KTM SAS v 1250GS

[snagzie]

edit: Bought a new SAS. Arrived with pics on page 4




Currently got a GSXS1000F. Been fine, just want to have pillion but still fun. Relevant ex bikes include Vstrom (boring but good pillion), K1300S (great but old).

I'm 44 and around 100kg and a pillion half that. Just on weight unfortunately!

Ultimately I enjoyed the Vstrom positioning, but the engine was boring. The K1300S was great but was 3 bikes ago now and want something modern. The current GSXS1000F is fine for non pillion but miss the twins and I can afford better. Not a bad bike at all despite the reviews,

Going a test ride on a 1250 GS (non A) on Thursday, and a KTM SAS on Friday.

Price wise the SAS is £14.5k after a trade-in £2k discount, The GS's seem miles more expensive but hold their value better and I think Bowker Preston might be doing a £1250 discount on the non-A GS with finance.

More importantly, has anyone else come across the mild dilemma of having to choose between the 2? I understand the KTM will potentially have reliability risks, but it's with a warranty and it's a close shop (Wigan). The GS needs no intro.

Any opinions?

edit - I'm 6 foot 1 but only a 32inch leg

Edited by snagzie on Tuesday 30th May 20:02

Edited by snagzie on Thursday 22 June 16:16

Edited by snagzie on Thursday 22 June 16:17

[Tribal Chestnut]

S1000XR? I’ve a 2018, but the latest version is a little glitzier and more refined.

My daughter’s 5’8” and happy as a pillion on the back.

Edit: as with other similar bikes, it helps being fairly tall.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

I've owned a R1200RT (not quite a GS type) and I've ridden a 1290SAR and 1000Vstrom.

All day long a 1290. I just like the way KTMs ride/feel. You're either a fan or not.

The 1290 felt like a event.

Fantastic dilemma though.

Edit
The 1000vstrom (current) is a great plain, vanilla mile muncher but it's missing soul.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Tuesday 30th May 18:27

[Steve Bass]

had and am getting another 1190 (close enough tot he 1290 to be relevant) and had a 1200 and 1250 GS

Perforance wise, the KTM kills the GS. Some will bang on about the great torque of the GS but bottom line, the GS revs to 7500 and the KTM to 10900 and the KTM will leave the GS for dust.

Tech wise, they're very comparable. My major gripe with my 1250TE was the automatic suspension. It was terrible and just couldn't provide the necessary confidence and feedback.
The bikes have very comparablel tech suites. KTM is very smart but the BMW looks more 'polished'. Quickshifter on the BMW is crap, very clunky and rough. KTM is like butter.

Motors wise, the KTM is truly king of the hill. huge power everywhere and will happily carry revs whereas the BMW is grunty but runs out of steam quickly. Also, the shaft drive of the BMW can be a boon or a pain, depending on your standpoint. Pro's are it's lack of d2d maintenance but against it are the weight, the inability to tailor the final drive rations and cost/complexity if it goes wrong (and they do!!)
For the KTM chain, it needs adjustment, oiling and inspection but is lighter and adjustable and the act of adjustment is easy and quick and also means you get to inspect the bike more often and more closely than might happen with a shaft drive set up

After market support is great for both but the BMW, by virtue of it's age and popularity has no end of farkles and trinkets you can throw at it.

But for you, and this might be the big one, pillion accommodation is WAY better on the BMW. Seat is plusher, foot pegs are lower, it's just a far better place for the poor unfortunate soul on the back.
Both my KTM's have been bought from people who carry their wives as a pillion and they couldn't live with the 'ready to race' mindset of the KTM. The KTM is by far the better 'riders' bike but nowhere near as good at cossetting a pillion.

The one exception was the 1290 Super Adv T which had really plush (and heated) rider and pillion seats. if you can get something similar for the 1290 SAS you might be onto a winner but check the foot peg height, they're still quite high on the KTM making the pillion feel cramped.

As for values, the BMW's perceived quality brand results in strong residuals BUT only for bikes in the BMW warranty program. Costs for repairs to final drive, ESA suspension systems etc can be extortionate. KTM's are fairly bullet proof so despite the lack of perceived cache, are solid dependable and reliable bikes with no major issues. The electronic suspension can be pricey to fix but failures are very uncommon. All the cycle parts on the KTM are robust and well made.
As for riding experience, I found them to be chalk and cheese.

