to change gear and prove I could do it but it felt very rushed. Being on a small practice area didn't help.
I also felt like I was holding things up as the other two were progressing well. TBF the instructor did give me some extra goes for extra practice here and there.
We then move onto doing stuff like figure of 8, U Turns, turning left and right.
The other two were easily doing what they needed to do driving wise but he was getting a bit annoyed at them for not following instructions (e.g. road positions when to turn etc).
The final thing was the emergency stop. The big problem I had here was he wanted me to get up to speed/gear change but I didn't feel confident in going fast because the length of the 'road' was not long and I was concerned about going too fast when I know I had difficulty braking properly - I could end up hitting the fence.
After this we had a discussion - he said he wasn't confident for me to go onto the road and I said I wasn't confident either as I hadn't mastered the clutch. Personally I feel like I need a day on just doing clutch and braking. I asked if they did pay as you go one on one sessions but he said no.
The other two had gone in for their Highway Code/safety learning and I heard the instructor tell them they would not be allowed out on the road if they could not understand. I also heard him talk to another instructor about his frustration with having too many foreign students on one course as it is hard work (we had another foreign student who turned up too late and was not allowed on the course). The point I am making here is that he was probably frustrated with me not learning fast enough and the other two not following instructions.
It is now around 11 or 11.15 - so the off road training was a max of 2 hours. The actual driving time was maybe 60-90 mins max.
TBF the instructor says that if another instructor can do the class learning with the two other trainees, he will let me just ride around and practice the clutch issue. I then spent a few mins riding around the entire site (the DAS people were gone) - so I was able to practice a bit more at speed - albeit as I was going around in circles I had to keep slowing down/up. I then misjudged the turning circle and ended up outside the cones on a slippery area where dirt had built up and ended up going down quite heavily. Mud all down my jeans but they didn't rip. When I got home though I did have a graze on the side of my knee, I guess from skin to knee contact.
Then we have a chat and I say I've had enough. TBF to the instructor, he agrees to let me practice on the automatic scooter and if I can do the turns etc I can join the road test. I have a go and it is SO much easier. But my mind is a bit frazzled from everything else and I am not controlling the throttle properly and my turns are not great that I just say I've had enough for the day.
So all that considered, I think on one hand I should just count myself lucky that I have been under a bike twice and walked away. Say I have had a go and leave it at that. One the other hand I feel I should complete the CBT at least as a challenge, probably with another school and maybe with some 1 to 1 coaching. On my third hand I am thinking maybe do the CBT but just on the auto as it will make like so much easier and in reality, in the long run, I would probably settle on an auto anyway.
Having come home and reflected on it, I do feel the learning portion was too short. Many online websites suggest 5 or 6 hours learning before you get onto the road. My concern with going back and doing a CBT is ending up in the same situation again where its all rushed. I'd probably prefer 1 to 1 training.
The other thing with a manual is that I was so focussed on gears/braking that all the other usual driving stuff like mirror checks were almost out the window.
Injury wise, my shoulder is hurting from shoulder barging the tarmac and knee has a graze. Body generally feels a bit battered.
It is utterly baffling to me that a 16/17 year old can spend hours on a CBT and then be out on the road without any other sort of testing or training. I accept others can get a hold of the controls much quicker than I can, but still...it sounds too short of a time in my view, particularly with all the other road stuff going on you have to deal with.
By way of background - been driving a car for about 20 years, a manual for probably 6 years and then automatic for the last 14 or so year.
Wanted to do a CBT to learn for pleasure (so no real pressure on me).
Decided to do manual as I assumed it would give me more options later. As it happens the bike I want is a Honda Rebel 500 which is manual but the Rebel 1000 does come in automatic (but its more than I want to spend)
If it sounds like I am blaming my Instructor below, it is because I am but I also accept I wasn't competent.
Chose a school that are quite big/popular/well reviewed in my area.
So turn up just before 9am. The other two people are from abroad and I sense they are learning to be delivery drivers. It was clear from the off there would be minor language barriers between the instructor and the other two students. In fact the first question I was asked was whether I speak English so I assume they get a lot of clients who are from abroad and doing delivery driving etc on a moped.
I asked how long the day would be and instructor says it can be 9 to 2 or it can be 9 to 6 - all depends on the students - but then goes on to say he has to leave by 3 so if any extra training is needed it will be on another day. I should add it was cold and raining and we are in a shipping container - whilst none of this is critical, the mood wasn't very positive.
