What 2nd bike? Kawasaki Z750S or Suzuki 1200S Bandit?
Discussion
Having only passed my test in 2021, I’m fairly new to motorcycling but it’s fair to say I’m already hooked. My first bike was a 2019 Kawaski Z400 (great little bike) but sadly I had to sell it back in October due to a period of unemployment. I probably let it go for too little (3k) but I was in a bit of a financial hole and needed the money.
Things are on the up now and I wasn’t going to buy another bike this year (maybe next year) but my BIL kindly lent me his Vulcan S the other weekend and even though it’s not my kind of bike, I really miss riding and am not sure if I can go without this year!
Budget is 2-3k, so it’s going to be fairly old but I’d like something a bit different and a bit of an “upgrade” i.e. not just another small parallel twin but nothing too crazy!
I started looking at 2k bikes. Found a 2006 Fazer 600, new MOT, new tyres for around 2k but it was highish miles and he was a bit vague on whether the valve clearance service had been done (it would have been due around now) and that’s quite an expensive service, so I hesitated and missed out when I probably should have bought. Also looked at a 2005 SV650 and a 2009 XJ6 Diversion, which were both a bit rough and had no MOTs. The SV650 had been dropped, so the fairing was all cracked, the front fork seals were leaking and the riding position was more leant forward than I expected, which I didn’t really like (I prefer a more upright riding position). The Diversion fixed this and rode pretty nice but likewise, needed front fork seals, MOT, rear tyre and it had clearly been dropped at speed, as the tank was all dented and the bodywork scuffed on one side and it was missing rear indicators.
Went to look at a really tidy 1999 Suzuki 1200S Bandit (a bike that I lusted after as a kid). Only 20,000 miles and it looked well cared for but he hadn’t ridden it for a couple of years, so no MOT, needed 2 new tyres and the clutch seemed a bit iffy ie you put it into 1st and it would stall even before I released the lever. I only rode it at low speed on a private road. Could just be a lever adjustment, could be something else? He only wants 2k for it but the cost to get it roadworthy is entirely at my risk. Could be good to go for 3k, which is right at the top of my budget but could be more?
Alternatively, my local Kawasaki/Suzuki dealer, from which I bought my Z400 just got a 2007 Kawasaki Z750S in trade. He wanted 3,300 for it but said he’d take 3k for it cash and it’s MOTd and ready to go. A different sort of bike and its highish miles (50k) but it looks clean and seems to run well. I haven’t ridden it yet, as I was just in there to get a quote on tyres for the Bandit and I didn’t know they had this bike, so I didn’t have my riding gear with me but think I’ll take a test ride this weekend if they still have it. Looking up the specs, the Z750S is a pretty potent bike, so I wonder if perhaps it’s a bit “too much” but it is a more upright riding position with some wind protection, which I like.
I mainly use my bike for summer commuting (30 miles each way) and some pleasure riding at the weekend. The Kawasaki seems like the sensible option. Fuel injection, lighter clutch, just a generally easier ride, so that seems like the head option but the heart is really drawn to the Bandit. It’s just a cool old bike but might be a bit of a pain as a daily commuter, having to choke it, carb tuneups etc? I have yet to take a passenger but my wife and kids really want to go on it. I wouldn’t let them ride with me until I was used to the bike (so probably not this year) but I have to say that the Bandit does look like the more comfortable bike for that purpose, although buying as is and being a 24 year old bike, it could be hiding multiple issues.
So are either of these an appropriate 2nd bike for someone with 2 years riding experience or should I be looking elsewhere?
Things are on the up now and I wasn’t going to buy another bike this year (maybe next year) but my BIL kindly lent me his Vulcan S the other weekend and even though it’s not my kind of bike, I really miss riding and am not sure if I can go without this year!
Budget is 2-3k, so it’s going to be fairly old but I’d like something a bit different and a bit of an “upgrade” i.e. not just another small parallel twin but nothing too crazy!
