Supermoto depreciation - or lack of
Discussion
I'm semi-interested in buying one of these, but it appears that many of the older bikes such as the Yamaha WR125X, WR250X and Suzuki DRZ-400SM seem to be quite expensive considering their age. There doesn't seem to be any new equivalents (other than the Husqvarna 701, which is a bigger beast).
I've seen a really nice low mileage bike, but it's around 15 years old and is priced around the top end (somewhere between £4.5k and £5k). The dealer mentioned I could probably ride it for a few years and then get my money back. However, I'm sceptical about that! I can see that could be the case if I didn't ride it. However, if I pile on the miles and use it in the rain and maybe the winter, then I have a feeling it's not going to be worth a button in a few years' time, even if I service it and try to look after it.
I've been keeping an eye on bikes (not supermotos) at the cheaper end of the market, and had been thinking I would try to buy an older bike for around £1500 to £2500, so this particular bike is around two or three times what I was initially thinking of spending, and at the back of my mind is the fact that it's still 15 years old, even if it does look like new.
Anyway, I'm curious about why some of these bikes are now more expensive than when they were new, and if demand for them is likely to continue. Is it low mileage and condition which keeps prices high? I suppose the potential depreciation of this particular bike is relatively low compared with depreciation on a new vehicle, and if I liked it I might end up keeping it for years, in which case it wouldn't be a consideration. However, it would be nice to know what to expect if I decided to move it on after riding it for a year or two.
I've seen a really nice low mileage bike, but it's around 15 years old and is priced around the top end (somewhere between £4.5k and £5k). The dealer mentioned I could probably ride it for a few years and then get my money back. However, I'm sceptical about that! I can see that could be the case if I didn't ride it. However, if I pile on the miles and use it in the rain and maybe the winter, then I have a feeling it's not going to be worth a button in a few years' time, even if I service it and try to look after it.
I've been keeping an eye on bikes (not supermotos) at the cheaper end of the market, and had been thinking I would try to buy an older bike for around £1500 to £2500, so this particular bike is around two or three times what I was initially thinking of spending, and at the back of my mind is the fact that it's still 15 years old, even if it does look like new.
Anyway, I'm curious about why some of these bikes are now more expensive than when they were new, and if demand for them is likely to continue. Is it low mileage and condition which keeps prices high? I suppose the potential depreciation of this particular bike is relatively low compared with depreciation on a new vehicle, and if I liked it I might end up keeping it for years, in which case it wouldn't be a consideration. However, it would be nice to know what to expect if I decided to move it on after riding it for a year or two.
I'm a huge supermoto fan but there arent many about because they don't really work as a single motorcycle, only as part of a collection for most people
I've got a 525 SM converted from an enduro bike and that's fantastic fun for an hour or two around the lanes - mines an 05 and worth around £2500 there's very few fun bikes around below £2k these days
I've owned 690 SM / Duke / SMRC and they are fun but very different to a proper 100kg bike (although more practical)
What bike are you looking at ?
I don't think you can have more fun on two wheels - or frequently one
I've got a 525 SM converted from an enduro bike and that's fantastic fun for an hour or two around the lanes - mines an 05 and worth around £2500 there's very few fun bikes around below £2k these days
I've owned 690 SM / Duke / SMRC and they are fun but very different to a proper 100kg bike (although more practical)
What bike are you looking at ?
I don't think you can have more fun on two wheels - or frequently one
Edited by KTMsm on Monday 11th September 17:24
Thanks! Yours looks great!
It's a DRZ. Perhaps it's not the best choice as my only bike, and my first in many years. I have no desire to learn to wheelie, either! I've just read that the handling can be good, and I've always thought the riding position of enduros looks like it might be good fun, although maybe I'd need to buy an after-market seat for long rides!
I've just started looking around, so I'm not completely sold on this style of bike. I also noticed a Honda CBR300R (I think a 2015) at that dealer's, so maybe somethng like that would be a wiser choice.
It's a DRZ. Perhaps it's not the best choice as my only bike, and my first in many years. I have no desire to learn to wheelie, either! I've just read that the handling can be good, and I've always thought the riding position of enduros looks like it might be good fun, although maybe I'd need to buy an after-market seat for long rides!
I've just started looking around, so I'm not completely sold on this style of bike. I also noticed a Honda CBR300R (I think a 2015) at that dealer's, so maybe somethng like that would be a wiser choice.
I wouldn't pay anything like that for a DRZ
I also wouldn't buy a supermoto as an only bike unless it's just for short trips
For VFM I'd recommend an ER6n or a Versys which is more upright, might be worth looking at 690 Duke too
A 300R is the complete opposite, position wise, maybe a CB500x ?
