Riding in Europe for the first time
Discussion
Right, so I should have some time around March/April for a little tour. I'm considering doing a number of the war graves/museums (Poperinge/Arnhem/Bastogne/Vimy Ridge) so across a few countries over about 5 days or so via the Shuttel. Looking at England>France>Belgium>Holland>Germany(maybe and only briefly)>Belgium>France>England.
Day 1 Early shuttel to Calais, onto Poperinge, Ypres then stay between Ghent and Antwerp (ibis Sint Niklaas Centrum?)
Day 2 Hotel near Ghent/Antwerp to Arnhem
Day 3 Hotel near Arnhem to Bastogne (POSSIBLY via Germany)
Day 4 Hotel near Bastogne to Arras/Vimy Ridge
Day 5 Hotel near Arras back via the Shuttel to home
This is the first time I've driven/ridden abroad so I'm quite nervous/confused about the general traffic laws and horror stories of people ignoring them etc. Is there a particuarly good site/guide/any tips for doing so? It's as much about who has priority at junctions etc.
I can reign in the speed without issue and my clocks will convert to KM. My VFR is a 2010 model with a Remus exhaust on it if it makes any differenc. I've banked on a maxium of about 190miles per day (Arnhem to Bastogne) with some fairly less than that. I also have dual British/Irish Nationality so would be using my Irish Passport.
This will be a month or so after The Dragon Rally in North Wales and at a similar time last year I rode up from Berkshire via North Yorkshire to camp, then across to Mauchline and onto Glencoe coming back via the Lake District - so winter riding (as long as there isn't ice/snow) isn't a concern for me. Albeit, if the weather is likely to be very bad then plans will have to change.
Day 1 Early shuttel to Calais, onto Poperinge, Ypres then stay between Ghent and Antwerp (ibis Sint Niklaas Centrum?)
Day 2 Hotel near Ghent/Antwerp to Arnhem
Day 3 Hotel near Arnhem to Bastogne (POSSIBLY via Germany)
Day 4 Hotel near Bastogne to Arras/Vimy Ridge
Day 5 Hotel near Arras back via the Shuttel to home
This is the first time I've driven/ridden abroad so I'm quite nervous/confused about the general traffic laws and horror stories of people ignoring them etc. Is there a particuarly good site/guide/any tips for doing so? It's as much about who has priority at junctions etc.
I can reign in the speed without issue and my clocks will convert to KM. My VFR is a 2010 model with a Remus exhaust on it if it makes any differenc. I've banked on a maxium of about 190miles per day (Arnhem to Bastogne) with some fairly less than that. I also have dual British/Irish Nationality so would be using my Irish Passport.
This will be a month or so after The Dragon Rally in North Wales and at a similar time last year I rode up from Berkshire via North Yorkshire to camp, then across to Mauchline and onto Glencoe coming back via the Lake District - so winter riding (as long as there isn't ice/snow) isn't a concern for me. Albeit, if the weather is likely to be very bad then plans will have to change.
I can't really say anything about your route, but I will say that driving on the continent is very easy after the first 5 minutes and roundabout!
Watch out in urban areas for the yellow diamond priority indicators, but in my experience there are very few areas where it doesn't follow the same patterns as the UK, i.e. larger roads take priority.
Watch out in urban areas for the yellow diamond priority indicators, but in my experience there are very few areas where it doesn't follow the same patterns as the UK, i.e. larger roads take priority.
Well done on deciding to go to do a Euro tour.
First things first, riding in Europe is pretty easy. While there are some differences in laws, if you ride defensively, they are very unlikely to cause you any issues. Ride as you would in the UK (but on the other side of the road!
) and everything will be fine.
Less than 200 miles will be an easy days riding, giving time to look around sites, as well as soaking up the atmosphere.
Beyond license, V5, EHIC/GHIC passport, insurance, there isn't much else you'll need We have a check-list you may find useful http://www.old-gits.org/checklist.htm You won't need all of that but it'll make you think about everything to decide if you do or don't need it.
