Discussion
I think i've got it.
I re-did my CBT recently and passed my theory, have a Keeway 125 which i'm trying to gain experience on and am taking lessons at the moment for my full test (unrestricted, i'm 40)
I'm learning on an old '99 Fazer 600 and i've got the bug. I'm sure it's a shed compared to a lot of the bikes on here but yeah, i'm liking and enjoying it..... Bug has been got.....
BUT.....I feel i really need to loosen up a bit. I can feel myself tensing up at higher speeds. I've been pootling around on a 125 for a while and feel 'fairly' comfortable on that - but with the much increased performance on the 600, even on lessons (so not using the performance), my instructor is probably aware that i don't seem to be comfortable yet going around corners at (what feels to me) like high speeds - but it's not, it's just me kinda...feeling like i'm not sure if i can get round.
Is this normal and will i 'get used to it'?
I just feel like i'm 'good' with very steady riding but like...on a NSL road, getting up to 60/70 and then having a corner come, even if it's a slight corner, i am slowing down a lot when i don't really need to.
I'm getting a feeling of 'i wont get around the bend at that speed' when in reality it's not a great speed at all.
The instructor has gone ahead of me a few times and said follow me, watch me kinda thing and around the bends i'm just way behind. He's in no way pushing it, just going at whatever speeds the traffic is flowing at etc it's just the feeling i get that i can't get around the bend. Being cautious but probably too much so.
Still early days, i just wondered if anyone else has or does feel like this?
I re-did my CBT recently and passed my theory, have a Keeway 125 which i'm trying to gain experience on and am taking lessons at the moment for my full test (unrestricted, i'm 40)
I'm learning on an old '99 Fazer 600 and i've got the bug. I'm sure it's a shed compared to a lot of the bikes on here but yeah, i'm liking and enjoying it..... Bug has been got.....
BUT.....I feel i really need to loosen up a bit. I can feel myself tensing up at higher speeds. I've been pootling around on a 125 for a while and feel 'fairly' comfortable on that - but with the much increased performance on the 600, even on lessons (so not using the performance), my instructor is probably aware that i don't seem to be comfortable yet going around corners at (what feels to me) like high speeds - but it's not, it's just me kinda...feeling like i'm not sure if i can get round.
Is this normal and will i 'get used to it'?
I just feel like i'm 'good' with very steady riding but like...on a NSL road, getting up to 60/70 and then having a corner come, even if it's a slight corner, i am slowing down a lot when i don't really need to.
I'm getting a feeling of 'i wont get around the bend at that speed' when in reality it's not a great speed at all.
The instructor has gone ahead of me a few times and said follow me, watch me kinda thing and around the bends i'm just way behind. He's in no way pushing it, just going at whatever speeds the traffic is flowing at etc it's just the feeling i get that i can't get around the bend. Being cautious but probably too much so.
Still early days, i just wondered if anyone else has or does feel like this?
The biggest improvement you will get is in relation to where you're looking. I'll bet that you are currently focusing on the tarmac 20 to 40ft ahead of you, using your peripheral vision to handle your view around that.
You need to lift your focus up and look right to the vanishing point. On a straight, level road that's the point where you can no longer see the road. On a bend that's the point where the road becomes obscured behind bend its self. (where the two verges appear to meet).
This is easy to say, and easy to do for 2 or 3 seconds but keeping your focus up over a longer period takes lots of practice but, it's really worth the effort. You'll find you are much more relaxed, in control and smoother ... and safer!
Try it on your 125 and I'm sure you'll notice an almost instant improvement.
You need to lift your focus up and look right to the vanishing point. On a straight, level road that's the point where you can no longer see the road. On a bend that's the point where the road becomes obscured behind bend its self. (where the two verges appear to meet).
This is easy to say, and easy to do for 2 or 3 seconds but keeping your focus up over a longer period takes lots of practice but, it's really worth the effort. You'll find you are much more relaxed, in control and smoother ... and safer!
