Taking Motorcycles To France In A Van - Carnet ?
Discussion
I've had a google and seen a few older threads on here - has anyone done similar recently ?
I'm intending to use my van to take a road and enduro bike to France for 2 weeks
Both are road registered
Is the Carnet situation cleared up now - particularly when taking 2 bikes ?
Below is from MCN Feb '21
Who needs a carnet to take a bike to Europe?
Official advice given by the Greater Birmingham Chambers of Commerce (GBCC), who have partnered with the ACU and Motorsport UK to provide discounted carnets, says that in very simple terms road-legal bikes (so that’s numberplate, V5, tax, MoT, insurance and green card) transported by the owner do not need a carnet while non road-legal bikes (such as track bikes or motocross bikes without numberplates or V5s) will need the document.
Anecdotal evidence, however, suggests that confusion at the ports means that some customs officers are asking to see carnets for road-legal vehicles. If you turn up at the port without a carnet and the customs officers think you should have one and you can’t convince them otherwise, they have the right to turn you away, which could end your trip on the spot.
I'm intending to use my van to take a road and enduro bike to France for 2 weeks
Both are road registered
Is the Carnet situation cleared up now - particularly when taking 2 bikes ?
Below is from MCN Feb '21
Who needs a carnet to take a bike to Europe?
Official advice given by the Greater Birmingham Chambers of Commerce (GBCC), who have partnered with the ACU and Motorsport UK to provide discounted carnets, says that in very simple terms road-legal bikes (so that’s numberplate, V5, tax, MoT, insurance and green card) transported by the owner do not need a carnet while non road-legal bikes (such as track bikes or motocross bikes without numberplates or V5s) will need the document.
Anecdotal evidence, however, suggests that confusion at the ports means that some customs officers are asking to see carnets for road-legal vehicles. If you turn up at the port without a carnet and the customs officers think you should have one and you can’t convince them otherwise, they have the right to turn you away, which could end your trip on the spot.
It's a f*cking nightmare!!
Essentially, there is no such Carnet for taking road registered/road legal bikes into Europe via France however, the French customs exist...
An ATA Carnet is for moving commercial goods and a CPD Carnet isn't applicable in France, nor anywhere else in Europe.
We decided to travel via holland for a track weekend in Spa last year because there was no definitive solution for travelling via France and we heard numerous first and second-hand accounts of people being stopped in France and fined before being allowed to proceed.
Even the TD organiser composed a letter to print and take to substantiate the purpose of the trip being purely recreational etc., no different to taking a pair of skis or a mountain bike but they very quickly retracted it as that apparently made the situation worse!
Unfortunately I can't tell you what you need to do to avoid issues because as far as I can work out, no-one knows, not even the people at the CoC offices.
Travel via anywhere other than France would be my advice.
Essentially, there is no such Carnet for taking road registered/road legal bikes into Europe via France however, the French customs exist...
An ATA Carnet is for moving commercial goods and a CPD Carnet isn't applicable in France, nor anywhere else in Europe.
We decided to travel via holland for a track weekend in Spa last year because there was no definitive solution for travelling via France and we heard numerous first and second-hand accounts of people being stopped in France and fined before being allowed to proceed.
Even the TD organiser composed a letter to print and take to substantiate the purpose of the trip being purely recreational etc., no different to taking a pair of skis or a mountain bike but they very quickly retracted it as that apparently made the situation worse!
Unfortunately I can't tell you what you need to do to avoid issues because as far as I can work out, no-one knows, not even the people at the CoC offices.
Travel via anywhere other than France would be my advice.
I can't really help other than to ask a question. I assume both bikes and the van are registered to you. If that's the case, and you are travelling with the bikes/van, is there actually any real complication?
My (admittedly very limited) understanding was that the problems occurred when the bikes were being moved other than by the owner/registered keeper.
My (admittedly very limited) understanding was that the problems occurred when the bikes were being moved other than by the owner/registered keeper.
That's another question I'm asking on a Dealer's forum 
They will be taxed and insured and obviously I'm taking all my riding gear rather than just a van with 2 bikes in it
However as Rob has posted the French customs can be awkward with one bike, let alone two
People who don't ride bikes, don't understand why you need n+1
They will be taxed and insured and obviously I'm taking all my riding gear rather than just a van with 2 bikes in it
However as Rob has posted the French customs can be awkward with one bike, let alone two
People who don't ride bikes, don't understand why you need n+1
Things have moved on since the advice offered in MCN 2021, based largely on advice from an organisation offering discounted carnets.