If you are on your own or in a small group of 2 or three, then accommodation will be easy to find on a day by day basis. It's generally cheaper and there is a lot more offered than the UK. Very cheap hotels like FormuleOne and Premmier Classe are often as cheap as "official site" camping but without the need to carry tent etc.
Personally, I like to do some research before I go with regards to the roads I'll use to get around on. That area of Europe has some pretty crap roads for biking so planning a route that takes in the less bad roads then following that route even though the roadside signs might suggest otherwise, is a better option.
Unlike a lot of the UK, most of the other road users "like" bikes and do what they can to make life on a bike easier by giving you space and getting out of your way. Likewise, most of the roads are less crowded and in better condition than the UK.
If you have any specific questions then let me know and I'll do what I can to help.
First things first, riding in Europe is pretty easy. While there are some differences in laws, if you ride defensively, they are very unlikely to cause you any issues. Ride as you would in the UK (but on the other side of the road!
) and everything will be fine.Less than 200 miles will be an easy days riding, giving time to look around sites, as well as soaking up the atmosphere.
Beyond license, V5, EHIC/GHIC passport, insurance, there isn't much else you'll need We have a check-list you may find useful http://www.old-gits.org/checklist.htm You won't need all of that but it'll make you think about everything to decide if you do or don't need it.
If you are on your own or in a small group of 2 or three, then accommodation will be easy to find on a day by day basis. It's generally cheaper and there is a lot more offered than the UK. Very cheap hotels like FormuleOne and Premmier Classe are often as cheap as "official site" camping but without the need to carry tent etc.
Personally, I like to do some research before I go with regards to the roads I'll use to get around on. That area of Europe has some pretty crap roads for biking so planning a route that takes in the less bad roads then following that route even though the roadside signs might suggest otherwise, is a better option.
Unlike a lot of the UK, most of the other road users "like" bikes and do what they can to make life on a bike easier by giving you space and getting out of your way. Likewise, most of the roads are less crowded and in better condition than the UK.
If you have any specific questions then let me know and I'll do what I can to help.
Riding on the right is easy the first day, it's the following morning I used to get it wrong
I agree with K1, 200 miles a day is a good target distance as it lets you take some more interesting roads and stop and look at stuff, although in general the roads aren't that interesting in northern France/Belgium/Netherlands. Think about how many miles you plan do do and how much you've got left on your tyres though as losing half a day to get a new tyre fitted is a pain.
Most Dutch roads have cycle paths alongside, which have priority over traffic turning across them, and in a lot of cases you'll get a green light to turn right, but pedestrians crossing the road also have a green light, which is really annoying!
The Hartenstein Airborne museum at Oosterbeek is a worth a visit, its where 101 Airborne's HQ was. There's then another museum at the bridge that I've not been to yet. https://www.airbornemuseum.nl/
The Overloon war museum a bit further south is good too https://www.oorlogsmuseum.nl/en/
There's also the national military museum near Utrecht and the Naval museum in Den Helder that I've not visited yet but everyone tells me are good.
I agree with K1, 200 miles a day is a good target distance as it lets you take some more interesting roads and stop and look at stuff, although in general the roads aren't that interesting in northern France/Belgium/Netherlands. Think about how many miles you plan do do and how much you've got left on your tyres though as losing half a day to get a new tyre fitted is a pain.
Most Dutch roads have cycle paths alongside, which have priority over traffic turning across them, and in a lot of cases you'll get a green light to turn right, but pedestrians crossing the road also have a green light, which is really annoying!
The Hartenstein Airborne museum at Oosterbeek is a worth a visit, its where 101 Airborne's HQ was. There's then another museum at the bridge that I've not been to yet. https://www.airbornemuseum.nl/
The Overloon war museum a bit further south is good too https://www.oorlogsmuseum.nl/en/
There's also the national military museum near Utrecht and the Naval museum in Den Helder that I've not visited yet but everyone tells me are good.
Edited by RizzoTheRat on Wednesday 22 November 21:16
Agree with previous replies, riding in Europe is not that hard. I had my first trip about 4 years ago with my mate who had been across numerous times but it was me who had to remind him occasionally to ride on the right. Roads are so much better than UK and a lot quieter if you get off the motorways.