Try it on your 125 and I'm sure you'll notice an almost instant improvement.
black-k1 said:
The biggest improvement you will get is in relation to where you're looking. I'll bet that you are currently focusing on the tarmac 20 to 40ft ahead of you, using your peripheral vision to handle your view around that.
You need to lift your focus up and look right to the vanishing point. On a straight, level road that's the point where you can no longer see the road. On a bend that's the point where the road becomes obscured behind bend its self. (where the two verges appear to meet).
This is easy to say, and easy to do for 2 or 3 seconds but keeping your focus up over a longer period takes lots of practice but, it's really worth the effort. You'll find you are much more relaxed, in control and smoother ... and safer!
Try it on your 125 and I'm sure you'll notice an almost instant improvement.
Thank you. Yes, my instructor has said the same thing. I am trying but finding it hard to keep doing it. He is saying i'm riding the bike as if i'm driving a car (in this and other ways) and need to get out of it. To be honest my head is blown at times by how 'different' it feels and all of the things i need to remember. You need to lift your focus up and look right to the vanishing point. On a straight, level road that's the point where you can no longer see the road. On a bend that's the point where the road becomes obscured behind bend its self. (where the two verges appear to meet).
This is easy to say, and easy to do for 2 or 3 seconds but keeping your focus up over a longer period takes lots of practice but, it's really worth the effort. You'll find you are much more relaxed, in control and smoother ... and safer!
Try it on your 125 and I'm sure you'll notice an almost instant improvement.
I obviously knew it would be different to driving a car (and i've ridden 125 bikes and scooters before so dont even feel like i'm coming from zero experience but yeah. Finding it quite hard going to 'process' everything at the moment, i have to say.
Are you using counter steering?
When I started I found higher speed corners difficult because I just didnt seem to go round as easily as I did lower speed corners. I was following instructions to grip the bike with my thighs and keep the grip on the bars light.
Learning to deliberately countersteer made all the difference.
When I started I found higher speed corners difficult because I just didnt seem to go round as easily as I did lower speed corners. I was following instructions to grip the bike with my thighs and keep the grip on the bars light.
Learning to deliberately countersteer made all the difference.
TooLateForAName said:
Are you using counter steering?
When I started I found higher speed corners difficult because I just didnt seem to go round as easily as I did lower speed corners. I was following instructions to grip the bike with my thighs and keep the grip on the bars light.
Learning to deliberately countersteer made all the difference.
I am but i will bear this in mind, thank you.When I started I found higher speed corners difficult because I just didnt seem to go round as easily as I did lower speed corners. I was following instructions to grip the bike with my thighs and keep the grip on the bars light.
Learning to deliberately countersteer made all the difference.
I think the overall thing is....i mustn't be used to 'learning' anything new having not done so in my life for a while and it does all seem to baffle me at the moment!
If you've ridden a push bike, scooter & 125 then you're over thinking it right now. Keep your elbows loose, put a little positive throttle on and look where you want to go. The bike will corner far, far faster than you seem to think it will. If you think your brain can handle it you could try a pushing little on the inside bar to initiate the turn (then relax), but right now it sounds like a confidence thing. Frankly, it's like riding a bike, chill out. 
BTW as a teenager 100% I couldn't get my head around how a bicycle steered, then similar on a motorbike, I couldn't understand why sometimes it steered so well, and other times it felt like trying to turn an oil tanker. So no, you are far from alone!
BTW as a teenager 100% I couldn't get my head around how a bicycle steered, then similar on a motorbike, I couldn't understand why sometimes it steered so well, and other times it felt like trying to turn an oil tanker. So no, you are far from alone!
Edited by hiccy18 on Thursday 1st June 19:00
You are going through exactly the same confidence learning curve that I remember going through ( and to an extent still am I guess as I don’t have the bottle to throw it round like I see others doing).