The other thing to mention was that he said as he can only take 2 on the road at a time we would have to go person A and B first, then A and C, and then C and B. Meaning the road test would take 3 hours and two of the students would have to wait for an hour. The relevance of this is that the off road training would be completed by 12 to allow for those 3 hours.
I was told beforehand that I had to bring boots and jeans. The only boots I have are cheap and nasty steel toe cap ones work provide - they are very clunky. The Instructor said I may have problems with them as I would struggle to control the clutch without having the right feel (and TBF he was definitely right). After signing a disclaimer he let me ride with my trainers on. One of the other guys turned up in tracksuit bottoms and was allowed to ride in them. I didn't want to buy gear in advance in case I didn't want to proceed.
So we start in the classroom and spend about 10-15 mins talking about gear. He mentions if a helmet is dropped it should be binned.
We then go outside to the training area. Best way to describe it is a tarmac tennis court in a school - but a bit wider. It is split into two as there are DAS trainers on one half.
The other two students are riding automatic scooters and I have a Yamaha - not sure exactly what - maybe a YBR - but I think it was 125cc.
We then start the process of learning controls etc .We started practicing straight lines. I had some problems balancing the bike and ended up dropping it (whilst stationary) and ended up under it.
I then started started getting the hang of the bike but I think I over think things and started to make mistakes - for example when braking, using the throttle at the same time. Or braking but not pulling the clutch.
I had problems mastering the clutch and I felt like not enough time was given for me to just properly go back and forth in gear 1. The instructor kept telling me to change gear and prove I could do it but it felt very rushed. Being on a small practice area didn't help.
I also felt like I was holding things up as the other two were progressing well. TBF the instructor did give me some extra goes for extra practice here and there.
We then move onto doing stuff like figure of 8, U Turns, turning left and right.
The other two were easily doing what they needed to do driving wise but he was getting a bit annoyed at them for not following instructions (e.g. road positions when to turn etc).
The final thing was the emergency stop. The big problem I had here was he wanted me to get up to speed/gear change but I didn't feel confident in going fast because the length of the 'road' was not long and I was concerned about going too fast when I know I had difficulty braking properly - I could end up hitting the fence.
After this we had a discussion - he said he wasn't confident for me to go onto the road and I said I wasn't confident either as I hadn't mastered the clutch. Personally I feel like I need a day on just doing clutch and braking. I asked if they did pay as you go one on one sessions but he said no.
The other two had gone in for their Highway Code/safety learning and I heard the instructor tell them they would not be allowed out on the road if they could not understand. I also heard him talk to another instructor about his frustration with having too many foreign students on one course as it is hard work (we had another foreign student who turned up too late and was not allowed on the course). The point I am making here is that he was probably frustrated with me not learning fast enough and the other two not following instructions.
It is now around 11 or 11.15 - so the off road training was a max of 2 hours. The actual driving time was maybe 60-90 mins max.
TBF the instructor says that if another instructor can do the class learning with the two other trainees, he will let me just ride around and practice the clutch issue. I then spent a few mins riding around the entire site (the DAS people were gone) - so I was able to practice a bit more at speed - albeit as I was going around in circles I had to keep slowing down/up. I then misjudged the turning circle and ended up outside the cones on a slippery area where dirt had built up and ended up going down quite heavily. Mud all down my jeans but they didn't rip. When I got home though I did have a graze on the side of my knee, I guess from skin to knee contact.
Then we have a chat and I say I've had enough. TBF to the instructor, he agrees to let me practice on the automatic scooter and if I can do the turns etc I can join the road test. I have a go and it is SO much easier. But my mind is a bit frazzled from everything else and I am not controlling the throttle properly and my turns are not great that I just say I've had enough for the day.
So all that considered, I think on one hand I should just count myself lucky that I have been under a bike twice and walked away. Say I have had a go and leave it at that. One the other hand I feel I should complete the CBT at least as a challenge, probably with another school and maybe with some 1 to 1 coaching. On my third hand I am thinking maybe do the CBT but just on the auto as it will make like so much easier and in reality, in the long run, I would probably settle on an auto anyway.
Having come home and reflected on it, I do feel the learning portion was too short. Many online websites suggest 5 or 6 hours learning before you get onto the road. My concern with going back and doing a CBT is ending up in the same situation again where its all rushed. I'd probably prefer 1 to 1 training.
The other thing with a manual is that I was so focussed on gears/braking that all the other usual driving stuff like mirror checks were almost out the window.