Bastogne is a good place to visit, plenty museums, etc to visit. Would recommend the 101st Airborne Museum, they have a room downstairs that simulates a German attack on the town and plenty of displays, some very realistic and not for the faint hearted! Bastogne War Museum is also worth a visit but a bit more touristy.
Airborne Museum in Arnhem is worth a visit as well.
You'll not be short of places associated with wars to visit if that is your interest.
Bastogne is a good place to visit, plenty museums, etc to visit. Would recommend the 101st Airborne Museum, they have a room downstairs that simulates a German attack on the town and plenty of displays, some very realistic and not for the faint hearted! Bastogne War Museum is also worth a visit but a bit more touristy.
Airborne Museum in Arnhem is worth a visit as well.
You'll not be short of places associated with wars to visit if that is your interest.
There is also an oddity in France, http://www.vendee-guide.co.uk/priority-a-droite.ht... I've only seen it, or noticed it, in remote out of town areas and many French drivers ignore it, but you can get the odd one now and again that just pulls out.
Also if you're going near Calais and want to visit war museums, https://lacoupole-france.com/en/ is a fascinating place and not far from LeShuttle.
Also if you're going near Calais and want to visit war museums, https://lacoupole-france.com/en/ is a fascinating place and not far from LeShuttle.
I did my first Euro trip in September 2700 miles in total all in France on a 2010 VFR1200 also with a Remus exhaust.
200 Miles is around the limit i set myself and found this to be about right. I did have bigger days with the biggest at 350.
I found that the drivers actually notice you a lot more than here in the UK and will move to let you pass.
I was concerned about my fuel consumption so took four litres in two cans don't bother with this as there are loads of petrol stations everywhere i ended up using it and throwing the cans to save weight.
Have you the panniers, tank bag etc for your bike?
As it was my first Euro trip I took way way too much gear i'd say i could have left easily 50% at home as you can see this from the picture I had a lot of gear with me I think I could have got away with just the panniers with what i actually used so I learnt a lesson there!!!
Can't wait to do similar next year.
200 Miles is around the limit i set myself and found this to be about right. I did have bigger days with the biggest at 350.
I found that the drivers actually notice you a lot more than here in the UK and will move to let you pass.
I was concerned about my fuel consumption so took four litres in two cans don't bother with this as there are loads of petrol stations everywhere i ended up using it and throwing the cans to save weight.
Have you the panniers, tank bag etc for your bike?
As it was my first Euro trip I took way way too much gear i'd say i could have left easily 50% at home as you can see this from the picture I had a lot of gear with me I think I could have got away with just the panniers with what i actually used so I learnt a lesson there!!!
Can't wait to do similar next year.
myvision said:
I did my first Euro trip in September 2700 miles in total all in France on a 2010 VFR1200 also with a Remus exhaust.
200 Miles is around the limit i set myself and found this to be about right. I did have bigger days with the biggest at 350.
I found that the drivers actually notice you a lot more than here in the UK and will move to let you pass.
I was concerned about my fuel consumption so took four litres in two cans don't bother with this as there are loads of petrol stations everywhere i ended up using it and throwing the cans to save weight.
Have you the panniers, tank bag etc for your bike?
As it was my first Euro trip I took way way too much gear i'd say i could have left easily 50% at home as you can see this from the picture I had a lot of gear with me I think I could have got away with just the panniers with what i actually used so I learnt a lesson there!!!
Can't wait to do similar next year.
Yeah, I did think about fuel but will probably just make sure I've got half a tank or so minimum when I see a station. 200 Miles is around the limit i set myself and found this to be about right. I did have bigger days with the biggest at 350.
I found that the drivers actually notice you a lot more than here in the UK and will move to let you pass.
I was concerned about my fuel consumption so took four litres in two cans don't bother with this as there are loads of petrol stations everywhere i ended up using it and throwing the cans to save weight.
Have you the panniers, tank bag etc for your bike?