As a committed car driver it just doesn’t feel right leaning the bike over and trusting the rubber will keep you safe. I learnt in the depths of winter and there was frost everywhere ( but salt on the roads however I was still very very uneasy).
I found some curves near my house that I know well and spent a few sessions going around them. Bends that I know well, can see what’s coming the other way and which I could slowly increase my confidence in the grip of the tyre.
I doesn’t matter how many times people say the grip will exceed your bottle you just have to learn it for yourself. It just takes time, and is something you can do on your 125.
All said and done your future riding is all about your own enjoyment. If you enjoy just bumbling about that’s fine, there is no requirement to scrape the pegs on every corner. Do what you enjoy stick within your comfort zone.
Cornering technique on unfamiliar bends is different to anxiety about the bike sliding out from under you. I found the police riding technique book very helpful to teach road positioning, assessing the bend etc, for that.
As a committed car driver it just doesn’t feel right leaning the bike over and trusting the rubber will keep you safe. I learnt in the depths of winter and there was frost everywhere ( but salt on the roads however I was still very very uneasy).
I found some curves near my house that I know well and spent a few sessions going around them. Bends that I know well, can see what’s coming the other way and which I could slowly increase my confidence in the grip of the tyre.
I doesn’t matter how many times people say the grip will exceed your bottle you just have to learn it for yourself. It just takes time, and is something you can do on your 125.
All said and done your future riding is all about your own enjoyment. If you enjoy just bumbling about that’s fine, there is no requirement to scrape the pegs on every corner. Do what you enjoy stick within your comfort zone.
Cornering technique on unfamiliar bends is different to anxiety about the bike sliding out from under you. I found the police riding technique book very helpful to teach road positioning, assessing the bend etc, for that.
As long as you have good tyres and the roads are good just push it a bit on the 125. You can properly take the piss and adjusting your line is easier on a light bike.
If you don't feel confident throwing it into corners, ride on a striaght road and pretend you are warming your tyres for the next GP.
If you don't feel confident throwing it into corners, ride on a striaght road and pretend you are warming your tyres for the next GP.
1. As everyone says, look where you want to go. I found it helps if I exaggerate this by turning my head and shoulders.
2. Channel your tension into your knees gripping the tank. Bend your arms at the elbow helps them soften.
3. Don't put pressure on yourself to progress. Nobody is judging you. Learning to be comfortable and fluent on a motorcycle takes time
2. Channel your tension into your knees gripping the tank. Bend your arms at the elbow helps them soften.
3. Don't put pressure on yourself to progress. Nobody is judging you. Learning to be comfortable and fluent on a motorcycle takes time
Thank you everyone. Nice to know some others have felt the same and understand.
Yes, i think it's the feeling of 'will the bike slide' or 'will i wash wide' when i know in reality i am not going anywhere near the speed or riding to make that happen - but despite this my brain goes 'slow down, to be sure'.
Practice practice practice. It's funny, i feel like the earlier part of my lesson went quite well, it was just on the way back when i tensed up, even though i didn't think or want to. The brain is a funny thing, or at least mine is.
Did some Mod 1 practice too, did reasonably well on the figure of 8, cones and emergency stop but still struggling with the U turn in particular.
Enjoying it though and want to stick at it.
Yes, i think it's the feeling of 'will the bike slide' or 'will i wash wide' when i know in reality i am not going anywhere near the speed or riding to make that happen - but despite this my brain goes 'slow down, to be sure'.
Practice practice practice. It's funny, i feel like the earlier part of my lesson went quite well, it was just on the way back when i tensed up, even though i didn't think or want to. The brain is a funny thing, or at least mine is.
Did some Mod 1 practice too, did reasonably well on the figure of 8, cones and emergency stop but still struggling with the U turn in particular.
Enjoying it though and want to stick at it.
TooLateForAName said:
Are you using counter steering?
