Getting confidence commuting in the wet?
Discussion
Been commuting through London over the last few weeks but not used to riding in the rain I'm finding it hard to get any confidence when it's wet.
What didn't help was on one of the days the front slipped a bit pulling out of a junction (pretty sure it was a can or something I rode over) and not long after that as I was pulling away I could feel the rear slipping as I was crossing the white lines. Wasn't giving it much in either case but since then I feel like I'm being overly cautious.
I'm slow around corners and trying to keep the bike as upright as possible while BMW's are tailgating me, although I've got no problem out accelerating them whenever there is a bit of a straight.
Bike is a cbr650 with pirelli diablo tyres - feels like the bike needs to have some speed and lean to corner - I'm guessing naked bikes are easier to turn and can keep more upright in city traffic?
Is it normal to get some wheel slip on a morning commute?
Are these tyres not suitable for winter commuting?
What didn't help was on one of the days the front slipped a bit pulling out of a junction (pretty sure it was a can or something I rode over) and not long after that as I was pulling away I could feel the rear slipping as I was crossing the white lines. Wasn't giving it much in either case but since then I feel like I'm being overly cautious.
I'm slow around corners and trying to keep the bike as upright as possible while BMW's are tailgating me, although I've got no problem out accelerating them whenever there is a bit of a straight.
Bike is a cbr650 with pirelli diablo tyres - feels like the bike needs to have some speed and lean to corner - I'm guessing naked bikes are easier to turn and can keep more upright in city traffic?
Is it normal to get some wheel slip on a morning commute?
Are these tyres not suitable for winter commuting?
Well long term commuter of 30 odd years into London in all weathers. What I can tell you is that if you are riding in the dark and wet in the same way as you would in the middle of summer you are mad. The care factor goes up by 50% for me over winter so don't sweat it too much. The standard of driving tends to take a nosedive this time of year so you need to keep your wits about you and who really cares if it takes 15 minutes extra each way as long as you arrive in one piece.
Having said all that I've never liked Pirelli tyres for the depths of winter so it may help swapping them out if the bike is noticeably skittish.
Having said all that I've never liked Pirelli tyres for the depths of winter so it may help swapping them out if the bike is noticeably skittish.
Are those the base spec Diablo? If so that won’t be helping.
Put some Michelin Road on it, any from 3 onwards will be fine but ideally 5 or 6. On a related note I find it odd that you can buy 3, 4, 5, 6 alongside each other when they have all been marketed to do the same job and each is supposed to be an improvement on the other but the 3 isn’t tons cheaper than the 6.
Put some Michelin Road on it, any from 3 onwards will be fine but ideally 5 or 6. On a related note I find it odd that you can buy 3, 4, 5, 6 alongside each other when they have all been marketed to do the same job and each is supposed to be an improvement on the other but the 3 isn’t tons cheaper than the 6.
It just takes practice to gradually build your confidence up.
You'd be surprised how much you can actually lean a bike in the wet - the tyres are designed for it, but there is a mental block that prevents most people from relaxing and being fluid on the bike.
I used to ride in all weathers and would purposefully go out in the wet to get the practice, these days not so much and I have had to remind myself to relax my grip and drop my shoulders when I've been caught out in the rain.
Ice is another thing entirely - if it's properly frosty and there's a chance of black ice, I'd look at public transport. I dropped my R6 doing about 10mph because of black ice. Was horrible watching it slide down the hill in front of me as I gently followed it on my arse.
You'd be surprised how much you can actually lean a bike in the wet - the tyres are designed for it, but there is a mental block that prevents most people from relaxing and being fluid on the bike.
I used to ride in all weathers and would purposefully go out in the wet to get the practice, these days not so much and I have had to remind myself to relax my grip and drop my shoulders when I've been caught out in the rain.
Ice is another thing entirely - if it's properly frosty and there's a chance of black ice, I'd look at public transport. I dropped my R6 doing about 10mph because of black ice. Was horrible watching it slide down the hill in front of me as I gently followed it on my arse.
Go to a carpark and do some slow speed manoeuvres and emergency stops in the rain. I did this the other week because I realised I'd never done it in the rain before. Learning how hard you can brake in the wet and what your tyres are capable of gave me more confidence in them at least.
airsafari87 said:
trickywoo said:
Are those the base spec Diablo? If so that won’t be helping.
Yep, if they are they are horrendous tyres.I enjoy riding in the wet and am fairly confident riding in it too, but a bike a bought secondhand came with a set fitted to it and I felt like Bambi on ice.
Bambi on ice is exactly how I'm feeling! I'll get the Michelin's sorted asap.
GreaseNipple said:
Go to a carpark and do some slow speed manoeuvres and emergency stops in the rain. I did this the other week because I realised I'd never done it in the rain before. Learning how hard you can brake in the wet and what your tyres are capable of gave me more confidence in them at least.