As it was my first Euro trip I took way way too much gear i'd say i could have left easily 50% at home as you can see this from the picture I had a lot of gear with me I think I could have got away with just the panniers with what i actually used so I learnt a lesson there!!!
Can't wait to do similar next year.
Sort of deliberating the luggage at the moment. I would usually camp and take a large roll bag but I can't be arsed with setting up a tent over multiple days in winter again (plus the unreliability of camp sites at the time of year) and my sleeping bag is too cold really.
As a result I'm thinking to wear textiles, small tanklock bag for documents/wallet etc and a Rhinowalk 20ltr tail bag. I may look and see if my soft panniers will fit. Absolutely detest having a top box on due to the feeling of weight/windsock higher up, infact I've removed the bars and rack I hated it so much.
Biker9090 said:
Yeah, I did think about fuel but will probably just make sure I've got half a tank or so minimum when I see a station.
In France and Belgium you're never more than 20 miles from a petrol station, just like the UK. If you have a sat nav look for https://www.carrefour.fr super markets as they sell the cheapest petrol, have covered pumps and sell every type of petrol and usefully it's pay at pump which if it's raining saves a lot of messing about. French version of Tesco. All or virtually all the motorway and toll road pumps are also pay at pump.myvision said:
I did my first Euro trip in September 2700 miles in total all in France on a 2010 VFR1200 also with a Remus exhaust.
200 Miles is around the limit i set myself and found this to be about right. I did have bigger days with the biggest at 350.
I found that the drivers actually notice you a lot more than here in the UK and will move to let you pass.
I was concerned about my fuel consumption so took four litres in two cans don't bother with this as there are loads of petrol stations everywhere i ended up using it and throwing the cans to save weight.
Have you the panniers, tank bag etc for your bike?
As it was my first Euro trip I took way way too much gear i'd say i could have left easily 50% at home as you can see this from the picture I had a lot of gear with me I think I could have got away with just the panniers with what i actually used so I learnt a lesson there!!!
Can't wait to do similar next year.
200 Miles is around the limit i set myself and found this to be about right. I did have bigger days with the biggest at 350.
I found that the drivers actually notice you a lot more than here in the UK and will move to let you pass.
I was concerned about my fuel consumption so took four litres in two cans don't bother with this as there are loads of petrol stations everywhere i ended up using it and throwing the cans to save weight.
Have you the panniers, tank bag etc for your bike?
As it was my first Euro trip I took way way too much gear i'd say i could have left easily 50% at home as you can see this from the picture I had a lot of gear with me I think I could have got away with just the panniers with what i actually used so I learnt a lesson there!!!
Can't wait to do similar next year.
Packed for 10 days/9 nights ...
and I don't pack anywhere as light as some.
Even better if you can save your end-of-life clothes to wear one more time on the trip and then bin them. The luggage load gets lighter as the trip progresses.
black-k1 said:
Packed for 10 days/9 nights ...
and I don't pack anywhere as light as some.
Even better if you can save your end-of-life clothes to wear one more time on the trip and then bin them. The luggage load gets lighter as the trip progresses.
I got back into road riding after 10 years off in 2015, by 2016 I had already done by first euro tour (and euro track day)
It is something that once you do you'll be planning and thinking about the next one! We typically ride in a group of 6-8 all well established riders, all been friends a number of years and all experienced on 2 wheels. We all use intercoms (Sena Mesh) and majority all ride naked bikes
We found generally a stop every 100 or so miles (which worked well with our MT10 riders who's fuel lights would come on about then) and having done at times 300+ miles I can categorically say keep to sub 200 miles ideally daily barring first day which you can stretch out a bit further
You dont need to take excess of anything. Just enough pants, socks for each day, a powerbank, few usb cables and as backup I would download off line maps of the areas you are riding (should you dedicated nav fail)
Riding on right takes 30 mins to get used to. I've made the mistake of going first time with a chain and sprocket I 'thought' would last but started fail and stretch terribly mid way through. I've also had a set of tyres destroyed in 1000 miles - dont be stupid like me and run a sporty tyre and ride twisty roads thinking they'll last!
