Are quickshifters inherantly bad for the gearbox?

[Biker9090]

Still looking into the contender to swap my VFR1200F for and obviously a lot of the newer stuff have quickshifters fitted. However I keep seeing an increase in the amount of gearbox failures attributed to quickshifters (KTM 1290, Triumph Speed Triple etc etc etc).

Having never used one before and not being bothered about using one, are they to be avoided? Treated to extreme care, or what? I don't even do clutchless changes as I've never found it an issue to use the clutch.

Just curious.....

[TT1138]

I assume that the big brands wouldn’t have one as a factory option if it was likely to damage the gearbox.

You do need to use them with some mechanical sympathy. I regularly see people complaining about crap quickshifters then they tell you they’ve been using it to shift from 1st to 2nd at 1500rpm…

[trickywoo]

You can clutchless up shift on most bikes without a quick shifter and it does no harm.

Downshifting has more potential to go wrong but a properly set up ignition cut system ideally with a strain gauge and not a simple switch won’t harm a gearbox.

That being said a lot of people will use the clutch between 1st and 2nd even with a good qs.

[Tango13]

Having seen and heard the superbikes at Cadwell Park as they exit the chicane just before the bridge I always use the clutch between first and second.

I only really use mine above about 3,000 rpm on the open road. Not much use for stop start traffic in town, just means I I get a smoother change 1st>2nd.

[Biker9090]

TT1138 said:

I assume that the big brands wouldn’t have one as a factory option if it was likely to damage the gearbox.

I didn't think so but just seem to be seeing so many comments on them being responsible for damage....

[the cueball]

I only use my Q/S when on WOT... and never between 1 and 2... or indeed 2 to 1.

On bikes with no Q/S I tend to change up without the clutch (again not between 1 and 2), and try to rev match on the way down.

Never damaged a gearbox.

[trickywoo]

Two good videos explaining from MC garage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viWuolNYGyI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlBhPZdVqb8

[Krikkit]

Biker9090 said:

TT1138 said:

I assume that the big brands wouldn’t have one as a factory option if it was likely to damage the gearbox.

I didn't think so but just seem to be seeing so many comments on them being responsible for damage....

The problem is two-fold - riders who don't understand them, and imperfect calibration.

Like swiss cheese, most of the time if you have even a bad one and know how to use it properly it's fine, or the reverse - a really good one used badly is fine too. However, if you're not using it properly and it's not particularly well coded into the bike, it can lead to accelerated wear.

[trickywoo]

Tango13 said:

Having seen and heard the superbikes at Cadwell Park as they exit the chicane just before the bridge I always use the clutch between first and second.

Road bikes or BSB?

[P675]

Use mine every gear change on the S1000R. Been doing it for 9 months and not had a problem, wouldn't get a bike without one now.

[Bob_Defly]

P675 said:

Use mine every gear change on the S1000R. Been doing it for 9 months and not had a problem, wouldn't get a bike without one now.

I actually don't miss mine that much, the Tiger 900 had a really good one, but I felt like it was too much liking driving an automatic.

[podman]

Was in a local dealers a few weeks back and he was rebuilding a box on an older ZX10 which he believed a poorly set up aftermarket quickshifter was the cause.(cant remember the brand now)

From seeing that and having used OE factory quickshifters for several years now without issue, my take on it is an OE system causes no issue, a poorly set up aftermarket one could do.

[trickywoo]

podman said:

Was in a local dealers a few weeks back and he was rebuilding a box on an older ZX10 which he believed a poorly set up aftermarket quickshifter was the cause.(cant remember the brand now)

From seeing that and having used OE factory quickshifters for several years now without issue, my take on it is an OE system causes no issue, a poorly set up aftermarket one could do.

Maybe but more than one model year ZX10R is known for a weak gearbox.

[podman]

trickywoo said:

podman said:

Was in a local dealers a few weeks back and he was rebuilding a box on an older ZX10 which he believed a poorly set up aftermarket quickshifter was the cause.(cant remember the brand now)

From seeing that and having used OE factory quickshifters for several years now without issue, my take on it is an OE system causes no issue, a poorly set up aftermarket one could do.

Maybe but more than one model year ZX10R is known for a weak gearbox.

For sure but he is an engine specialist so I valued his opinion on quickshifters in general.

[Tango13]

trickywoo said:

Tango13 said:

Having seen and heard the superbikes at Cadwell Park as they exit the chicane just before the bridge I always use the clutch between first and second.

Road bikes or BSB?

BSB

If you stand in just the right spot you can sometimes see daylight under the rear tyre as all the drive disappears for a fraction of a second allowing the sidewall of the tyre to unload. First time I saw it happen I thought I imagined it but sure enough it happened again and again on the following laps.

As for the sound of the poor gearbox engaging second...

[trickywoo]

Tango13 said:

trickywoo said:

Tango13 said:

Having seen and heard the superbikes at Cadwell Park as they exit the chicane just before the bridge I always use the clutch between first and second.

Road bikes or BSB?

BSB

If you stand in just the right spot you can sometimes see daylight under the rear tyre as all the drive disappears for a fraction of a second allowing the sidewall of the tyre to unload. First time I saw it happen I thought I imagined it but sure enough it happened again and again on the following laps.

As for the sound of the poor gearbox engaging second...

A lot (most?) of the BSB bikes run a Nova box which puts neutral before 1st so there is no gap between 1st and 2nd. They use an external selector to get neutral which is otherwise locked out.

[Tango13]

trickywoo said:

Tango13 said:

trickywoo said:

Tango13 said:

Having seen and heard the superbikes at Cadwell Park as they exit the chicane just before the bridge I always use the clutch between first and second.

Road bikes or BSB?

BSB

If you stand in just the right spot you can sometimes see daylight under the rear tyre as all the drive disappears for a fraction of a second allowing the sidewall of the tyre to unload. First time I saw it happen I thought I imagined it but sure enough it happened again and again on the following laps.

As for the sound of the poor gearbox engaging second...

A lot (most?) of the BSB bikes run a Nova box which puts neutral before 1st so there is no gap between 1st and 2nd. They use an external selector to get neutral which is otherwise locked out.

This was going back a few years, about 2018 iirc

Wasn't there a Kawasaki road bike that had neutral at the bottom back in the 70's, KH750 springs to mind?

[black-k1]

Quickshifters have been about for some significant time even as OEM fitment (my first bike with a OEM quickshifter was 11 years ago). Has anyone noticed a higher rate of gearbox failures in the last 10 to 15 years? I've not read/heard of anything.

[gareth_r]

Tango13 said:

This was going back a few years, about 2018 iirc

Wasn't there a Kawasaki road bike that had neutral at the bottom back in the 70's, KH750 springs to mind?

That was a Kawasaki (stupid) thing until the Z1 IIRC.

There was a reason why Velocette designed the first positive-stop footchange with neutral between 1 and 2.

[Biker9090]

The more I dig into this on the 1290 it seems to be a "missed shift" with the QS between 5th and 6th, it then engages and the box goes boom.....