Good idea but don't forget the terrible state of public roads. Potholes, loose tarmac, gravel, diesel spills etc mean you need to be assessing road conditions all the time as well as looking out for drivers making stupid manoeuvres.There is a junction near me where the road is badly corrugated due to heavy trucks, no matter what bike or tyres it feels like the front is going to wash out underneath you even at 10mph. I have learnt to make sure that I back off and slow down early there so that I don't have to brake heavily.
Even in the car it feels wrong.
Edited by Onelastattempt on Wednesday 1st November 18:12
KTMsm said:
The other thing to check is the date on them
Quite a few bikes are riding around on very old tyres (particularly the front)
And check the pressures
However, if it's freshly rained, it will be greasy and wet white lines & drain covers are always slippery
I agree.Quite a few bikes are riding around on very old tyres (particularly the front)
And check the pressures
However, if it's freshly rained, it will be greasy and wet white lines & drain covers are always slippery
Also check the whole bike over.
I had some issues with my bike at one point.
I'm always a bit nervous in crosswinds but my bike felt quite vague in the wet and wind.
I went through head bearings, swing arm bearings, wheel alignment, tyre pressures, took the panniers off, checked suspension settings.
I'm sure a lot of it is in my head, but new tyres helped. I was doing a lot of miles at the time and I went for Pirelli Angels, which seemed to work for me and my bike. YMMV.
The other thing is, you want the engine and transmission to be perfect, you don't want any roughness/disturbance/hestitation when you're on a crap surface in the wet with an Audi up your bum.
Like many things riding, a lack of confidence in the wet is a vicious circle. Because you don't have confidence, you tense up. Because you tense up you over react Because you've over reacted you you don't look where you should be looking. Because you're not looking in the right place you reduce your confidence.
Part of breaking that circle is checking you bike/tyres etc. Part is having the right kit so you are comfortable. Part is doing controlled testing such as slow speed manoeuvres and test breaking in a safe and controlled environment
But most is in your head. It's hard work and needs a lot of concentration to start with but you need to force yourself to not get tense, to not grip tightly, to not not get tunnel vision, to not get frustrated with the other road users, not to over react. Just focus on relaxing, breathing slowly, enjoying the ride and letting the bike do its thing.
Part of breaking that circle is checking you bike/tyres etc. Part is having the right kit so you are comfortable. Part is doing controlled testing such as slow speed manoeuvres and test breaking in a safe and controlled environment
But most is in your head. It's hard work and needs a lot of concentration to start with but you need to force yourself to not get tense, to not grip tightly, to not not get tunnel vision, to not get frustrated with the other road users, not to over react. Just focus on relaxing, breathing slowly, enjoying the ride and letting the bike do its thing.
OutInTheShed said:
KTMsm said:
The other thing to check is the date on them
Quite a few bikes are riding around on very old tyres (particularly the front)
And check the pressures
However, if it's freshly rained, it will be greasy and wet white lines & drain covers are always slippery
I agree.Quite a few bikes are riding around on very old tyres (particularly the front)
And check the pressures
However, if it's freshly rained, it will be greasy and wet white lines & drain covers are always slippery
Also check the whole bike over.
I had some issues with my bike at one point.
I'm always a bit nervous in crosswinds but my bike felt quite vague in the wet and wind.
I went through head bearings, swing arm bearings, wheel alignment, tyre pressures, took the panniers off, checked suspension settings.
I'm sure a lot of it is in my head, but new tyres helped. I was doing a lot of miles at the time and I went for Pirelli Angels, which seemed to work for me and my bike. YMMV.
The other thing is, you want the engine and transmission to be perfect, you don't want any roughness/disturbance/hestitation when you're on a crap surface in the wet with an Audi up your bum.
Public transport almost doubles the journey time but it's pretty chill sitting back and reading so I can always mix it up if the weather sucks too much to ride.
I’ve been commuting all year round for 25yrs+. There is some great advice shared already, but adding my 2 cents.
1) good quality tyres with lots of tread and correct pressures make an enormous difference. Another vote for Michelin from me.
2) don’t rush or feel pressure from other bikers behind you when filtering. If you’ve seen them in your mirror just let them through when you have a gap in cars.
3) Continuity is really helpful - riding everyday of the week means you acclimatise to the wetter/colder/darker weather much better than if you only ride a day a week or so. Adjusting speed/awareness for conditions becomes natural (my commute is 5-10mins longer each way in winter).
4) invest in good riding gear. It doesn’t sound obvious but when you’re cold and soaked through to the bone you are far more likely to rush or lose concentration. I’m toasty warm and dry in my gear regardless of weather conditions so my riding always feels comfortable.
5) keep your visor scratch free to avoid glare and use rainex (or similar) to help with beading. Install an anti-fog film so you don’t keep having to adjust for air gap when in traffic.
1) good quality tyres with lots of tread and correct pressures make an enormous difference. Another vote for Michelin from me.
2) don’t rush or feel pressure from other bikers behind you when filtering. If you’ve seen them in your mirror just let them through when you have a gap in cars.