I started looking at 2k bikes. Found a 2006 Fazer 600, new MOT, new tyres for around 2k but it was highish miles and he was a bit vague on whether the valve clearance service had been done (it would have been due around now) and that’s quite an expensive service, so I hesitated and missed out when I probably should have bought. Also looked at a 2005 SV650 and a 2009 XJ6 Diversion, which were both a bit rough and had no MOTs. The SV650 had been dropped, so the fairing was all cracked, the front fork seals were leaking and the riding position was more leant forward than I expected, which I didn’t really like (I prefer a more upright riding position). The Diversion fixed this and rode pretty nice but likewise, needed front fork seals, MOT, rear tyre and it had clearly been dropped at speed, as the tank was all dented and the bodywork scuffed on one side and it was missing rear indicators.
Went to look at a really tidy 1999 Suzuki 1200S Bandit (a bike that I lusted after as a kid). Only 20,000 miles and it looked well cared for but he hadn’t ridden it for a couple of years, so no MOT, needed 2 new tyres and the clutch seemed a bit iffy ie you put it into 1st and it would stall even before I released the lever. I only rode it at low speed on a private road. Could just be a lever adjustment, could be something else? He only wants 2k for it but the cost to get it roadworthy is entirely at my risk. Could be good to go for 3k, which is right at the top of my budget but could be more?
Alternatively, my local Kawasaki/Suzuki dealer, from which I bought my Z400 just got a 2007 Kawasaki Z750S in trade. He wanted 3,300 for it but said he’d take 3k for it cash and it’s MOTd and ready to go. A different sort of bike and its highish miles (50k) but it looks clean and seems to run well. I haven’t ridden it yet, as I was just in there to get a quote on tyres for the Bandit and I didn’t know they had this bike, so I didn’t have my riding gear with me but think I’ll take a test ride this weekend if they still have it. Looking up the specs, the Z750S is a pretty potent bike, so I wonder if perhaps it’s a bit “too much” but it is a more upright riding position with some wind protection, which I like.
I mainly use my bike for summer commuting (30 miles each way) and some pleasure riding at the weekend. The Kawasaki seems like the sensible option. Fuel injection, lighter clutch, just a generally easier ride, so that seems like the head option but the heart is really drawn to the Bandit. It’s just a cool old bike but might be a bit of a pain as a daily commuter, having to choke it, carb tuneups etc? I have yet to take a passenger but my wife and kids really want to go on it. I wouldn’t let them ride with me until I was used to the bike (so probably not this year) but I have to say that the Bandit does look like the more comfortable bike for that purpose, although buying as is and being a 24 year old bike, it could be hiding multiple issues.
So are either of these an appropriate 2nd bike for someone with 2 years riding experience or should I be looking elsewhere?
Edited by white_goodman on Tuesday 20th June 16:57
trickywoo said:
The Bandit would be my choice especially as it will have decent resale potential.
I’d bet the dealer gave £500 p/x for the Z with 50k miles on it. By the time you’ve run it near 60k you’ll have to give it away to shift it.
Any ideas what the clutch issue could be? Clutch is heavy but no slip and assist like my old bike and it’s a big motor, so I’m guessing heavy is normal? He did also say that being air-cooled, it could get fairly hot in traffic but fortunately my commute is fairly light on traffic (I start at 7am, so the roads are fairly light on traffic at that time).I’d bet the dealer gave £500 p/x for the Z with 50k miles on it. By the time you’ve run it near 60k you’ll have to give it away to shift it.
I have had two 1200 Bandits in the past, both were very reliable but the best mpg I ever got was 35mpg, they are a big old school engine. They can get hot in traffic, I was once stuck in the traffic tunnel in Brussels and had to pull over as much to the side as possible and switch the engine off for ten minutes as I was worried it might seize, not a pleasant experience. In normal traffic they will get hot but as soon you get moving they cool down quite quickly, regular oil changes help.
I would go for the Bandit, it will cost more to run than the Kawasaki 750, but it will be more fun and they are relatively simple to maintain and work on. I would try to get it a bit cheaper though.
I think there is still a Bandit owners club going, might be worth looking them up.
I would go for the Bandit, it will cost more to run than the Kawasaki 750, but it will be more fun and they are relatively simple to maintain and work on. I would try to get it a bit cheaper though.
I think there is still a Bandit owners club going, might be worth looking them up.
white_goodman said:
Any ideas what the clutch issue could be? Clutch is heavy but no slip and assist like my old bike and it’s a big motor, so I’m guessing heavy is normal? He did also say that being air-cooled, it could get fairly hot in traffic but fortunately my commute is fairly light on traffic (I start at 7am, so the roads are fairly light on traffic at that time).