I love the dynamic, sporting nature of the KTM. My first 1190 spent 2years in East Africa, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Mozambique, Tanzania etc and was faultless.
The BMW's I had (Vietnam and South Africa) were great bikes by any measure but I found them utterly boring, dynamically flat and just 'stodgy" I sold my 1250TE with 3000kms as I just couldn't find a modicum of joy riding it....

Hope that helps...

[KTMsm]

I currently own a 1200 GS and an 1190 Adv

As you're going to test ride them you'll realise within 100m which bike you like

They really are that different IME

[MrGman]

KTMsm said:

I currently own a 1200 GS and an 1190 Adv

As you're going to test ride them you'll realise within 100m which bike you like

They really are that different IME

This, I love KTM’s, but I totally get why some people hate them so much.
For me I’d have the 1290 all day long!

[Hugo Stiglitz]

KTMsm said:

I currently own a 1200 GS and an 1190 Adv

As you're going to test ride them you'll realise within 100m which bike you like

They really are that different IME

When I've sold the vstrom please sell me the 1190.

One day I will own a GS, when I've calmed down.

[KTMsm]

Hugo Stiglitz said:

When I've sold the vstrom please sell me the 1190.

One day I will own a GS, when I've calmed down.

I might - I prefer my 990, I'm currently playing with different screens and seats but it just isn't as much fun

I don't ride the GS - it's hideous, I just can't find the enthusiasm to bother selling it

[snagzie]

Steve Bass said:

had and am getting another 1190 (close enough tot he 1290 to be relevant) and had a 1200 and 1250 GS

Perforance wise, the KTM kills the GS. Some will bang on about the great torque of the GS but bottom line, the GS revs to 7500 and the KTM to 10900 and the KTM will leave the GS for dust.

Tech wise, they're very comparable. My major gripe with my 1250TE was the automatic suspension. It was terrible and just couldn't provide the necessary confidence and feedback.
The bikes have very comparablel tech suites. KTM is very smart but the BMW looks more 'polished'. Quickshifter on the BMW is crap, very clunky and rough. KTM is like butter.

Motors wise, the KTM is truly king of the hill. huge power everywhere and will happily carry revs whereas the BMW is grunty but runs out of steam quickly. Also, the shaft drive of the BMW can be a boon or a pain, depending on your standpoint. Pro's are it's lack of d2d maintenance but against it are the weight, the inability to tailor the final drive rations and cost/complexity if it goes wrong (and they do!!)
For the KTM chain, it needs adjustment, oiling and inspection but is lighter and adjustable and the act of adjustment is easy and quick and also means you get to inspect the bike more often and more closely than might happen with a shaft drive set up

After market support is great for both but the BMW, by virtue of it's age and popularity has no end of farkles and trinkets you can throw at it.

But for you, and this might be the big one, pillion accommodation is WAY better on the BMW. Seat is plusher, foot pegs are lower, it's just a far better place for the poor unfortunate soul on the back.
Both my KTM's have been bought from people who carry their wives as a pillion and they couldn't live with the 'ready to race' mindset of the KTM. The KTM is by far the better 'riders' bike but nowhere near as good at cossetting a pillion.

The one exception was the 1290 Super Adv T which had really plush (and heated) rider and pillion seats. if you can get something similar for the 1290 SAS you might be onto a winner but check the foot peg height, they're still quite high on the KTM making the pillion feel cramped.

As for values, the BMW's perceived quality brand results in strong residuals BUT only for bikes in the BMW warranty program. Costs for repairs to final drive, ESA suspension systems etc can be extortionate. KTM's are fairly bullet proof so despite the lack of perceived cache, are solid dependable and reliable bikes with no major issues. The electronic suspension can be pricey to fix but failures are very uncommon. All the cycle parts on the KTM are robust and well made.
As for riding experience, I found them to be chalk and cheese.

I love the dynamic, sporting nature of the KTM. My first 1190 spent 2years in East Africa, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Mozambique, Tanzania etc and was faultless.
The BMW's I had (Vietnam and South Africa) were great bikes by any measure but I found them utterly boring, dynamically flat and just 'stodgy" I sold my 1250TE with 3000kms as I just couldn't find a modicum of joy riding it....

Hope that helps...

This is brilliant, thanks Steve! I nearly bought a used SDGT but there were some errors on it that they couldn't clear, which made me think twice about a 5 y/o and also about whats right for me at the moment.

Like you said, the pillion I expect will enjoy the GS much more but it's not all the time and my priority is getting the bike I want, with the pillion as a secondary as she'll be on it maybe less than 10% of the time. I've seen the other available optional seats for both me and pillion and they should be more than enough. TBH, I sat on the SAS today after riding my GSXS to the dealer (which had a bagster ready luxe seat on it) and immediately felt it needed a better seat off the bat.

