Direct Access CBT question

Direct Access CBT question

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Networkgeek

Original Poster:

427 posts

39 months

Friday 16th June 2023
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Hi folks

Two weekends ago I had a CBT booked on a 125cc (I'm 35, full UK car licence), when I got to the test centre the instructor showed me what I could be learning on (Kawasaki 650cc) if I went for the Direct Access course.

Being a petrol head, I couldn't really say no at the time, as the 125cc looked like a death trap (skinny wheels etc).

Tomorrow I start my CBT on a 650cc, then next week I have my theory test booked and mod 1 course and test.

But, a few nights ago I saw a biker come off and it has spooked me. My only experience on a motorbike is a moto-x YZ125cc ~15 years ago.

I'm concerned I've bitten off more than I can chew, so I have a question -

If I go ahead with the CBT tomorrow, can I go out to buy a 125cc to practice on? I know I could do this if I had booked just a CBT, but seeing as I've paid for the direct access I'm not sure if this would be possible?

My intention of the bike licence isn't really to buy a bike, it's just a life skill I've always wanted to have.

Thanks guys
NG

Sycamore

1,912 posts

124 months

Friday 16th June 2023
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If you do your CBT you can get a 125 regardless of whether it's part of your DA.

Direct Access is essentially just a package deal, usually containing CBT, Theory, Mod 1, Mod 2, and usually a few lessons thrown in.
It's not a "different" licence and so on.
I never bothered doing a strict DA course as I'd had 125's previously and the training school reckoned it'd be cheaper for me to just pay for everything individually, which it was

OverSteery

3,655 posts

237 months

Friday 16th June 2023
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Once you have your CBT certificate you can ride a 125.

Direct Access (DAS) is the term that the DVSA use to describe a rider moving straight from a CBT directly onto an unrestricted (ie unlimited power/weight) licence.

If you are under 24 ages you can gain a full (ie not provision) licence for a restricted motorcycle licence after CBT. You can later then go onto a unrestricted licence. This is terms by the DVSA as "Progress", as you are riding progressively larger /more powerful bikes. Requirement for CBT & theory are different to DAS.

Training schools build courses around these paths and may use the term DAS and Progressive.

Process and terminology is all government designed and difficult to understand and follow.




airsafari87

2,809 posts

188 months

Friday 16th June 2023
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Networkgeek said:
But, a few nights ago I saw a biker come off and it has spooked me.
Flip that on its head and look at it from another perspective.
How many bikers did you see today/yesterday/this week/this month who didn’t fall off?
I dare say that that number would massively outweigh the ones that you did see fall off.

It’s easy to focus on the negative, but just because you saw one person fall off it doesn’t automatically mean that you will fall off, so try to put a positive spin on it and alleviate your spooked fears.

Networkgeek

Original Poster:

427 posts

39 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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Update -

I decided to at a minimum do the CBT, unfortunately, I didn't progress to ride on the road. I agree that I didn't feel comfortable riding and stopping the bike at speed, so it was the correct decision.

I was absolutely fine with low-speed bike manoeuvres - U-turns, slalom between cones, leaning the bike for sweeper corners, operating the clutch, gears and brakes.

But, I totally fell apart when I had to accelerate briskly up to 35mph and do an emergency stop. I couldn't coordinate braking and gearing at speed.

I honestly thought I would breeze the CBT on the 650cc. I've always been good at anything mechanical and I'm a natural with operating plant machinery, which requires the operator to do different things with hands and feet, but riding a motorbike isn't easy for me.

So I'm back at the bike school later this week to get to grips with it all.

I'm half tempted to buy a cheap 50/125cc motorbike to practice in the fields/yard where I live.

PistonRings

273 posts

64 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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Networkgeek said:
Update -

I decided to at a minimum do the CBT, unfortunately, I didn't progress to ride on the road. I agree that I didn't feel comfortable riding and stopping the bike at speed, so it was the correct decision.

I was absolutely fine with low-speed bike manoeuvres - U-turns, slalom between cones, leaning the bike for sweeper corners, operating the clutch, gears and brakes.

But, I totally fell apart when I had to accelerate briskly up to 35mph and do an emergency stop. I couldn't coordinate braking and gearing at speed.

I honestly thought I would breeze the CBT on the 650cc. I've always been good at anything mechanical and I'm a natural with operating plant machinery, which requires the operator to do different things with hands and feet, but riding a motorbike isn't easy for me.

So I'm back at the bike school later this week to get to grips with it all.

