Discussion
Couldn’t see a thread on it so here we are.
Bautista’s dominance this season could make it boring but fair play as he and the Ducati are a mega combo.
From the bits I have read regarding RPM limits, the Kawi still has significantly less RPM than the Ducati:
Ducati - 16,100
Honda - 15,600
BMW - 15,500
Yamaha - 14,950
Kawasaki - 14,600
Seems like there should be some levelling up to help make it interesting.
Thoughts from those in the know?
Bautista’s dominance this season could make it boring but fair play as he and the Ducati are a mega combo.
From the bits I have read regarding RPM limits, the Kawi still has significantly less RPM than the Ducati:
Ducati - 16,100
Honda - 15,600
BMW - 15,500
Yamaha - 14,950
Kawasaki - 14,600
Seems like there should be some levelling up to help make it interesting.
Thoughts from those in the know?
rodericb said:
Yeah I dunno - I think it's the rider. Bautista is in the right place at the right time in terms of team, bike and mind. Otherwise you'd see more Ducatis on the podium......
Not so sure, WSBK is very much a three person Championship and has been for a couple of years now, although, a bit of levelling up on the revs front wouldn't do any harm. Although, I think that Ducati appears quite easy on the tyres in Bautista's hands, compared to the Yamaha & Kawasaki. Spevs said:
rodericb said:
Yeah I dunno - I think it's the rider. Bautista is in the right place at the right time in terms of team, bike and mind. Otherwise you'd see more Ducatis on the podium......
Not so sure, WSBK is very much a three person Championship and has been for a couple of years now, although, a bit of levelling up on the revs front wouldn't do any harm. Although, I think that Ducati appears quite easy on the tyres in Bautista's hands, compared to the Yamaha & Kawasaki. Unless they've now brought in bike+rider weight limits, and I have completely missed this?!
No Smarty packed in end of last season for reasons unknown maybe he thought it was about time that rocketship was slowed down and was told no, lol!
it is a shame, the series was on a huge high, and has now become a Spanish national series, as is everything owned by Dorna.
So much so that rubbish like Oettl, Syarihn get full time rides and Brad gets Euro only. says it all I am sorry to say, they favour GP riders above all else, look at Supersport it is a Moto2 backwater.
it is a shame, the series was on a huge high, and has now become a Spanish national series, as is everything owned by Dorna.
So much so that rubbish like Oettl, Syarihn get full time rides and Brad gets Euro only. says it all I am sorry to say, they favour GP riders above all else, look at Supersport it is a Moto2 backwater.
I must admit I see the "levelling up" rules as a complete joke now. If you have a set of mechanical rules then Ducati building a rocket ship is up to them and others can change what they build to compete (like it used to be, for example when Honda built the SP1/2 to take on Ducati). However, if there are levelling up rules, then things should be kept level by definitiion and they clearly aren't. So they aren't levelling up rules, they're unlevelling rules. Kawasaki obviously won it enough times and now it's Ducatis turn (Yamaha got lucky and stuck their nose in the pesky blighters!!). I think when Jonathan Rea won he was by far the best rider and Kawasaki was the best bike. Now there's three riders at the top of their game, but only one's winning.....levelled up?
Spevs said:
rodericb said:
Yeah I dunno - I think it's the rider. Bautista is in the right place at the right time in terms of team, bike and mind. Otherwise you'd see more Ducatis on the podium......
Not so sure, WSBK is very much a three person Championship and has been for a couple of years now, although, a bit of levelling up on the revs front wouldn't do any harm. Although, I think that Ducati appears quite easy on the tyres in Bautista's hands, compared to the Yamaha & Kawasaki. LukeBrown66 said:
No Smarty packed in end of last season for reasons unknown maybe he thought it was about time that rocketship was slowed down and was told no, lol!
it is a shame, the series was on a huge high, and has now become a Spanish national series, as is everything owned by Dorna.
So much so that rubbish like Oettl, Syarihn get full time rides and Brad gets Euro only. says it all I am sorry to say, they favour GP riders above all else, look at Supersport it is a Moto2 backwater.
That argument is flawed though because between 2013 and 2021 WSBK was the Kawasaki Sykes/Rea championship and nobody else got a look in, even Bautista on the Ducati was overcome.it is a shame, the series was on a huge high, and has now become a Spanish national series, as is everything owned by Dorna.
So much so that rubbish like Oettl, Syarihn get full time rides and Brad gets Euro only. says it all I am sorry to say, they favour GP riders above all else, look at Supersport it is a Moto2 backwater.
LukeBrown66 said:
No Smarty packed in end of last season for reasons unknown maybe he thought it was about time that rocketship was slowed down and was told no, lol!
it is a shame, the series was on a huge high, and has now become a Spanish national series, as is everything owned by Dorna.
So much so that rubbish like Oettl, Syarihn get full time rides and Brad gets Euro only. says it all I am sorry to say, they favour GP riders above all else, look at Supersport it is a Moto2 backwater.
There's one Spanish rider doing well and couple of down through the pack so therefore it's a Spanish series?it is a shame, the series was on a huge high, and has now become a Spanish national series, as is everything owned by Dorna.
So much so that rubbish like Oettl, Syarihn get full time rides and Brad gets Euro only. says it all I am sorry to say, they favour GP riders above all else, look at Supersport it is a Moto2 backwater.
Yamaha's riders are Turkish, Italian, Swiss and Australian, but nah it's definitely the Spanish holding back Ray.