I also wouldn't buy a supermoto as an only bike unless it's just for short trips
For VFM I'd recommend an ER6n or a Versys which is more upright, might be worth looking at 690 Duke too
A 300R is the complete opposite, position wise, maybe a CB500x ?
Edited by KTMsm on Monday 11th September 19:01
I think that lack of supply and choice in this segment helps keep prices artificially high but the change in rising habits has also contributed.
My mate and I have over 60 years combined riding experience with all sorts of bikes and have a good mix in the garage to pick from including adventure and litre bikes but it’s the small 30 - 40 HP supermotos we take out by far the most. Gone are that days when you could take out the R1, cane it around and come back without several near death experiences or a bunch of tickets. On the SM’s you can run them at 100% hour after hour well within the comfort zone but still get the same buzz (almost). It’s also pretty fun to come past some of the big stuff on the tighter roads when you’ve got a quarter of the power but double the noise.
The price of entry does seem high for what you’re getting, especially when you think what that money would buy you in the sports bike market, but running costs are laughably low. The dealer is sort of correct when it comes to depreciation. In our experience our bikes are worth the same or maybe more compared to when we bought them but that only works if you buy them at the right price.
In general the trend is to smaller bikes right now with the new Triumph 400’s selling out, ZX4RR, new Aprilia etc so maybe manufacturers are thinking along the same lines.
My mate and I have over 60 years combined riding experience with all sorts of bikes and have a good mix in the garage to pick from including adventure and litre bikes but it’s the small 30 - 40 HP supermotos we take out by far the most. Gone are that days when you could take out the R1, cane it around and come back without several near death experiences or a bunch of tickets. On the SM’s you can run them at 100% hour after hour well within the comfort zone but still get the same buzz (almost). It’s also pretty fun to come past some of the big stuff on the tighter roads when you’ve got a quarter of the power but double the noise.
The price of entry does seem high for what you’re getting, especially when you think what that money would buy you in the sports bike market, but running costs are laughably low. The dealer is sort of correct when it comes to depreciation. In our experience our bikes are worth the same or maybe more compared to when we bought them but that only works if you buy them at the right price.
In general the trend is to smaller bikes right now with the new Triumph 400’s selling out, ZX4RR, new Aprilia etc so maybe manufacturers are thinking along the same lines.
Thanks, that's helpful.
There doesn't seem to be many bikes in the 250cc - 400cc bracket nowadays, and those there are appear to be built down to a price, and have less performance than similar capacity bikes of yore.
The dealer said the wee supermoto would be relatively affordable to maintain and service - he reckoned £85 for a basic service. I suppose everything is easy to get to, so you don't have to spend ages removing fairings and body panels.
There doesn't seem to be many bikes in the 250cc - 400cc bracket nowadays, and those there are appear to be built down to a price, and have less performance than similar capacity bikes of yore.
The dealer said the wee supermoto would be relatively affordable to maintain and service - he reckoned £85 for a basic service. I suppose everything is easy to get to, so you don't have to spend ages removing fairings and body panels.
Also worth noting that the reason the bikes you're looking at remain expensive is because they're learner compliant, and light weight / manageable for young and first time riders.
A lot of manufacturers have taken to offering restricted bigger bikes in the 500-750cc range which are great if that's what you want, but as you've seen there aren't many 250-400cc bikes out there for young learners. The DRZ and XT660 both seem to hold their value very well cos of this.
Usual case of "warning: poster is recommending his own bike", but I have an Aprilia Dorsoduro 750 which is a fair bit heavier than a DRZ but equally it's got 95bhp and a very similar riding position. It's a vee twin so lots of torque and engine braking but less vibes than a big single.
If you're wondering if a DRZ is worth it, and looking at bigger heavier more upright alternatives, a Dorso is a lot closer to a supermoto riding feel and position than the ones you mentioned. It's just a lot heavier.
This was mine when I got it in standard spec
Gratuitous pic of it now, with side exit exhaust instead of underseat, plus many other mods. Might be for sale soon
not cos I don't love it, but because I've now got an Indian Bobber too, and can't justify two bikes.
A lot of manufacturers have taken to offering restricted bigger bikes in the 500-750cc range which are great if that's what you want, but as you've seen there aren't many 250-400cc bikes out there for young learners. The DRZ and XT660 both seem to hold their value very well cos of this.
Usual case of "warning: poster is recommending his own bike", but I have an Aprilia Dorsoduro 750 which is a fair bit heavier than a DRZ but equally it's got 95bhp and a very similar riding position. It's a vee twin so lots of torque and engine braking but less vibes than a big single.
If you're wondering if a DRZ is worth it, and looking at bigger heavier more upright alternatives, a Dorso is a lot closer to a supermoto riding feel and position than the ones you mentioned. It's just a lot heavier.