I'm half tempted to buy a cheap 50/125cc motorbike to practice in the fields/yard where I live.
I hated the CBT. The entire experience was horrible, completely trash bikes, the instructors had very little patience, and I got home at the end of the day very deflated.

I knew I wanted to ride, so I booked a session with another local training school and essentially borrowed a 125 and their car park for about 3 hours. After that I bought a KTM Duke and ran around on it for 1000 miles. Those two acts built my confidence so when I went on to do Mod 1 and 2 training, I just hopped on and was more than happy. Sold the KTM for about £500 less than I bought it for, and I think that for the confidence it gave me was well worth the cost.

People will say it's preferable to just do DAS and get on a big bike (which is what I would say to most people), but after my CBT, no way in hell would I have jumped on a big bike and I'd have walked from the process.

Good luck with it!

Networkgeek

Original Poster:

427 posts

39 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
PistonRings said:
I hated the CBT. The entire experience was horrible, completely trash bikes, the instructors had very little patience, and I got home at the end of the day very deflated.

I knew I wanted to ride, so I booked a session with another local training school and essentially borrowed a 125 and their car park for about 3 hours. After that I bought a KTM Duke and ran around on it for 1000 miles. Those two acts built my confidence so when I went on to do Mod 1 and 2 training, I just hopped on and was more than happy. Sold the KTM for about £500 less than I bought it for, and I think that for the confidence it gave me was well worth the cost.

People will say it's preferable to just do DAS and get on a big bike (which is what I would say to most people), but after my CBT, no way in hell would I have jumped on a big bike and I'd have walked from the process.

Good luck with it!
Thanks mate, I appreciate it.

For me, I don't feel like the CBT is enough seat time to progress to Mod 1. All the guys I know who have recently passed their tests have all come from a background of riding motorbikes. Whereas I don't have that experience, so I will need more seat time.

I want to complete the CBT then I'll buy something like you did and I'll go out in the evenings to practice on quiet roads / industrial estates.

I don't regret doing the CBT on a 650cc, as it was fun to experience the bike, but it might not have been the best bike to learn on.

MDUBZ

915 posts

106 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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The MOD 1 and 2 are really just demonstrations that you have some basic controls and a bit of road craft to demonstrate you are safe to be allowed out on your own. The learning really starts and continues after you pass as you build up experience and get things wrong hopefully with a bit of threshold for correcting it.

The training the schools offer as part of the DAS are designed to get you through the tests - like most things the danger of going out on your own is you practise badly (lots of hours repeating things you shouldn't do which you have to unlearn for the purpose of the tests). Might be worth just booking a few extra hours of lessons. The hardest part for me initially was allowing myself more thinking time to string certain things together. things which are done subconsciously in a car required actual thinking time on a bike which meant I needed to allow myself more time and distance to do things or I'd get in a muddle e.g. the approach to roundabouts, identifying the layout, what exit I wanted, sorting braking, gears, position etc. you'll dial in fairly quickly I'm sure but it can be a little scary the first few times as panic sets in smile

People learn at different rates so if you feel you need extra seat time go for it, you do you, no shame in that.

TimmyMallett

2,971 posts

118 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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I didn't get out of the carpark on my CBT. Mine didn't help as there was nowhere to get up to more than 10mph so I just came back for a second day at a reduced price and spent most of the day on the road with some others doing their DAS (as it was then). Don't fret.

daniel-5zjw7

617 posts

107 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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Hang on, am i understanding right that they put you on a 650 for your CBT? why on earth would they do that? I thought you had to ride a 125cc for the CBT?

Just because you plan to do your DAS i don't see how that can allow to use a 650 for the CBT..

Personally if i were you I'd either ask to use a 125 for the next attempt or go to another school as even if it is all OK for the school to put you on a 650 I'd suggest they aren't doing a good job of reading what is best for you.

Sycamore

1,912 posts

124 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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daniel-5zjw7 said:
Hang on, am i understanding right that they put you on a 650 for your CBT? why on earth would they do that? I thought you had to ride a 125cc for the CBT?

Just because you plan to do your DAS i don't see how that can allow to use a 650 for the CBT..