My wife had a 98 one from new for 8 years/25000miles mostly commuting, clutch wasn’t noticeably heavy, Assuming it’s been looked after those engines are bombproof and not remotely stressed by road use. Never had any overheating issues with the 2 GSXR1100s I’ve had for example.Given it’s been stood for 2 years you might find the clutch plates are gummed up, not a big job to pop the cover off for a clean up especially as it will want an oil change. After that it probably wants its new fluid flushing through and potentially master + slave cylinders stripping/rebuilding. None of which should be fortunes even if you paying someone else.
Ridden a Z750 as well, not a bad bike but the B12’s engine alone makes it no contest especially if you lose the stock silencer which easily the most restrictive can I’ve ever come across. It’s not just the 15-20bhp increase it dramatically lifts the power/torque across the entire rev/range
I found the Bandit clutch to be heavier than I was used to… but my experience is mainly middle weight bikes. There was a problem with the master cylinder that caused pressure build up and the cliutch lever to become ultra heavy. Cracking the bleed nipple at the slave cylinder was a temporary fix.
(That said… think Mk 1 Bandit is going to be my next bike… on the hunt!)
(That said… think Mk 1 Bandit is going to be my next bike… on the hunt!)
Edited by ThreadKiller on Tuesday 20th June 21:21
I would keep looking for a lower mileage Z750S.
They are cracking bikes and in a way, a budget sports tourer with that half fairing and plenty of poke.
The Bandit is nice if you need that much size / poke. There is also the Bandit / Hornet / Fazer 600s, GSX750 Inazuma, Hornet 900 etc.
All good bikes in the right condition, as are SVs too. Have fun!
They are cracking bikes and in a way, a budget sports tourer with that half fairing and plenty of poke.
The Bandit is nice if you need that much size / poke. There is also the Bandit / Hornet / Fazer 600s, GSX750 Inazuma, Hornet 900 etc.
All good bikes in the right condition, as are SVs too. Have fun!
CousinDupree said:
I would keep looking for a lower mileage Z750S.
They are cracking bikes and in a way, a budget sports tourer with that half fairing and plenty of poke.
The Bandit is nice if you need that much size / poke. There is also the Bandit / Hornet / Fazer 600s, GSX750 Inazuma, Hornet 900 etc.
All good bikes in the right condition, as are SVs too. Have fun!
My bad. Closer to 30,000 miles on the Z750S actually. It was the Fazer that was on 50k. I can't really fault my old Kawasaki really. Good handling for the price, good build quality and zero reliability issues. Kind of want to try something different (Yamaha/Suzuki) but at the same time, I don't have a good reason not to buy another Kawasaki.They are cracking bikes and in a way, a budget sports tourer with that half fairing and plenty of poke.
The Bandit is nice if you need that much size / poke. There is also the Bandit / Hornet / Fazer 600s, GSX750 Inazuma, Hornet 900 etc.
All good bikes in the right condition, as are SVs too. Have fun!
Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 21st June 02:53
trickywoo said:
It’s £2k. Op says it’s tidy apart from the clutch and he’s wanted one since he was a kid.
What bike would you suggest?
There are currently 830 bikes above 600cc and under £3,000 on Biketrader. Please enlighten me as to why a 24 year old blandit (a parts bin special when new) is a good option here? What bike would you suggest?
A nice lowish mileage GSX750 Inasuma for 1.5k in London.
No connection, just looked about the right price.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/94287736...
No connection, just looked about the right price.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/94287736...
In good PH BB fashion I'm going to suggest a bike not on the list of options. You're just about into Blackbird price. It was a top of the range bike in it's day so well built with good components. It still stands up against modern competition, offers huge flexibility and is easy to ride. There are still a fair few well cared for examples with not too many miles on. I'd much rather have a Blackbird over a Bandit.