Injury wise, my shoulder is hurting from shoulder barging the tarmac and knee has a graze. Body generally feels a bit battered.
It is utterly baffling to me that a 16/17 year old can spend hours on a CBT and then be out on the road without any other sort of testing or training. I accept others can get a hold of the controls much quicker than I can, but still...it sounds too short of a time in my view, particularly with all the other road stuff going on you have to deal with.
Edited by Mojooo on Sunday 28th April 14:25
The reason 16 & 17 years olds can do it is arrogance and invincibility. They can do anything, they reckon, so they just go at it. I'm not a qualified instructor and I passed my test the first year CBT came in so it's been a while. You said yourself you were overthinking and that sounds absolutely spot on. You were also bothered about holding people up, what the instructor thought and felt about you and all sorts of other things those invincible teenage motherfathers couldn't give a hoot about. f
k all that st. Your mission is all about you.
RELAX! Then relax. Too much thinking makes you tense. Good riding is all about being smooth. Brakes are pretty good, even on a 125, so a big handful of front with some rear if you remember where it is will stop you well before that fence. If it doesn't you won't die. It's not your fence or your bike, so that's no longer a concern.
The controls are on the same sides as a car, really. Throttle and brake(s) on the right, clutch and gears on the left - lucky you living in a RHD country!
Perhaps give the school a call and see if you can go down and pay to just ride around the space a bit before going for it again. You'll get it. Once you do, you've joined the cool kids club and you're on the brink of a fabulous rest of your life!
k all that st. Your mission is all about you.RELAX! Then relax. Too much thinking makes you tense. Good riding is all about being smooth. Brakes are pretty good, even on a 125, so a big handful of front with some rear if you remember where it is will stop you well before that fence. If it doesn't you won't die. It's not your fence or your bike, so that's no longer a concern.
The controls are on the same sides as a car, really. Throttle and brake(s) on the right, clutch and gears on the left - lucky you living in a RHD country!
Perhaps give the school a call and see if you can go down and pay to just ride around the space a bit before going for it again. You'll get it. Once you do, you've joined the cool kids club and you're on the brink of a fabulous rest of your life!
If the CBT was anything like actually being a biker there would be even fewer of us.
The CBT is something you need to endure.
I think you got a bad one but most have poor facilities and often indifferent people doing the training.
I’d advise finding one where are happy with the training area as it makes all the difference.
I did mine on a heavily sloped small car park and it definitely doesn’t help.
Don’t be put off just yet.
The CBT is something you need to endure.
I think you got a bad one but most have poor facilities and often indifferent people doing the training.
I’d advise finding one where are happy with the training area as it makes all the difference.
I did mine on a heavily sloped small car park and it definitely doesn’t help.
Don’t be put off just yet.
Edited by trickywoo on Sunday 28th April 15:24
I don't mean to come across as a bit of an arse but have you ridden a bicycle or anything on two wheels recently. The CBT isn't difficult, and that you managed to fall off twice is a concern (gears or not).
When I did my CBT someone fell off in the training area and they weren't allowed out on the road. I thought it was a bit silly to do a CBT without any basic bike handling skills.
It might be best to spend a bit of time cycling to improve the basic skills of riding a bike, and then do the CBT on a scooter if you feel comfortable.
You can then buy a geared bike to learn in your own time.
My experience of the CBT is that they give you basic knowledge to help you not kill yourself. They don't teach you how to ride a bike.
When I did my CBT someone fell off in the training area and they weren't allowed out on the road. I thought it was a bit silly to do a CBT without any basic bike handling skills.
It might be best to spend a bit of time cycling to improve the basic skills of riding a bike, and then do the CBT on a scooter if you feel comfortable.
You can then buy a geared bike to learn in your own time.
My experience of the CBT is that they give you basic knowledge to help you not kill yourself. They don't teach you how to ride a bike.
I’d echo what others have said esp the ride for yourself (this doesn’t change ever) don’t worry about what others are doing necessarily; your primary concern is about keeping yourself safe and out of danger. People learn at different rates so don’t worry about the speed at which you pick things up and feel confident. Take as long as you need: being on an nsl on a 125 can be quite intimidating as a learner as pretty much everything around you is bigger and travelling as fast or faster. As you have discovered falling off can hurt, and you’ve experienced that at slow speeds in controlled conditions.