This is more up to date
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/motorcycle-...
and links to this
https://assets.website-files.com/60364ce44148d168e...
We regularly take mountain bikes and associated spares to France via the tunnel. Some of which have as much commercial value as a motorbike. The French staff at the tunnel are uninterested.
Best to have the right paperwork as "insurance" if you do come across an official who is interested.
I've taken rally cars and spares to the continent back in the late 80s when carnets were required. We were waved through via the port we used. Others on the way to the same events but using different ports were given the full tip your van contents out and shows us your paperwork treatment.
This is more up to date
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/motorcycle-...
and links to this
https://assets.website-files.com/60364ce44148d168e...
We regularly take mountain bikes and associated spares to France via the tunnel. Some of which have as much commercial value as a motorbike. The French staff at the tunnel are uninterested.
Best to have the right paperwork as "insurance" if you do come across an official who is interested.
I've taken rally cars and spares to the continent back in the late 80s when carnets were required. We were waved through via the port we used. Others on the way to the same events but using different ports were given the full tip your van contents out and shows us your paperwork treatment.
Edited by Wingo on Friday 15th December 10:57
Wingo said:
Things have moved on since the advice offered in MCN 2021, based largely on advice from an organisation offering discounted carnets.
This is more up to date
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/motorcycle-...
and links to this
https://assets.website-files.com/60364ce44148d168e...
We regularly take mountain bikes and associated spares to France via the tunnel. Some of which have as much commercial value as a motorbike. The French staff at the tunnel are uninterested.
Best to have the right paperwork as "insurance" if you do come across an official who is interested.
I've taken rally cars and spares to the continent back in the late 80s when carnets were required. We were waved through via the port we used. Others on the way to the same events but using different ports were given the full tip your van contents out and shows us your paperwork treatment.
Thanks, whilst the link helps it's disconcerting that it repeatedly says it's not legally binding and is only general adviceThis is more up to date
https://www.britishmotorcyclists.co.uk/motorcycle-...
and links to this
https://assets.website-files.com/60364ce44148d168e...
We regularly take mountain bikes and associated spares to France via the tunnel. Some of which have as much commercial value as a motorbike. The French staff at the tunnel are uninterested.
Best to have the right paperwork as "insurance" if you do come across an official who is interested.
I've taken rally cars and spares to the continent back in the late 80s when carnets were required. We were waved through via the port we used. Others on the way to the same events but using different ports were given the full tip your van contents out and shows us your paperwork treatment.
As your Rally Experience shows, French Customs can treat the same load very differently
On the plus side my "van" is a Traveliner (with tinted windows) so probably won't be stopped leaving the UK
I took my bike in my van to Spa via the Dover Calais ferry in August without a carnet and didn't have any problems. I got stopped by customs on my return to Dover and they checked the van but were most interested in whether I had any tobacco. I had both v5s but he didn't even want to look at them.
Took two GB registered bikes from Dover to Calais and then returned Cherbourg to Dublin earlier this year in the back of a van.
There is a voluntary customs declaration you can fill in and we did have sitting ready if needed but they were more interested in how much booze and fags we were bringing home. Think they were maybe shocked two 1200GS Adventures fitted into a Ducato more than anything else.
There is a voluntary customs declaration you can fill in and we did have sitting ready if needed but they were more interested in how much booze and fags we were bringing home. Think they were maybe shocked two 1200GS Adventures fitted into a Ducato more than anything else.
I took my Panigale V4 and four friends V4s (five bikes in total) in an enclosed trailer down to Italy and back in the summer, crossing via the tunnel.
We debated at length whether we needed a carnet. We spoke at length with CoC in Birmingham, who thought we didn't need one. I had someone in my office who is French phone the numbers given for Customs in Calais and they were adamant we needed one. But neither really understood what we doing. In the end, because I was driving and the other owners weren't present, we went ahead and got one. They were all track bikes but had V5's.
The cost wasn't too bad but the whole process is not geared up to dealing with private individuals. On the UK side you have to go Sevington, just off the M20 to be stamped out. This involves an initial check point then being directed to a specific parking bay in the next section. You take your Carnet to one of the portakabins, queue up and then hand the paperwork in. You leave your mobile number and then wait in your vehicle for them to text you that the paperwork is ready. You then go back, queue up again and collect the paperwork. I was the only non-freight vehicle there, all the rest are commercial trucks and vans. It didn't take too long on the way out, probably 45-60 mins.