Fortunately we found (and it does happen) bike breaks, failures, tyres etc are typically good in the major town/cities. We had 5 of us all go into a big shop south france in 2022 and change to S22's with us having a nice bit of lunch while they did it
I wear my 2pc leathers and just put a heated gloves & 1pc rain suit in my top box for tours not mid summer (It also gets bloody cold in the mountains)
There will be things you wish you did once out there but it just gives more reason to plan the next one and do the bits you missed first time
It is something that once you do you'll be planning and thinking about the next one! We typically ride in a group of 6-8 all well established riders, all been friends a number of years and all experienced on 2 wheels. We all use intercoms (Sena Mesh) and majority all ride naked bikes
We found generally a stop every 100 or so miles (which worked well with our MT10 riders who's fuel lights would come on about then) and having done at times 300+ miles I can categorically say keep to sub 200 miles ideally daily barring first day which you can stretch out a bit further
You dont need to take excess of anything. Just enough pants, socks for each day, a powerbank, few usb cables and as backup I would download off line maps of the areas you are riding (should you dedicated nav fail)
Riding on right takes 30 mins to get used to. I've made the mistake of going first time with a chain and sprocket I 'thought' would last but started fail and stretch terribly mid way through. I've also had a set of tyres destroyed in 1000 miles - dont be stupid like me and run a sporty tyre and ride twisty roads thinking they'll last!
Fortunately we found (and it does happen) bike breaks, failures, tyres etc are typically good in the major town/cities. We had 5 of us all go into a big shop south france in 2022 and change to S22's with us having a nice bit of lunch while they did it
I wear my 2pc leathers and just put a heated gloves & 1pc rain suit in my top box for tours not mid summer (It also gets bloody cold in the mountains)
There will be things you wish you did once out there but it just gives more reason to plan the next one and do the bits you missed first time
Please be careful of the French Priorite a droite. The link steveKTMer posted is great and those are the signs to look out for.
But it exists all over the place, primarily in towns and more out of the way country roads. It's extensively covered in both the theory and practical parts of the driving test.
The French don't tend to ignore it, it's just that the priorites can be easy to miss and contrary to popular belief and apparent evidence to the contrary, they're not all suicidal and tend to check if the vehicle barreling down the road at 80kmh has noticed there's a priorite before pulling out.
If you haven't clocked the road signs in steveKTMer link then have a quick glance to see if there are solid or broken white lines across any junction emerging from right. If you can't see any then approach with caution.
But it exists all over the place, primarily in towns and more out of the way country roads. It's extensively covered in both the theory and practical parts of the driving test.
The French don't tend to ignore it, it's just that the priorites can be easy to miss and contrary to popular belief and apparent evidence to the contrary, they're not all suicidal and tend to check if the vehicle barreling down the road at 80kmh has noticed there's a priorite before pulling out.
If you haven't clocked the road signs in steveKTMer link then have a quick glance to see if there are solid or broken white lines across any junction emerging from right. If you can't see any then approach with caution.
Similar thread started by me last year…
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
My biggest error was not changing the time on my phone…after always traveling by plane/ using my phone as an alarm I had planned to wake in plenty of time for coffee before leaving the ship.
I expected to wake up in plenty of time to disembark. My cabin had no phone signal, so my phone didn’t automatically do the hour time difference shift. I was an hour late, woke up to the announcement that it was time to get the bike and get off the ship. Suffice to say I got ready pretty quickly.
Return journey Inwas determined to not make that error again. Changed my phone back to UK time before going to sleep. This time, however, my phone did get a signal and as a result I somehow ended up two hours early.
Not sure what to learn from my ineptitude but next time I’ll be setting an alarm on my watch!
Have a great journey. You will love it. The standard of driving is so much better than the UK. The roads much better. I can’t wait to go back.
C
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
My biggest error was not changing the time on my phone…after always traveling by plane/ using my phone as an alarm I had planned to wake in plenty of time for coffee before leaving the ship.