When you start any new skill all your actions will require conscious effort, and therefore you need to allow yourself much more thinking time whilst performing the skill; it doesn’t take long before you are flicking down through the gears and trail braking into corners or offset roundabouts to join flow smoothly; it took me beyond the DAS before my thinking time was similar to that required in a car, and after driving fairly swiftly for the 25 years prior the thinking time and distance required to travel without getting in a muddle esp before a junction was a bit of a shocker e.g. I was thinking about things that you did subconsciously in a car: sorting approach speed, angle of attack, braking, gear changes and throttle whilst observing the dynamic environment around you approaching a roundabout.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but it doesn’t sound like you’re exactly a natural: you’re having issues controlling the throttle and balance in a straight line. speak to some schools and seek their advice, you won’t be the 1st or last in the same situation. It’s worth enquiring whether there are any basic intro sessions you can do to build confidence before giving the CBT another go. Give it another try or 3 but there is also no harm in admitting defeat and deciding it’s not for you.
When you start any new skill all your actions will require conscious effort, and therefore you need to allow yourself much more thinking time whilst performing the skill; it doesn’t take long before you are flicking down through the gears and trail braking into corners or offset roundabouts to join flow smoothly; it took me beyond the DAS before my thinking time was similar to that required in a car, and after driving fairly swiftly for the 25 years prior the thinking time and distance required to travel without getting in a muddle esp before a junction was a bit of a shocker e.g. I was thinking about things that you did subconsciously in a car: sorting approach speed, angle of attack, braking, gear changes and throttle whilst observing the dynamic environment around you approaching a roundabout.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but it doesn’t sound like you’re exactly a natural: you’re having issues controlling the throttle and balance in a straight line. speak to some schools and seek their advice, you won’t be the 1st or last in the same situation. It’s worth enquiring whether there are any basic intro sessions you can do to build confidence before giving the CBT another go. Give it another try or 3 but there is also no harm in admitting defeat and deciding it’s not for you.
The tuition sounds really st, when I did it a million years ago everyone was on CG125s as it's a bit different to twist and go scooters, which the school did but in a different group. IIRC they did spend more time with those unsure or nervous or just lacking in bike control but everyone was ready to go on the road after a day and a half. A tuition space with accumulated mud to slide on is just negligence, it's not rocket science that it needs to be flat concrete or tarmac that's been swept clean.
t, when I did it a million years ago everyone was on CG125s as it's a bit different to twist and go scooters, which the school did but in a different group. IIRC they did spend more time with those unsure or nervous or just lacking in bike control but everyone was ready to go on the road after a day and a half. A tuition space with accumulated mud to slide on is just negligence, it's not rocket science that it needs to be flat concrete or tarmac that's been swept clean.I'm not sure why it's baffling to you that 16/17 year olds can do a CBT and then get out on the road.
Politely here, but many of them have managed to do a CBT with only the few hours training while not falling off twice. You didn't. You having a car licence that they don't have doesn't mean for much if you're hitting the deck on a car park.
Definitely try again (on a geared bike). Try a different school if you've a bee in your bonnet over this one. But an hour or two of trundling round on a 125 is more than enough to get the basics down. Some people just need more time. There was a woman on her 3rd CBT day when I was doing mine, and they still refused to let her out on the road afterwards because she was all over the place
Politely here, but many of them have managed to do a CBT with only the few hours training while not falling off twice. You didn't. You having a car licence that they don't have doesn't mean for much if you're hitting the deck on a car park.
Definitely try again (on a geared bike). Try a different school if you've a bee in your bonnet over this one. But an hour or two of trundling round on a 125 is more than enough to get the basics down. Some people just need more time. There was a woman on her 3rd CBT day when I was doing mine, and they still refused to let her out on the road afterwards because she was all over the place
Donbot said:
I don't mean to come across as a bit of an arse but have you ridden a bicycle or anything on two wheels recently. The CBT isn't difficult, and that you managed to fall off twice is a concern (gears or not).
When I did my CBT someone fell off in the training area and they weren't allowed out on the road. I thought it was a bit silly to do a CBT without any basic bike handling skills.
It might be best to spend a bit of time cycling to improve the basic skills of riding a bike, and then do the CBT on a scooter if you feel comfortable.
You can then buy a geared bike to learn in your own time.
My experience of the CBT is that they give you basic knowledge to help you not kill yourself. They don't teach you how to ride a bike.
This ^ practicing on a push bike is invaluable especially low speed and tight exercises. The amount of ‘highly experienced’ bikers who can’t manage a hairpin or have a confidence breakdown when things get slow and technical never fails to surprise me When I did my CBT someone fell off in the training area and they weren't allowed out on the road. I thought it was a bit silly to do a CBT without any basic bike handling skills.