It would probably be polite of me to close the loop on this one. So long story short, the Z750 sold before I could get back there, so after some deliberation I went with the Bandit. I got the owner to take it in to the local Suzuki/Kawasaki dealership for a pre-MOT inspection and they said it needed new tyres (as the owner had already stated) and in addition new rear brake pads for the MOT. On this basis, I knocked him down to 1,800 and 600 pounds later it was MOT’d with new rear brake pads and new Michelin Pilot Sports.
Was it the right decision? Yes and no. The bike looks amazing IMHO, is really fast and sounds fantastic. It rides surprisingly well for a 24 year old bike. Brakes are strong, it shifts smoothly (I miss less shifts than on my new Z400 to be honest) and being a bit heavier than my old bike, it feels a bit more planted and compliant too. It’s really comfortable and although I had no issue with the riding position on my Z400, it’s a bit more upright even than that and I rarely need more than a quarter of a throttle, so it’s a bit easier on my wrist. It’s surprisingly docile to ride actually. I have yet to ride it in the wet and I tend to be a fair-weather biker, so will choose to take the car if I get up in the morning and it’s raining but occasionally I get caught out, so in that scenario, I’ll be sure to treat it with a bit more respect!
Downsides? If you full choke it from cold, it starts on the button every time but does take a while to warm up and can be a little stuttery when cold. It idles at 1k initially and then some kind of choke “VTEC” kicks it up to 3k and it’s loud, so my neighbours probably hate me now, as I typically leave for work around 7am (sometimes 6am)! I have noticed a bit of transmission whine in 3rd at low speed (30mph or so), not sure if this is normal but it goes away in other gears/higher speed. The clutch is quite heavy in traffic, as I rode it in the city the other day, so my wrist got a bit tired but my daily commute is mostly open road, so not too much of an issue day-to-day fortunately. The clutch issue seems to have sorted itself. I think it may have been binding a little due to lack of use but works just fine now. I had some knocking/rubbing at low speed in 1st/2nd the other day, which was concerning but I oiled the chain and that seems to have gone away. I would have assumed that the bike shop would have oiled the chain but I was wrong! I have my left front indicator out already. I’m sure that it was working and must have been for the MOT but I changed the bulb and it’s still not working, so I need to investigate. Not ideal but I guess the rear indicators being out would be more of a safety issue. The centre stand seems like it pivots in the wrong spot, as I can’t for the life of me get it up onto its centre stand and she’s a heavy old girl! Not too much of an issue. Useful for maintenance but I never had one on my old bike. Finally, my old bike was easier to justify, as it was more economical than my car (mk7 Golf 1.4 TSI) on the commute but the Bandit is most definitely not! I thought that I might get a bit more range out of it with it having a bigger tank than my old bike (19 litres vs 14 litres) but I generally bottle it at around 120 miles, as it's well in to the red and I don’t have a trip computer to give me a range estimate, so I’m filling up every couple of days. I’m sure a 6th gear to bring the revs down when cruising at high speed would certainly help (it’s revving at 4k at 60mph in 5th). It can also smell a little sulphury when cruising sometimes, so I’m, not sure what the deal is with that.
In short, the 1200 was probably overkill for me and I would have been fine with a Fazer/Z750 and they would probably be a bit easier to live with or even the Bandit 600 would have been adequate but with echoes of my car history, I always wanted a 205 GTi 1.9 but settled for the 1.6, as cheaper to insure, more economical and almost as quick but I guess this time I got the “1.9”! It’s a lot quicker than that though and the bonus was that to my surprise, it was actually a bit cheaper to insure than my Z400!
In an ideal world, I might have kept my Z400 for commuting for the ease of use and fuel economy and it was a fantastic, fun little bike and kept the Bandit for fun weekend riding/longer distances for the comfort but that wasn’t an option and the Bandit is certainly a characterful bike to live with. In the future when I’m a bit more flush, I might go with something more modern that combines the strengths of both bikes like a Z900RS/rNineT or something with power and revs like one of the Triumph/Yamaha triples or the Honda CB650R but until that point, I’m more than happy with the Bandit and am enjoying the “classic” bike experience.
I’ll probably continue to commute on it over the summer and do some fun weekend riding too and get the shop to give it a thorough going over in the autumn and iron out all the bugs. You’re always going to have a few issues with a 24 year old vehicle, especially one that hasn’t seen much use for 2 years but it seems fundamentally good/reliable. So thanks for all the advice and (fingers crossed), the ownership experience will be a good one!