Because I was travelling on the passenger train and not the freight, I then had to find customs on the French side. The freight trains carrying the lorries go to a slightly different place and customs is right there for you to be checked in. On the passenger one, you're straight onto the motorway but there's an exit you can take to customs. I had to be buzzed through the gate into the customs area by a very confused person who clearly wasn't expecting anyone other than freight. Once in the building the French customs dealt with it incredibly efficiently and my Carnet was stamped and sorted in less than 10 mins.
Technically I should have stopped at Italian customs on the way in and out of the country but I didn't bother and nobody checked.
On the way back, there is a counter in the Eurotunnel passenger terminal at Calais. A very nice customs lady stamped my Carnet and I was on my way in less than 3 minutes.
When I got to the UK I had to go back to Sevington and go through the same process as the way out. Except this time I was sitting in my car waiting for them to sort the paperwork for over 2 hours! I have no idea what took so long, maybe just a busy day. It certainly wasn't an issue with the paperwork.
So in summary, the whole thing was a royal pain in the backside. The system is only geared up for commercial freight and not private individuals. At no point did any customs people want to look inside the trailer, neither at the tunnel or the various customs places, to check what was on the Carnet matched the actual goods. They just did not care.
Three other friends on that trip took their track bikes on an open trailer down to Italy and back, also via the tunnel. All three owners in the car but no carnet. Went through both ways no problem at all.
If I was to do it again, I honestly would not bother with a Carnet. It does not seem designed for people taking their track bikes temporarily over to Europe. Nobody at any of the crossing asked to see the Carnet or look in the trailer.
There is a chance you could get stopped, we've all heard the stories, but frankly it's a risk I'd take after going through all of that. The French side is very efficient, the UK side is much more of rigmarole. It could take 30 mins or 3 hours, you have no way of knowing.
We debated at length whether we needed a carnet. We spoke at length with CoC in Birmingham, who thought we didn't need one. I had someone in my office who is French phone the numbers given for Customs in Calais and they were adamant we needed one. But neither really understood what we doing. In the end, because I was driving and the other owners weren't present, we went ahead and got one. They were all track bikes but had V5's.
The cost wasn't too bad but the whole process is not geared up to dealing with private individuals. On the UK side you have to go Sevington, just off the M20 to be stamped out. This involves an initial check point then being directed to a specific parking bay in the next section. You take your Carnet to one of the portakabins, queue up and then hand the paperwork in. You leave your mobile number and then wait in your vehicle for them to text you that the paperwork is ready. You then go back, queue up again and collect the paperwork. I was the only non-freight vehicle there, all the rest are commercial trucks and vans. It didn't take too long on the way out, probably 45-60 mins.
Because I was travelling on the passenger train and not the freight, I then had to find customs on the French side. The freight trains carrying the lorries go to a slightly different place and customs is right there for you to be checked in. On the passenger one, you're straight onto the motorway but there's an exit you can take to customs. I had to be buzzed through the gate into the customs area by a very confused person who clearly wasn't expecting anyone other than freight. Once in the building the French customs dealt with it incredibly efficiently and my Carnet was stamped and sorted in less than 10 mins.
Technically I should have stopped at Italian customs on the way in and out of the country but I didn't bother and nobody checked.
On the way back, there is a counter in the Eurotunnel passenger terminal at Calais. A very nice customs lady stamped my Carnet and I was on my way in less than 3 minutes.
When I got to the UK I had to go back to Sevington and go through the same process as the way out. Except this time I was sitting in my car waiting for them to sort the paperwork for over 2 hours! I have no idea what took so long, maybe just a busy day. It certainly wasn't an issue with the paperwork.
So in summary, the whole thing was a royal pain in the backside. The system is only geared up for commercial freight and not private individuals. At no point did any customs people want to look inside the trailer, neither at the tunnel or the various customs places, to check what was on the Carnet matched the actual goods. They just did not care.
Three other friends on that trip took their track bikes on an open trailer down to Italy and back, also via the tunnel. All three owners in the car but no carnet. Went through both ways no problem at all.
If I was to do it again, I honestly would not bother with a Carnet. It does not seem designed for people taking their track bikes temporarily over to Europe. Nobody at any of the crossing asked to see the Carnet or look in the trailer.
There is a chance you could get stopped, we've all heard the stories, but frankly it's a risk I'd take after going through all of that. The French side is very efficient, the UK side is much more of rigmarole. It could take 30 mins or 3 hours, you have no way of knowing.
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