This was mine when I got it in standard spec
Gratuitous pic of it now, with side exit exhaust instead of underseat, plus many other mods. Might be for sale soon
not cos I don't love it, but because I've now got an Indian Bobber too, and can't justify two bikes.Was looking for a supermoto style bike as I expected them to be great for getting round the city but found them to be too single purpose, expensive for what you get and thief magnets
What I found out:
- real supermoto bike - these are race bikes, high maintenance, lack basics like a fuel gauge, lot of work and high running costs, uncomfortable
- dual sport with supermoto style setup - Yamaha wr250, drz400, honda crf300sm
Honda would be my pick if you went this way, but I couldn't find the SM version for sale on UK so you'll need to convert/mod the standard one yourself which ends up very expensive (wire rims, suspension setup, tyres for a start) but they can look really cool done up and it'll go forever with minimal maintenance cost - but you'll have spent supersport money on a 300cc bike.
- larger cc supermoto style - Ducati Hypermotard/hyperstrada, XT660, Aprilia Dorsoduro, Husqvarna 701
In this class the Dorsoduro seemed best bang for buck overall.
The husky is the closest to a real supermoto road bike (with the same discomforts).
Hypermotard is awesome if money is no object.
Hyperstrada seemed to be better value and easier to live with as an only bike though (from what I could tell its the same bike as the motard with touring capabilities bolted on).
What I found out:
- real supermoto bike - these are race bikes, high maintenance, lack basics like a fuel gauge, lot of work and high running costs, uncomfortable
- dual sport with supermoto style setup - Yamaha wr250, drz400, honda crf300sm
Honda would be my pick if you went this way, but I couldn't find the SM version for sale on UK so you'll need to convert/mod the standard one yourself which ends up very expensive (wire rims, suspension setup, tyres for a start) but they can look really cool done up and it'll go forever with minimal maintenance cost - but you'll have spent supersport money on a 300cc bike.
- larger cc supermoto style - Ducati Hypermotard/hyperstrada, XT660, Aprilia Dorsoduro, Husqvarna 701
In this class the Dorsoduro seemed best bang for buck overall.
The husky is the closest to a real supermoto road bike (with the same discomforts).
Hypermotard is awesome if money is no object.
Hyperstrada seemed to be better value and easier to live with as an only bike though (from what I could tell its the same bike as the motard with touring capabilities bolted on).
Edited by Bryanwww on Wednesday 13th September 13:43
Thanks!
The Aprilia Dorsoduro looks lovely, but like the 701 it's going to be much more bike than I want at the minute.
I'll try to get to some dealers to see what takes my fancy. As KTMsm suggested, I suspect a more all-round bike might be a wiser option for now. I've seen some positive reviews of the smaller V-Stroms, and although I've never liked the look of adventure bikes, it seems like one of those might be a fairly sensible choice.
The Aprilia Dorsoduro looks lovely, but like the 701 it's going to be much more bike than I want at the minute.
I'll try to get to some dealers to see what takes my fancy. As KTMsm suggested, I suspect a more all-round bike might be a wiser option for now. I've seen some positive reviews of the smaller V-Stroms, and although I've never liked the look of adventure bikes, it seems like one of those might be a fairly sensible choice.
FNG said:
Also worth noting that the reason the bikes you're looking at remain expensive is because they're learner compliant, and light weight / manageable for young and first time riders.
A lot of manufacturers have taken to offering restricted bigger bikes in the 500-750cc range which are great if that's what you want, but as you've seen there aren't many 250-400cc bikes out there for young learners. The DRZ and XT660 both seem to hold their value very well cos of this.
Usual case of "warning: poster is recommending his own bike", but I have an Aprilia Dorsoduro 750 which is a fair bit heavier than a DRZ but equally it's got 95bhp and a very similar riding position. It's a vee twin so lots of torque and engine braking but less vibes than a big single.
If you're wondering if a DRZ is worth it, and looking at bigger heavier more upright alternatives, a Dorso is a lot closer to a supermoto riding feel and position than the ones you mentioned. It's just a lot heavier.
This was mine when I got it in standard spec
Gratuitous pic of it now, with side exit exhaust instead of underseat, plus many other mods. Might be for sale soon not cos I don't love it, but because I've now got an Indian Bobber too, and can't justify two bikes.
I like the Aprilia and what you have done to it. What year is it? Ball park figure?A lot of manufacturers have taken to offering restricted bigger bikes in the 500-750cc range which are great if that's what you want, but as you've seen there aren't many 250-400cc bikes out there for young learners. The DRZ and XT660 both seem to hold their value very well cos of this.