When I started I found higher speed corners difficult because I just didnt seem to go round as easily as I did lower speed corners. I was following instructions to grip the bike with my thighs and keep the grip on the bars light.
Learning to deliberately countersteer made all the difference.
This.When I started I found higher speed corners difficult because I just didnt seem to go round as easily as I did lower speed corners. I was following instructions to grip the bike with my thighs and keep the grip on the bars light.
Learning to deliberately countersteer made all the difference.
I'm new to biking (passed Mod 2 in early March).
First trips out on my new bike and I definitely had times when I thought I couldn't get round a corner as couldn't seem to get the bike to lean enough. Then I tried counter-steering and everything became so much easier. The bikes just gracefully dips. It's brilliant.
TooLateForAName said:
Are you using counter steering?
When I started I found higher speed corners difficult because I just didnt seem to go round as easily as I did lower speed corners. I was following instructions to grip the bike with my thighs and keep the grip on the bars light.
Learning to deliberately countersteer made all the difference.
This. Learn how to steer i.e. countersteer.When I started I found higher speed corners difficult because I just didnt seem to go round as easily as I did lower speed corners. I was following instructions to grip the bike with my thighs and keep the grip on the bars light.
Learning to deliberately countersteer made all the difference.
Looking where you want to go also helps but knowing how to use the bars to steer will get you around 100% of corners and out of 99% of sticky situations.
Random anecdote. I entered a right hander last weekend a little too hot. Double radius, corner tightened.
The options were to brake hard and crash or steer harder. I pushed hard on the right bar, held my line and accelerated out of the corner.
Only drama was the footpeg scraping on the tarmac.
Look at any YouTube motorcycle crash compilation and you'll see people running off the road at the gentlest of corners because they panic, freeze and don't know how to steer.
The reality is that we can all feel that a ride was a bit ropey even when it’s not.
I went out for 50 miles or so on Monday with a mate following & I didn’t feel happy with a few sets of bends, probably owing to excess gravel making me wary, but he said there was nothing obvious to him.
So don’t worry, better to be cautious & arrive in one piece. Over time the percentage you are not happy with will reduce.
I went out for 50 miles or so on Monday with a mate following & I didn’t feel happy with a few sets of bends, probably owing to excess gravel making me wary, but he said there was nothing obvious to him.
So don’t worry, better to be cautious & arrive in one piece. Over time the percentage you are not happy with will reduce.
It's fairly normal
I'm a fast car driver and when I started road biking I was aware that I was making mistakes at far slower speeds
I just went out at quiet times to practice - my problem was that I'd ride fast, mess something up / scare myself and then get frustrated and do the same again
So I set myself limits - don't go over say 70 on the straights and slow to say 40 before the bends, once I'd mastered that I'd raise my limits
You need to set yourself realistic targets stick to them until you're happy and then raise them
It's far easier if you go out when there's not much traffic about so you can concentrate on your riding - I'd even pull in to let cars past so they weren't a distraction
It helps to cast your mind back to when you were learning to drive - you weren't great at that straight away either !
I'm a fast car driver and when I started road biking I was aware that I was making mistakes at far slower speeds
I just went out at quiet times to practice - my problem was that I'd ride fast, mess something up / scare myself and then get frustrated and do the same again
So I set myself limits - don't go over say 70 on the straights and slow to say 40 before the bends, once I'd mastered that I'd raise my limits
You need to set yourself realistic targets stick to them until you're happy and then raise them
It's far easier if you go out when there's not much traffic about so you can concentrate on your riding - I'd even pull in to let cars past so they weren't a distraction
It helps to cast your mind back to when you were learning to drive - you weren't great at that straight away either !
black-k1 said:
The feeling it'll slide comes from being tense. Forcing yourself to relax your arms and your grip on the bars will help but, the big one is, you'll be looking at the verge/edge of the road and and your sub conscious will be telling you that's where you're going to end up.
As has been mentioned, you go where you look!