Personally if i were you I'd either ask to use a 125 for the next attempt or go to another school as even if it is all OK for the school to put you on a 650 I'd suggest they aren't doing a good job of reading what is best for you.
Provided you're old enough, you can do CBT on a 650 just as you would a 125.
In this case it seems like the OP made the choice to use the 650.
125 Would've been easier in my opinion, especially as they seem a little nervous. Whether or not a bigger bike can be objectively easier to ride, the extra power and weight can't be a great thing for someone in OP's situation

hiccy18

2,934 posts

73 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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daniel-5zjw7 said:
Hang on, am i understanding right that they put you on a 650 for your CBT? why on earth would they do that? I thought you had to ride a 125cc for the CBT?

Just because you plan to do your DAS i don't see how that can allow to use a 650 for the CBT..

Personally if i were you I'd either ask to use a 125 for the next attempt or go to another school as even if it is all OK for the school to put you on a 650 I'd suggest they aren't doing a good job of reading what is best for you.
I had similar thoughts, I don't see the point of doing a CBT on a 650, sounds like a training school cheaping out on the bike fleet.

Anyway, we all learn different things at different rates, and in different ways, no harm taking more time. Even once you've got your licence it's literally just the start of the learning journey.

Networkgeek

Original Poster:

427 posts

39 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
Sycamore said:
daniel-5zjw7 said:
Hang on, am i understanding right that they put you on a 650 for your CBT? why on earth would they do that? I thought you had to ride a 125cc for the CBT?

Just because you plan to do your DAS i don't see how that can allow to use a 650 for the CBT..

Personally if i were you I'd either ask to use a 125 for the next attempt or go to another school as even if it is all OK for the school to put you on a 650 I'd suggest they aren't doing a good job of reading what is best for you.
Provided you're old enough, you can do CBT on a 650 just as you would a 125.
In this case it seems like the OP made the choice to use the 650.
125 Would've been easier in my opinion, especially as they seem a little nervous. Whether or not a bigger bike can be objectively easier to ride, the extra power and weight can't be a great thing for someone in OP's situation
Hi guys

Yes, it was totally my own doing and a little encouragement from the instructor to book DAS.

Their 125cc geared bikes looked awful (rusty and very thin tyres), whereas their Kawasaki Z650cc bikes looked incredible. I had everything booked in (theory, mod 1&2), however, we have postponed the mod assessments until I'm up to scratch.

I'm now thinking of completing the CBT on a 125cc and buying a bike to practice on, while also booking some lessons on the 650cc to get used to it.

I don't care about how much I spend on learning to ride, I would rather be safe and in the knowledge, I can react to a situation without panicking.



ghibbett

1,903 posts

191 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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Keep at it OP.

I did my CBT in January. I have no history of biking in my family and, until my CBT, had never ridden a bike.

I certainly found the CBT challenging, but that's what I enjoyed the most about it.

In terms of your emergency stop practice, that's why you practice in a paddock/off-road area in the first instance. I found CBT and those early lessons to be like patting your head while rubbing your stomach. I recall coming up to a 'junction' (marked out with cones) and instead of indicating I held the horn whilst simultaneously and inexplicably pulling the clutch and revving the engine. I looked and sounded a right prat, but it just spurred me on to practice more and improve.

If you're interested in biking, then it's well worth sticking with it.

Networkgeek

Original Poster:

427 posts

39 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
ghibbett said:
Keep at it OP.

I did my CBT in January. I have no history of biking in my family and, until my CBT, had never ridden a bike.

I certainly found the CBT challenging, but that's what I enjoyed the most about it.

In terms of your emergency stop practice, that's why you practice in a paddock/off-road area in the first instance. I found CBT and those early lessons to be like patting your head while rubbing your stomach. I recall coming up to a 'junction' (marked out with cones) and instead of indicating I held the horn whilst simultaneously and inexplicably pulling the clutch and revving the engine. I looked and sounded a right prat, but it just spurred me on to practice more and improve.

If you're interested in biking, then it's well worth sticking with it.
laughlaugh

My biggest cockup was after accelerating up to 35/40mph then doing a gradual stop using both brakes and shifting down to 1st (clutch in). I spooked myself by how quickly the bike shot off, then I grabbed the front brake, flicked the gear lever down into 1st then pulled the clutch. If the bike didn't have a wet clutch, I'm sure the rear wheel would have locked up. It was just so much to think about and I really wasn't expecting the bike to accelerate so quickly.

I've always wanted to learn to ride a bike, and lately, I've become obsessed with owning an Indian Bobber Scout.

I'm determined to pass my test, I just need more saddle time

Marquezs Stabilisers

1,505 posts

67 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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daniel-5zjw7 said:
Hang on, am i understanding right that they put you on a 650 for your CBT? why on earth would they do that? I thought you had to ride a 125cc for the CBT?