Also thanks KTMsm - I think it will all be down to the test rides like you said.

[snagzie]

Tribal Chestnut said:

S1000XR? I’ve a 2018, but the latest version is a little glitzier and more refined.

My daughter’s 5’8” and happy as a pillion on the back.

Edit: as with other similar bikes, it helps being fairly tall.

Thanks, but had enough of buzzy IL4's. They're nice and creamy but just make me want to ride faster.

[Steve Bass]

snagzie said:

This is brilliant, thanks Steve! I nearly bought a used SDGT but there were some errors on it that they couldn't clear, which made me think twice about a 5 y/o and also about whats right for me at the moment.

Like you said, the pillion I expect will enjoy the GS much more but it's not all the time and my priority is getting the bike I want, with the pillion as a secondary as she'll be on it maybe less than 10% of the time. I've seen the other available optional seats for both me and pillion and they should be more than enough. TBH, I sat on the SAS today after riding my GSXS to the dealer (which had a bagster ready luxe seat on it) and immediately felt it needed a better seat off the bat.

Also thanks KTMsm - I think it will all be down to the test rides like you said.

Another option to a new seat, have a look at the Airhawk cushions. Might be a decent alternative.
I rode my 1190 from Johannesburg to Harare (1100kms) in one shot and I swear I hardly ever sat again after that.
I'm picking up another 1190 S this Friday (I love the bloody things ) and will definately look at a second seat or Airhawk .

Good luck

[AKjr]

snagzie said:

Tribal Chestnut said:

S1000XR? I’ve a 2018, but the latest version is a little glitzier and more refined.

My daughter’s 5’8” and happy as a pillion on the back.

Edit: as with other similar bikes, it helps being fairly tall.

Thanks, but had enough of buzzy IL4's. They're nice and creamy but just make me want to ride faster.

No bad thing

My current Yamaha triple does that to me, tbh - it's like an engine with two identities, above and below 5000rpm. I really like it, but it does lend itself to sillyness

[Niponeoff]

I rode the GS and liked it, the riding position felt great for long tours, is that's your thing.

Better than my SDGT, but I bet the SAS will be awesome with the grunt of the Duke and riding position of the GS.

Though, if I was going for an adventure road bike, i'd look at the Ducati multistrada V4S

[GriffoDP]

I can't speak to the SAS but I have had a 2020 1290GT for a year or so, after a year on a 1250GS. I love the 1290 engine, but having just done the BMW Off Road Skills weekend on a 1250GS, I do miss that again! As has been said, they're both great engines/bikes in different ways. I miss the low down grunt of the BMW, where my KTM just stares at me blankly if I try to use it below 3,000rpm. But I don't miss the clunky quickshifter. The KTM one is 99% of the time a delight through any gear.

I've yet to have passengers on the KTM but on the GS it was very easy and everyone liked it. My GT seat looks less accommodating.

Anyway, it's a good problem to have, and both will be more comfortable for a passenger than your current bike I'd hope! (I've ridden one for about 15 minutes) Have fun testing

EDIT: Oh yeah, you want to have fun! If the SAS is like the GT the suspension is setup much more towards fun. I found the BMW in road was way too soft and bouncy. Dynamic was just about ok - although maybe that's a memory because i had no choice to go firmer. The GT has... 3 I think settings, and the softest, comfort I think it's called, is probably firmer than Dynamic on the BMW. But in a good way! It then goes Street, Sport. And I am sadly still considering the 350 odd stupid pounds Track Pack so I can try Race firm suspension mode.

Edited by GriffoDP on Tuesday 30th May 22:04

[spareparts]

Steve Bass said:

had and am getting another 1190 (close enough tot he 1290 to be relevant) and had a 1200 and 1250 GS

Perforance wise, the KTM kills the GS. Some will bang on about the great torque of the GS but bottom line, the GS revs to 7500 and the KTM to 10900 and the KTM will leave the GS for dust.

Tech wise, they're very comparable. My major gripe with my 1250TE was the automatic suspension. It was terrible and just couldn't provide the necessary confidence and feedback.
The bikes have very comparablel tech suites. KTM is very smart but the BMW looks more 'polished'. Quickshifter on the BMW is crap, very clunky and rough. KTM is like butter.