It might be best to spend a bit of time cycling to improve the basic skills of riding a bike, and then do the CBT on a scooter if you feel comfortable.
You can then buy a geared bike to learn in your own time.
My experience of the CBT is that they give you basic knowledge to help you not kill yourself. They don't teach you how to ride a bike.
Maybe stick to cars… not being funny but if you fell on the CBT and didn’t have basic bike balance/control. For your own sake just focus on something else.
Bike riding is dangerous and a small mistake can be fatal. Your natural ability is not there on the basics… what would happen on a real emergency? Yes you can practice and learn but I would err on the side of caution and look for another hobby.
Bike riding is dangerous and a small mistake can be fatal. Your natural ability is not there on the basics… what would happen on a real emergency? Yes you can practice and learn but I would err on the side of caution and look for another hobby.
CrgT16 said:
Maybe stick to cars… not being funny but if you fell on the CBT and didn’t have basic bike balance/control. For your own sake just focus on something else.
Bike riding is dangerous and a small mistake can be fatal. Your natural ability is not there on the basics… what would happen on a real emergency? Yes you can practice and learn but I would err on the side of caution and look for another hobby.
This. You seem to have just done it on a bit of a whim. So maybe try something else. It sounds harsh, but it might be in your best interests.Bike riding is dangerous and a small mistake can be fatal. Your natural ability is not there on the basics… what would happen on a real emergency? Yes you can practice and learn but I would err on the side of caution and look for another hobby.
Edited by Piston-slapper on Sunday 28th April 19:03
Alas delivery a CBT and making money are not always easy to balance, particularly when so many people say anybody can pass a CBT.
Doing the job properly at a price people will pay isn't necessary easy. Cutting corners can make the school a lot more money.
The school you chose sounds poor on several levels. Read google reviews of others. I would advise looking for one that has a 2 to1 instructor ratio the whole way through the day. As 3 to 1 will result in the difficulty of the road ride that you describe AND shows the show is focused on making the money (or is selling too cheap).
CBTs should be enjoyable.
Many people don't get through on the first day, but why should that be surprising? Any school that gets anyone through in one day should lose their licence.
Doing the job properly at a price people will pay isn't necessary easy. Cutting corners can make the school a lot more money.
The school you chose sounds poor on several levels. Read google reviews of others. I would advise looking for one that has a 2 to1 instructor ratio the whole way through the day. As 3 to 1 will result in the difficulty of the road ride that you describe AND shows the show is focused on making the money (or is selling too cheap).
CBTs should be enjoyable.
Many people don't get through on the first day, but why should that be surprising? Any school that gets anyone through in one day should lose their licence.
CrgT16 said:
Maybe stick to cars… not being funny but if you fell on the CBT and didn’t have basic bike balance/control. For your own sake just focus on something else.
Bike riding is dangerous and a small mistake can be fatal. Your natural ability is not there on the basics… what would happen on a real emergency? Yes you can practice and learn but I would err on the side of caution and look for another hobby.
I disagree. Many people take time to learn new skills. Bike riding is dangerous and a small mistake can be fatal. Your natural ability is not there on the basics… what would happen on a real emergency? Yes you can practice and learn but I would err on the side of caution and look for another hobby.
I trained a servicing police chappy. Quite senior and err not exactly in his teens or twenties... Blues/Twos, Response trained in cars, but struggled with bike control initially. CBT, DAS and then advanced, He's a fine rider and given all his police training (albeit in cars) I suspect he is very well above the average rider.
OverSteery said:
CrgT16 said:
Maybe stick to cars… not being funny but if you fell on the CBT and didn’t have basic bike balance/control. For your own sake just focus on something else.
Bike riding is dangerous and a small mistake can be fatal. Your natural ability is not there on the basics… what would happen on a real emergency? Yes you can practice and learn but I would err on the side of caution and look for another hobby.
I disagree. Many people take time to learn new skills. Bike riding is dangerous and a small mistake can be fatal. Your natural ability is not there on the basics… what would happen on a real emergency? Yes you can practice and learn but I would err on the side of caution and look for another hobby.
I trained a servicing police chappy. Quite senior and err not exactly in his teens or twenties... Blues/Twos, Response trained in cars, but struggled with bike control initially. CBT, DAS and then advanced, He's a fine rider and given all his police training (albeit in cars) I suspect he is very well above the average rider.
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