3) Continuity is really helpful - riding everyday of the week means you acclimatise to the wetter/colder/darker weather much better than if you only ride a day a week or so. Adjusting speed/awareness for conditions becomes natural (my commute is 5-10mins longer each way in winter).
4) invest in good riding gear. It doesn’t sound obvious but when you’re cold and soaked through to the bone you are far more likely to rush or lose concentration. I’m toasty warm and dry in my gear regardless of weather conditions so my riding always feels comfortable.
5) keep your visor scratch free to avoid glare and use rainex (or similar) to help with beading. Install an anti-fog film so you don’t keep having to adjust for air gap when in traffic.
I boughty my CBF500 off of a guy who rode it in London a few years ago. He made a point of it having the "amazing" Pirelli Diablo Rosso tyres.....
Well, all 17 stone of me on a 65,000 mile 500 maanaged to EASILY spin up the rear in the wet on them in 3rd gear! Felt like I was riding on f
king plastic. I've ridden my CZ in horrendous rain on some fairly basic (albeit newly made) Michelins and they stuck like st to a blanket.
The tyres will be your main problem!
Get some Bridgestone T32/Pirelli Angel GT2/Dunlop Roadsmart 4/Michellin PR6 etc on them and you'll get your confidence back.
I NEVER lost traction with my VFR1200F with Angel GT2s on it. They're without a doubt the best cold/wet weather tyres I've ever used. Guy at work used to commute through snow and Ice on his R6 with them on and never lost it.
Well, all 17 stone of me on a 65,000 mile 500 maanaged to EASILY spin up the rear in the wet on them in 3rd gear! Felt like I was riding on f
king plastic. I've ridden my CZ in horrendous rain on some fairly basic (albeit newly made) Michelins and they stuck like st to a blanket. The tyres will be your main problem!
Get some Bridgestone T32/Pirelli Angel GT2/Dunlop Roadsmart 4/Michellin PR6 etc on them and you'll get your confidence back.
I NEVER lost traction with my VFR1200F with Angel GT2s on it. They're without a doubt the best cold/wet weather tyres I've ever used. Guy at work used to commute through snow and Ice on his R6 with them on and never lost it.
Edited by Biker9090 on Thursday 2nd November 12:43
I too am (was) an all year round commuter with a 60 mile round trip in to and out of central London. I think all the above suggestions are fantastically good advice. I crashed a bike on a trackday in the wet (big highside that trashed the bike) and it took me c15 years (yes really) to get confidence back riding in the wet - would just tense up on bends. I didn't get over it until I bought a different style of bike. The one I have now for the commute is just massively confidence inspiring and so easy to ride that I just don't even think about that aspect of riding, I can totally focus on what's going on around me. Question, do you have the right bike for an urban commute? Your Honda certainly sounds sensible enough.
I say I was an all year round commuter but I've found that as I get older (I'm 57) I struggle to see well enough in the dark and rain in a city. When it's completely dark and wet I find the light refracting off the droplets on the visor difficult to process and it caused me to a) shoulder barge a taxi and b) on a separate occasion not see a silly bugger run across the road in front of me until he was well across the road. It wasn't close but the fact I hadn't initially seen him obviously bothered me.
So, when the weather gets really dark, wet and cold (usually Dec - March ish) I rarely use my bike on the commute. My point is you must only do what you're comfortable with. I'd say ride your bike out of town in the wet deliberately to help build your confidence and try to figure out exactly what is bugging you. Might be something that becomes more apparent when the unique city type elements are removed??
Finally, I don't think anyone has mentioned Diesel yet. In the wet it is lethal and is very common on City roads, dropped by buses and lorries etc. That could have been the thing that has made you slip. It's worse than ice in the wet and all of us I'm sure are eagle eyed about it (look for the rainbows on the road) but perhaps there was a small amount under your tyres??
I say I was an all year round commuter but I've found that as I get older (I'm 57) I struggle to see well enough in the dark and rain in a city. When it's completely dark and wet I find the light refracting off the droplets on the visor difficult to process and it caused me to a) shoulder barge a taxi and b) on a separate occasion not see a silly bugger run across the road in front of me until he was well across the road. It wasn't close but the fact I hadn't initially seen him obviously bothered me.
So, when the weather gets really dark, wet and cold (usually Dec - March ish) I rarely use my bike on the commute. My point is you must only do what you're comfortable with. I'd say ride your bike out of town in the wet deliberately to help build your confidence and try to figure out exactly what is bugging you. Might be something that becomes more apparent when the unique city type elements are removed??
Finally, I don't think anyone has mentioned Diesel yet. In the wet it is lethal and is very common on City roads, dropped by buses and lorries etc. That could have been the thing that has made you slip. It's worse than ice in the wet and all of us I'm sure are eagle eyed about it (look for the rainbows on the road) but perhaps there was a small amount under your tyres??
I'm not an all year round biker, I limit myself mostly to the warmer times, but getting used to the bike moving a bit over white lines and drains will help. It will move and slide, it'll feel like it's moving a lot when in fact it's only really a few inches. Apart from that good advice above.
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