My point was not really that he is being held back, more that GP riders seem to get contracts that are better, we do not know if Ray is going to be good enough to ride at this level, yet people like oettl, Syarihn, Petrucci and loads of others in both classes walk into long term deals with manufacturers.
Look at Tazz Mackenzie, proven winner in BSB gets a deal on a bike that is not even made anymore in a class he has not ridden in for years.
I am not decrying either for what they are doing what I am saying is that Dorna clearly prioritize GP riders over ANYONE else. I can see the point, but it is not always working.
Look at Tazz Mackenzie, proven winner in BSB gets a deal on a bike that is not even made anymore in a class he has not ridden in for years.
I am not decrying either for what they are doing what I am saying is that Dorna clearly prioritize GP riders over ANYONE else. I can see the point, but it is not always working.
LukeBrown66 said:
My point was not really that he is being held back, more that GP riders seem to get contracts that are better, we do not know if Ray is going to be good enough to ride at this level, yet people like oettl, Syarihn, Petrucci and loads of others in both classes walk into long term deals with manufacturers.
Look at Tazz Mackenzie, proven winner in BSB gets a deal on a bike that is not even made anymore in a class he has not ridden in for years.
I am not decrying either for what they are doing what I am saying is that Dorna clearly prioritize GP riders over ANYONE else. I can see the point, but it is not always working.
Syahrin got his ride because he brings the Petronas cash and is in a satellite team, Petrucci is a MotoGP race winner and has been competitive on a Panigale as well as being a bit of a favoured son of Ducati and is in a satellite team, and Oettl was a front runner in both his WSSP seasons and is in a satellite team. Also, all of them have long-term world championship experience vs two riders who have spent the majority/all of their careers in domestic championships.Look at Tazz Mackenzie, proven winner in BSB gets a deal on a bike that is not even made anymore in a class he has not ridden in for years.
I am not decrying either for what they are doing what I am saying is that Dorna clearly prioritize GP riders over ANYONE else. I can see the point, but it is not always working.
Finally, if Dorna had anything to do with those three getting their rides it's going to be because they want riders from as many countries as possible (Syahrin and Oettl) or are going to be big drawcards (Petrucci). There's already three big name British riders on full-time factory rides, what reason has Dorna got to help place Mackenzie or Ray on the grid?
I dont think they give a damn about helping British riders, in their eyes, this is Spain now! AS it has been in MotoGP for years, they own ALL the feeder series.
They will have certain countries represented because it helps them secure venues and tv rights, but at the moment you have to admit there are a plethora of fairly average ex GP riders plying their trade in SBK.
This is not all bad, as they are obviously very good riders, but i do believe there is a new era of "looking after" GP riders who do not want to stop and getting them rides in the SBK paddock, and I do believe this precludes some countries and nations better riders from getting rides in the SBK paddock, that is my point.
They will have certain countries represented because it helps them secure venues and tv rights, but at the moment you have to admit there are a plethora of fairly average ex GP riders plying their trade in SBK.
This is not all bad, as they are obviously very good riders, but i do believe there is a new era of "looking after" GP riders who do not want to stop and getting them rides in the SBK paddock, and I do believe this precludes some countries and nations better riders from getting rides in the SBK paddock, that is my point.
LukeBrown66 said:
OK if you dont think so, tell me why certain riders seem tog et rides over any decent national level SBK riders as used to happen?
Those "washed up GP riders" you dismiss:- Have world championship experience
- Know the tracks
- Are used to dealing with bikes that have far more chassis and electronic adjustability than domestic Superbikes
- Will bring in far more sponsorship dollars (especially the Spanish riders)
- Are known quantities
- Have been racing in one or both of what are recognised as the closest, most competitive, cutthroat series' on the planet. Being a second off the pace can still have you in the top 6 in most domestic series whereas that you would be struggling to stay in the points in Moto3 and Moto2.
LukeBrown66 said:
OK if you dont think so, tell me why certain riders seem tog et rides over any decent national level SBK riders as used to happen?
I also think the lack of Stock1000 does not help, it makes it easier for teasm to just pick ex GP talent.
Maybe they are just better riders than national SBK riders.I also think the lack of Stock1000 does not help, it makes it easier for teasm to just pick ex GP talent.
Who are these "washed up GP riders"?
Not Alvaro: he chose a factory SBK ride over a satellite GP ride. Don't forget: when he jumped on Lorenzo's bike he instantly impressed. Racing is always a lot about the equipment underneath you, and the team behind you.
Ditto Redding, I was so impressed with how he dusted himself off, nailed BSB, and fought for that factory SBK ride his talent deserves.
Aegerter has been a late bloomer; Remy & Iker deserved a better crack at GP, and Petrux has earned the chance to be there.
If riders from the GP paddock see better opportunties in the SBK paddock then why shouldn't they switch? If teams see great riders in the GP paddock struggling to get race winning rides, why shouldn't they recruit from there?
Not Alvaro: he chose a factory SBK ride over a satellite GP ride. Don't forget: when he jumped on Lorenzo's bike he instantly impressed. Racing is always a lot about the equipment underneath you, and the team behind you.
Ditto Redding, I was so impressed with how he dusted himself off, nailed BSB, and fought for that factory SBK ride his talent deserves.
Aegerter has been a late bloomer; Remy & Iker deserved a better crack at GP, and Petrux has earned the chance to be there.
If riders from the GP paddock see better opportunties in the SBK paddock then why shouldn't they switch? If teams see great riders in the GP paddock struggling to get race winning rides, why shouldn't they recruit from there?
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