Motors wise, the KTM is truly king of the hill. huge power everywhere and will happily carry revs whereas the BMW is grunty but runs out of steam quickly. Also, the shaft drive of the BMW can be a boon or a pain, depending on your standpoint. Pro's are it's lack of d2d maintenance but against it are the weight, the inability to tailor the final drive rations and cost/complexity if it goes wrong (and they do!!)
For the KTM chain, it needs adjustment, oiling and inspection but is lighter and adjustable and the act of adjustment is easy and quick and also means you get to inspect the bike more often and more closely than might happen with a shaft drive set up

After market support is great for both but the BMW, by virtue of it's age and popularity has no end of farkles and trinkets you can throw at it.

But for you, and this might be the big one, pillion accommodation is WAY better on the BMW. Seat is plusher, foot pegs are lower, it's just a far better place for the poor unfortunate soul on the back.
Both my KTM's have been bought from people who carry their wives as a pillion and they couldn't live with the 'ready to race' mindset of the KTM. The KTM is by far the better 'riders' bike but nowhere near as good at cossetting a pillion.

The one exception was the 1290 Super Adv T which had really plush (and heated) rider and pillion seats. if you can get something similar for the 1290 SAS you might be onto a winner but check the foot peg height, they're still quite high on the KTM making the pillion feel cramped.

As for values, the BMW's perceived quality brand results in strong residuals BUT only for bikes in the BMW warranty program. Costs for repairs to final drive, ESA suspension systems etc can be extortionate. KTM's are fairly bullet proof so despite the lack of perceived cache, are solid dependable and reliable bikes with no major issues. The electronic suspension can be pricey to fix but failures are very uncommon. All the cycle parts on the KTM are robust and well made.
As for riding experience, I found them to be chalk and cheese.

I love the dynamic, sporting nature of the KTM. My first 1190 spent 2years in East Africa, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Mozambique, Tanzania etc and was faultless.
The BMW's I had (Vietnam and South Africa) were great bikes by any measure but I found them utterly boring, dynamically flat and just 'stodgy" I sold my 1250TE with 3000kms as I just couldn't find a modicum of joy riding it....

Hope that helps...

I will offer a totally opposite view to Steve having had 2 x 1200GS and 2 x 1250GS. Before I bought the 4th GS, I really wanted to give the 1290SAS a good try. Gave one a try with the expectation of being blown away by the power/engine and the 'Ready to Race' thrills, and with the intention of buying as I was coming out of a non-adv bike at the time.

I'll keep it short: the GS offers more low down punch than the SAS upto around 7k rpm. It punches hard enough to wheelie off the throttle, and such like. But it does start to run out of power as you wind it up to 8k rpm and beyond in comparison to the SAS. But you must ask yourself: do you ride above 8k rpm often? If yes, and like to ride ride like Chris Birch does on open sand/off-road terrain, then you will enjoy the SAS. If you don't, I can pretty much guarantee that the GS offers more acceleration at anything up to 100mph - and it certainly feels that way.

The GS has better dynamic balance than the SAS at slower speeds as a boxer twin. I felt the KTM has a lot of electronics intervening on the KTM's suspension to the point that it felt quite unnatural and did not give me confidence to push hard. The BMW's is also electronically adjusted, but it felt more natural to me.

The GS smothers broken roads better because of Telelever, and the Paralever allows you to get on the throttle a lot earlier than the KTM coming out of corners.

The SAS had a fancy TFT screen, but the controls were a bit Fisher Price in comparison. The KTM build quality feels poor in comparison, but that is because it retains its offroad heritage of plastics. The KTM is a bike that looks like it can be worked on in your garage, but the BMW feels like it should be brought into the dealer for servicing. In terms of the dealer network, there is simply no comparison. KTM is as sparse as BMW is brilliant - not just in the UK, but all across Europe. If you intend to tour around Europe, there is no better than BMW.

So there you go - I don't ride slowly on the GS, and I think the capabilities of both bikes are generally beyond the average rider. It will come down to the rider to get the best out of either bike. I think the GS offers loads of fun if you choose to ride it so, but it is incredibly polished overall. From an ownership pov, the BMW is slick and refined and it offers a good experience through the network and if you want to put the big miles on a bike. The KTM, I am unsure. KTM reliability is not good, but you won’t hear so much on this as there are just fewer of them. The KTM advantage of engine/power is not obvious to me at all because of the way the BMW deploys its own. YMMV.

Edited by spareparts on Wednesday 31st May 00:39

[Steve Bass]

Here's a fair review that pretty much agrees with the comments thus far..

https://www.google.com/search?q=gs1250+vs+ktm+1290...