Was it the right decision? Yes and no. The bike looks amazing IMHO, is really fast and sounds fantastic. It rides surprisingly well for a 24 year old bike. Brakes are strong, it shifts smoothly (I miss less shifts than on my new Z400 to be honest) and being a bit heavier than my old bike, it feels a bit more planted and compliant too. It’s really comfortable and although I had no issue with the riding position on my Z400, it’s a bit more upright even than that and I rarely need more than a quarter of a throttle, so it’s a bit easier on my wrist. It’s surprisingly docile to ride actually. I have yet to ride it in the wet and I tend to be a fair-weather biker, so will choose to take the car if I get up in the morning and it’s raining but occasionally I get caught out, so in that scenario, I’ll be sure to treat it with a bit more respect!
Downsides? If you full choke it from cold, it starts on the button every time but does take a while to warm up and can be a little stuttery when cold. It idles at 1k initially and then some kind of choke “VTEC” kicks it up to 3k and it’s loud, so my neighbours probably hate me now, as I typically leave for work around 7am (sometimes 6am)! I have noticed a bit of transmission whine in 3rd at low speed (30mph or so), not sure if this is normal but it goes away in other gears/higher speed. The clutch is quite heavy in traffic, as I rode it in the city the other day, so my wrist got a bit tired but my daily commute is mostly open road, so not too much of an issue day-to-day fortunately. The clutch issue seems to have sorted itself. I think it may have been binding a little due to lack of use but works just fine now. I had some knocking/rubbing at low speed in 1st/2nd the other day, which was concerning but I oiled the chain and that seems to have gone away. I would have assumed that the bike shop would have oiled the chain but I was wrong! I have my left front indicator out already. I’m sure that it was working and must have been for the MOT but I changed the bulb and it’s still not working, so I need to investigate. Not ideal but I guess the rear indicators being out would be more of a safety issue. The centre stand seems like it pivots in the wrong spot, as I can’t for the life of me get it up onto its centre stand and she’s a heavy old girl! Not too much of an issue. Useful for maintenance but I never had one on my old bike. Finally, my old bike was easier to justify, as it was more economical than my car (mk7 Golf 1.4 TSI) on the commute but the Bandit is most definitely not! I thought that I might get a bit more range out of it with it having a bigger tank than my old bike (19 litres vs 14 litres) but I generally bottle it at around 120 miles, as it's well in to the red and I don’t have a trip computer to give me a range estimate, so I’m filling up every couple of days. I’m sure a 6th gear to bring the revs down when cruising at high speed would certainly help (it’s revving at 4k at 60mph in 5th). It can also smell a little sulphury when cruising sometimes, so I’m, not sure what the deal is with that.
In short, the 1200 was probably overkill for me and I would have been fine with a Fazer/Z750 and they would probably be a bit easier to live with or even the Bandit 600 would have been adequate but with echoes of my car history, I always wanted a 205 GTi 1.9 but settled for the 1.6, as cheaper to insure, more economical and almost as quick but I guess this time I got the “1.9”! It’s a lot quicker than that though and the bonus was that to my surprise, it was actually a bit cheaper to insure than my Z400!
In an ideal world, I might have kept my Z400 for commuting for the ease of use and fuel economy and it was a fantastic, fun little bike and kept the Bandit for fun weekend riding/longer distances for the comfort but that wasn’t an option and the Bandit is certainly a characterful bike to live with. In the future when I’m a bit more flush, I might go with something more modern that combines the strengths of both bikes like a Z900RS/rNineT or something with power and revs like one of the Triumph/Yamaha triples or the Honda CB650R but until that point, I’m more than happy with the Bandit and am enjoying the “classic” bike experience.
I’ll probably continue to commute on it over the summer and do some fun weekend riding too and get the shop to give it a thorough going over in the autumn and iron out all the bugs. You’re always going to have a few issues with a 24 year old vehicle, especially one that hasn’t seen much use for 2 years but it seems fundamentally good/reliable. So thanks for all the advice and (fingers crossed), the ownership experience will be a good one!
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 31st July 20:23
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 31st July 20:26
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 31st July 20:27
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 31st July 20:29
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