Usual case of "warning: poster is recommending his own bike", but I have an Aprilia Dorsoduro 750 which is a fair bit heavier than a DRZ but equally it's got 95bhp and a very similar riding position. It's a vee twin so lots of torque and engine braking but less vibes than a big single.
If you're wondering if a DRZ is worth it, and looking at bigger heavier more upright alternatives, a Dorso is a lot closer to a supermoto riding feel and position than the ones you mentioned. It's just a lot heavier.
This was mine when I got it in standard spec
Gratuitous pic of it now, with side exit exhaust instead of underseat, plus many other mods. Might be for sale soon
not cos I don't love it, but because I've now got an Indian Bobber too, and can't justify two bikes.2012, 16k miles I think.
The exhaust and rear guard are prototypes that I intended to replace with better ones this winter, but having bought my Bobber I’m losing interest to be honest.
The tail mods suit it IMO and it drops into bends much easier, but the rear guard isn’t pretty when you get close and the rear exhaust bend ought to be remade.
It also could do with an Oberon slave cylinder as I’ve fitted Hel radial master cylinders (as it’s got 1200 forks, with compression and rebound adjustment and bigger Brembo calipers) and the clutch doesn’t seem to match quite with the OE slave.
Id have it up for 3800 looking to take 3500 but that does include the standard subframe, tail panel and light, exhaust and seat if you didn’t want to get into remaking custom parts.
Happy to PM if you are interested.
.
The exhaust and rear guard are prototypes that I intended to replace with better ones this winter, but having bought my Bobber I’m losing interest to be honest.
The tail mods suit it IMO and it drops into bends much easier, but the rear guard isn’t pretty when you get close and the rear exhaust bend ought to be remade.
It also could do with an Oberon slave cylinder as I’ve fitted Hel radial master cylinders (as it’s got 1200 forks, with compression and rebound adjustment and bigger Brembo calipers) and the clutch doesn’t seem to match quite with the OE slave.
Id have it up for 3800 looking to take 3500 but that does include the standard subframe, tail panel and light, exhaust and seat if you didn’t want to get into remaking custom parts.
Happy to PM if you are interested.
.
FNG said:
2012, 16k miles I think.
The exhaust and rear guard are prototypes that I intended to replace with better ones this winter, but having bought my Bobber I’m losing interest to be honest.
The tail mods suit it IMO and it drops into bends much easier, but the rear guard isn’t pretty when you get close and the rear exhaust bend ought to be remade.
It also could do with an Oberon slave cylinder as I’ve fitted Hel radial master cylinders (as it’s got 1200 forks, with compression and rebound adjustment and bigger Brembo calipers) and the clutch doesn’t seem to match quite with the OE slave.
Id have it up for 3800 looking to take 3500 but that does include the standard subframe, tail panel and light, exhaust and seat if you didn’t want to get into remaking custom parts.
Happy to PM if you are interested.
.
Thanks, it may be a little too early for me but I will message you…price sounds great.The exhaust and rear guard are prototypes that I intended to replace with better ones this winter, but having bought my Bobber I’m losing interest to be honest.
The tail mods suit it IMO and it drops into bends much easier, but the rear guard isn’t pretty when you get close and the rear exhaust bend ought to be remade.
It also could do with an Oberon slave cylinder as I’ve fitted Hel radial master cylinders (as it’s got 1200 forks, with compression and rebound adjustment and bigger Brembo calipers) and the clutch doesn’t seem to match quite with the OE slave.
Id have it up for 3800 looking to take 3500 but that does include the standard subframe, tail panel and light, exhaust and seat if you didn’t want to get into remaking custom parts.
Happy to PM if you are interested.
.
KTMsm said:
Bryanwww said:
MT07 or similar would be closer to a supermoto than an adventure bike
Depends if you're talking about the riding experience or the riding positionI've had a WR250X - really well made, titanium valves, clearance check only at 24k miles, but oil change every 3k miles. Really light, but only 30-odd BHP. Great fun, but only good for a short blast down back lanes. I had an XT660X - nice, but too heavy & under powered. Made in France with Italian bits - bomb proof engine but the fork seals kept leaking. I also had a KTM 690 SMC R, 2020 plate. Loved the lightness, power & handling, but just too focused for anything other than a Sunday B road blast. Wish I could afford to have more than one bike - it would have been a keeper!
Oh, & this type of bike is bait for our Irish caravan club friends. Don't leave it anywhere in public for more than 3 minutes....
Oh, & this type of bike is bait for our Irish caravan club friends. Don't leave it anywhere in public for more than 3 minutes....
I've seen a couple of CRF450RL's made into supermotos. They look quite good too.
https://soloracer.com/crf450lsumo.html
https://soloracer.com/crf450lsumo.html
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