At the end of the day, only you can decide which of these tickles your fancy..... nice problem to have though, enjoy

[Niponeoff]

Why is everyone talking about the KTM as if it has some kind of superbike screaming top end. It's a thumping V Twin with pistons like dinner plates, it doesn't rev hard, it's all low down gut wrenching torque which it delivers in spades.

[RizzoTheRat]

snagzie said:

Thanks, but had enough of buzzy IL4's. They're nice and creamy but just make me want to ride faster.

Maybe also consider the Tiger as somewhere in between?

Niponeoff said:

Why is everyone talking about the KTM as if it has some kind of superbike screaming top end. It's a thumping V Twin with pistons like dinner plates, it doesn't rev hard, it's all low down gut wrenching torque which it delivers in spades.

Because it is in comparison to the BMW Boxer.

[anonymous-user]

Steve Bass said:

had and am getting another 1190 (close enough tot he 1290 to be relevant) and had a 1200 and 1250 GS

Perforance wise, the KTM kills the GS. Some will bang on about the great torque of the GS but bottom line, the GS revs to 7500 and the KTM to 10900 and the KTM will leave the GS for dust.

Tech wise, they're very comparable. My major gripe with my 1250TE was the automatic suspension. It was terrible and just couldn't provide the necessary confidence and feedback.
The bikes have very comparablel tech suites. KTM is very smart but the BMW looks more 'polished'. Quickshifter on the BMW is crap, very clunky and rough. KTM is like butter.

Motors wise, the KTM is truly king of the hill. huge power everywhere and will happily carry revs whereas the BMW is grunty but runs out of steam quickly. Also, the shaft drive of the BMW can be a boon or a pain, depending on your standpoint. Pro's are it's lack of d2d maintenance but against it are the weight, the inability to tailor the final drive rations and cost/complexity if it goes wrong (and they do!!)
For the KTM chain, it needs adjustment, oiling and inspection but is lighter and adjustable and the act of adjustment is easy and quick and also means you get to inspect the bike more often and more closely than might happen with a shaft drive set up

After market support is great for both but the BMW, by virtue of it's age and popularity has no end of farkles and trinkets you can throw at it.

But for you, and this might be the big one, pillion accommodation is WAY better on the BMW. Seat is plusher, foot pegs are lower, it's just a far better place for the poor unfortunate soul on the back.
Both my KTM's have been bought from people who carry their wives as a pillion and they couldn't live with the 'ready to race' mindset of the KTM. The KTM is by far the better 'riders' bike but nowhere near as good at cossetting a pillion.

The one exception was the 1290 Super Adv T which had really plush (and heated) rider and pillion seats. if you can get something similar for the 1290 SAS you might be onto a winner but check the foot peg height, they're still quite high on the KTM making the pillion feel cramped.

As for values, the BMW's perceived quality brand results in strong residuals BUT only for bikes in the BMW warranty program. Costs for repairs to final drive, ESA suspension systems etc can be extortionate. KTM's are fairly bullet proof so despite the lack of perceived cache, are solid dependable and reliable bikes with no major issues. The electronic suspension can be pricey to fix but failures are very uncommon. All the cycle parts on the KTM are robust and well made.
As for riding experience, I found them to be chalk and cheese.

I love the dynamic, sporting nature of the KTM. My first 1190 spent 2years in East Africa, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Malawi, Mozambique, Tanzania etc and was faultless.
The BMW's I had (Vietnam and South Africa) were great bikes by any measure but I found them utterly boring, dynamically flat and just 'stodgy" I sold my 1250TE with 3000kms as I just couldn't find a modicum of joy riding it....

Hope that helps...

Bang on.

And any comparison test shows the same especially about the performance. But the residuals are a lot better for the GS - so I'd only really look at the GS in the new/nearly new category, and the KTM for the 3+ years is just bargain basement.

[Niponeoff]

RizzoTheRat said:

snagzie said:

Thanks, but had enough of buzzy IL4's. They're nice and creamy but just make me want to ride faster.

Maybe also consider the Tiger as somewhere in between?

Niponeoff said:

Why is everyone talking about the KTM as if it has some kind of superbike screaming top end. It's a thumping V Twin with pistons like dinner plates, it doesn't rev hard, it's all low down gut wrenching torque which it delivers in spades.

Because it is in comparison to the BMW Boxer.

Aye, but the KTM is also built for low down torque, don't expect any top end to wring out.

I chased after a sports car and had to keep short shifting to stop from going into him, then struggled to get past because I had nothing left up top! That's where it suffers in outright performance.