I expected to wake up in plenty of time to disembark. My cabin had no phone signal, so my phone didn’t automatically do the hour time difference shift. I was an hour late, woke up to the announcement that it was time to get the bike and get off the ship. Suffice to say I got ready pretty quickly.
Return journey Inwas determined to not make that error again. Changed my phone back to UK time before going to sleep. This time, however, my phone did get a signal and as a result I somehow ended up two hours early.
Not sure what to learn from my ineptitude but next time I’ll be setting an alarm on my watch!
Have a great journey. You will love it. The standard of driving is so much better than the UK. The roads much better. I can’t wait to go back.
C
Edited by Gingerbiker67 on Thursday 23 November 14:22
Gingerbiker67 said:
Similar thread started by me last year…
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
My biggest error was not changing the time on my phone…after always traveling by plane/ using my phone as an alarm I had planned to wake in plenty of time for coffee before leaving the ship.
I expected to wake up in plenty of time to disembark. My cabin had no phone signal, so my phone didn’t automatically do the hour time difference shift. I was an hour late, woke up to the announcement that it was time to get the bike and get off the ship. Suffice to say I got ready pretty quickly.
Return journey Inwas determined to not make that error again. Changed my phone back to UK time before going to sleep. This time, however, my phone did get a signal and as a result I somehow ended up two hours early.
Not sure what to learn from my ineptitude but next time I’ll be setting an alarm on my watch!
Have a great journey. You will love it. The standard of driving is so much better than the UK. The roads much better. I can’t wait to go back.
C
Yep this is why I said in my comment to download off line maps as backup. We have had similar. A lot of places can have zero receptionhttps://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
My biggest error was not changing the time on my phone…after always traveling by plane/ using my phone as an alarm I had planned to wake in plenty of time for coffee before leaving the ship.
I expected to wake up in plenty of time to disembark. My cabin had no phone signal, so my phone didn’t automatically do the hour time difference shift. I was an hour late, woke up to the announcement that it was time to get the bike and get off the ship. Suffice to say I got ready pretty quickly.
Return journey Inwas determined to not make that error again. Changed my phone back to UK time before going to sleep. This time, however, my phone did get a signal and as a result I somehow ended up two hours early.
Not sure what to learn from my ineptitude but next time I’ll be setting an alarm on my watch!
Have a great journey. You will love it. The standard of driving is so much better than the UK. The roads much better. I can’t wait to go back.
C
Edited by Gingerbiker67 on Thursday 23 November 14:22
Don't overthink it, anything you can get here you can get in Europe.
Do make sure your bike is fully serviced, fresh tyres etc before you go.
Insurance for both the bike and yourself. If relying on your standard bike insurance & recovery read the small print as it won't be as good as you think.
Suicide clothing - one last use and in the bin.
Besides the bikes standard 'emergency only' toolkit add wd40, gaffer tape and puncture repair kit.
Loud or illegal cans. In some places the police will pull you and do horrible things to you. Either put the standard cans back on or avoid those places.
Do make sure your bike is fully serviced, fresh tyres etc before you go.
Insurance for both the bike and yourself. If relying on your standard bike insurance & recovery read the small print as it won't be as good as you think.
Suicide clothing - one last use and in the bin.
Besides the bikes standard 'emergency only' toolkit add wd40, gaffer tape and puncture repair kit.
Loud or illegal cans. In some places the police will pull you and do horrible things to you. Either put the standard cans back on or avoid those places.
Take fewer pairs of underwear/socks than you think you will need, and just rinse them out each night.
Take more plugs&adpators and a multi USB socket thing to charge everything up.
The state and stench of our hotel rooms.... crickey. Three blokes sharing.
I'm off to the Pyrnees this year with my Spanish mates. Their back yard.
I'm expecting incredible food.
Unlike Scotland.
Take more plugs&adpators and a multi USB socket thing to charge everything up.
The state and stench of our hotel rooms.... crickey. Three blokes sharing.
I'm off to the Pyrnees this year with my Spanish mates. Their back yard.
I'm expecting incredible food.
Unlike Scotland.
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