I can't stress enough how consciously forcing yourself to look up and through the corner will make the whole thing significantly easier.
Merde merde merde merde!As has been mentioned, you go where you look!
I can't stress enough how consciously forcing yourself to look up and through the corner will make the whole thing significantly easier.
I’m only really a few weeks in front of the OP.
Keen cyclist but..
Never ridden a motorcycle until starting my lessons etc.
I would go out on my learner bike and feel very apprehensive around the bends. In fact even the wind blast at 50 plus felt a bit much at first.
I even thought that biking wasn’t for me.
But here I am a few months later and feeling much happier and enjoying it.
Been out today on the Tuono and getting the hang of it I think.
By no means faultless but I’m just out on my own so the mistakes are just for my attention. It also means I can cruise for a bit if I want.
I’m starting to enjoy the bends and winding it on a bit too.
Keep at it OP
On a side note. I don’t really enjoy being wrapped up in the warm weather. Black Oxford jeans were pretty warm when off the bike. Couldn’t wait to get my shorts back on when home!
Keen cyclist but..
Never ridden a motorcycle until starting my lessons etc.
I would go out on my learner bike and feel very apprehensive around the bends. In fact even the wind blast at 50 plus felt a bit much at first.
I even thought that biking wasn’t for me.
But here I am a few months later and feeling much happier and enjoying it.
Been out today on the Tuono and getting the hang of it I think.
By no means faultless but I’m just out on my own so the mistakes are just for my attention. It also means I can cruise for a bit if I want.
I’m starting to enjoy the bends and winding it on a bit too.
Keep at it OP
On a side note. I don’t really enjoy being wrapped up in the warm weather. Black Oxford jeans were pretty warm when off the bike. Couldn’t wait to get my shorts back on when home!
I had, and to an extent still do have a similar issue. I’ve kind of accepted in my mind I’m never going to be a ‘knee down’ biker, but I’m far more fluid and confident than I used to be.
Counter steering & looking where you want to go as others have mentioned are two big things, but for me the main issue was avoiding ‘over thinking.’ At the end of the day, a motorbike is a big heavy push-bike with an engine. It behaves in essentially the same manner. I’d been a confident and regular cyclist for years, so my ‘fix’ was essentially to treat the motorbike the same. Get on it and ride it without thinking about the fact that ‘I’m riding a motorbike.’ Just ride.
I’m not saying be careless or anything like that, but not making a riding a ‘big thing’ in your mind. Making a conscious effort not to overthink things. As you get more experienced and more confident this will be more natural, and you’ll be more relaxed about the whole thing.
Edited to add - you also don’t *have* to ride a bike like your hair’s on fire. It’s good to be confident and make progress when you’re riding, but don’t fall into the trap of thinking that to be a ‘proper’ biker you have to be pushing every corner to it’s limits. A relaxed bimble is a perfectly valid way to enjoy a bike!
Counter steering & looking where you want to go as others have mentioned are two big things, but for me the main issue was avoiding ‘over thinking.’ At the end of the day, a motorbike is a big heavy push-bike with an engine. It behaves in essentially the same manner. I’d been a confident and regular cyclist for years, so my ‘fix’ was essentially to treat the motorbike the same. Get on it and ride it without thinking about the fact that ‘I’m riding a motorbike.’ Just ride.
I’m not saying be careless or anything like that, but not making a riding a ‘big thing’ in your mind. Making a conscious effort not to overthink things. As you get more experienced and more confident this will be more natural, and you’ll be more relaxed about the whole thing.
Edited to add - you also don’t *have* to ride a bike like your hair’s on fire. It’s good to be confident and make progress when you’re riding, but don’t fall into the trap of thinking that to be a ‘proper’ biker you have to be pushing every corner to it’s limits. A relaxed bimble is a perfectly valid way to enjoy a bike!
Edited by pip t on Sunday 4th June 16:52
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