Just because you plan to do your DAS i don't see how that can allow to use a 650 for the CBT..

Personally if i were you I'd either ask to use a 125 for the next attempt or go to another school as even if it is all OK for the school to put you on a 650 I'd suggest they aren't doing a good job of reading what is best for you.
You can do your CBT on anything provided the instructor has a DAS qualification. It's usually a nice wee way to get people who have booked multiple CBTs over the years to graduate, or get something out of the day for someone who already has significant big bike experience. I've taught CBTs on Honda and Kawasaki 650s and even a Honda NC700 Integra scooter. It depends how much experience someone has - and schools are usually guided by what the pupils tell them...

daniel-5zjw7

617 posts

107 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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OK, but I still think it was a daft idea them even suggesting to put you on a 650 based on the experience you've said you have so far. It also sounds like you may have gone for the 650 based on seeing the condition of the schools 125s.. which isn't something you should have to consider.

Adding to that your comments about not being overly concerned with the cost and wanting to learn right just makes me think further that you're not with the right school.

I was very similar to you in terms of wanting to do it right firstly over and above cost, I did my CBT with one school but then switched to another simply because I did not find the first lot professional enough for me and wasn't that keen on their equipment. It may very well have been a 'me' problem but I know how I learn best and I wasn't prepared to compromise. It was my decision to make as it is yours.

I did see someone mention sometimes its easier to ride a bigger bike than a smaller one, but in my opinion this only applies once you've experience riding a smaller one.. yes a bigger bike can feel more stable etc, but whereas its quite hard to get it badly on a 125, it can happen quickly and easily on a 600+.

Tam_Mullen

2,359 posts

178 months

Monday 19th June 2023
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I rode offroad bikes for years round the family farm, then had a few years off bikes while i got into cars on the road etc.

Turned 24 and decided to do my DAS, I hated the 125cc bikes but found it was a very important step in learning to ride bikes on the road. Then when started lessons on their big bikes (CFMoto ER6 clones) I was amazed at how heavy they felt, but as others have said they are a lot more stable on the road.

OP stick at it, but maybe you have to swallow your pride a little, and go back and do the CBT on the 125, I expect youll be more comfortable on it.

Its very easy to forget the performance on offer even with a Z650. A car equivalent youre talking a pretty serious sports car. Definitely not something you'd be doing your driving lessons in or have as a first car.

Marquezs Stabilisers

1,505 posts

67 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
daniel-5zjw7 said:
OK, but I still think it was a daft idea them even suggesting to put you on a 650 based on the experience you've said you have so far. It also sounds like you may have gone for the 650 based on seeing the condition of the schools 125s.. which isn't something you should have to consider.

Adding to that your comments about not being overly concerned with the cost and wanting to learn right just makes me think further that you're not with the right school.

I was very similar to you in terms of wanting to do it right firstly over and above cost, I did my CBT with one school but then switched to another simply because I did not find the first lot professional enough for me and wasn't that keen on their equipment. It may very well have been a 'me' problem but I know how I learn best and I wasn't prepared to compromise. It was my decision to make as it is yours.

I did see someone mention sometimes its easier to ride a bigger bike than a smaller one, but in my opinion this only applies once you've experience riding a smaller one.. yes a bigger bike can feel more stable etc, but whereas its quite hard to get it badly on a 125, it can happen quickly and easily on a 600+.
Very much agree, there's no way you'd put a total newbie on a 650. The problem you sometimes have is that training school bikes, festooned with crash bars and not the most cosmetically pleasing at the best of times (it's a waste of money), come over as Mickey Mouse - especially the 125s. People sometimes need to swallow their egos and begin at the beginning.

TheTrash

1,848 posts

212 months

Monday 19th June 2023
quotequote all
daniel-5zjw7 said:
Hang on, am i understanding right that they put you on a 650 for your CBT? why on earth would they do that? I thought you had to ride a 125cc for the CBT?

Just because you plan to do your DAS i don't see how that can allow to use a 650 for the CBT..

Personally if i were you I'd either ask to use a 125 for the next attempt or go to another school as even if it is all OK for the school to put you on a 650 I'd suggest they aren't doing a good job of reading what is best for you.
I did the road part of my CBT on a 690 duke as the 125's were too small for me, I found it picking it up fairly easy and passed Mod 1 and 2 first time. I echo what someone stated earlier that the proper learning starts once you have your licence and get some miles in.