Buying a Catagoy N write-off - any stigma or reservations?

[Sporall]

I've found one or two bikes I may be interested and one of them is a Cat N, this is cosmetic damage/steering locks.
How do people generally feel about these? Some of these are quite heavily discounted.

The only reservation I have is being stuck with something that's difficault to sell at some point in the future.

Anyone have firsthand experience of this?

[littleredrooster]

I’ve had several ‘Cat’ vehicles over the years, never had any problems. Buy at the right price (usually about -30%) and sell at the right price - someone is always interested.

[spoodler]

Personally, I don't have a problem with a Cat D/N or similar. I'd rather have a properly repaired bike than some of the criminally badly modified examples that some folk value... That said, I have a 900 Legend that I'd like to sell. I believe it was a Cat D about fifteen years back, a dealer dropped his part ex' offer from £3000 to £600 on the strength of that fact. He advised me to sell private as "he and many dealers wouldn't touch a Cat D/N bike" due to possible repercussions.
I'd still buy another, but at the right price.

[OutInTheShed]

Firstly, if you ever want to sell it, a lot of people will avoid.
Secondly, the repaired paint, panels whatever may not age terribly well, so it might look tatty in 2 or 3 years
Thirdly, if it gets damaged, then your insurance co, or the insurance co of the person who knocked it over won't be falling over themselves to pay a lot for repairs.
Fourthly, if it's been stolen/recovered, then suspect it's been ragged senseless from cold, had the gears crunched, wheels kerbed etc etc.

So unless it was a cheap hack to commute on or the basis for something I was going to modify, I'd not be keen, unless the price was irresistible.

[KTMsm]

I've bought and sold several Cat N (D) bikes

I discount them by £500ish and they sell
(I generally sell bikes around £5k - it would be more on an expensive bike)

It only takes a stationary drop to write off a £5k bike these days

I've got one currently - minor scuffs to bar end, footpeg, seat, exhaust and a tiny scratch on the tank - unnoticeable in use and I won't be repairing it

However I suggest you check everything carefully - lock stops etc can be easy to break, easy to miss but fail the MOT etc I'm wary of faired bikes as it's impossible to check them without removing the fairings

Edited by KTMsm on Wednesday 12th April 19:55

[snagzie]

It may make a difference to insuring it. By default insurers assume (in the small print) that a bike being insured is not written off (at any level) so you'd have to declare it.

Might not make any difference at all to the quote, but as mentioned above it could well make a difference to a claim

[craigjm]

A lot of people just avoid them so you won’t find it as easy to sell and it would have to be cheap. Bear in mind though that if you had the equivalent of a category requirement accident or incident before 2000 then nobody would have known. It’s likely people who turn their noses up now probably had at least one car that would have been a category before it became a thing. They just wouldn’t have known.

[KTMsm]

craigjm said:

A lot of people just avoid them so you won’t find it as easy to sell and it would have to be cheap. Bear in mind though that if you had the equivalent of a category requirement accident or incident before 2000 then nobody would have known. It’s likely people who turn their noses up now probably had at least one car that would have been a category before it became a thing. They just wouldn’t have known.

Did it only come in in 2000 ?

I've HPi'd cars / bikes for 35 years - I'm not certain when insurance write offs were notified but I thought it was way before 2000

[OutInTheShed]

craigjm said:

A lot of people just avoid them so you won’t find it as easy to sell and it would have to be cheap. Bear in mind though that if you had the equivalent of a category requirement accident or incident before 2000 then nobody would have known. It’s likely people who turn their noses up now probably had at least one car that would have been a category before it became a thing. They just wouldn’t have known.

For sure, I've had a couple of those cars, but cheap enough...

You can of course have many of the same issues with a vehicle that's had an unreported 'incident' and undocumented repairs.

[DirtyHarley]

With bikes it works out something along the lines of the below:

Pros:
+ They can be picked up cheap even once repaired - approx 70% of the market value of a similar non 'Cat' example if not even cheaper.
+ If they have been repaired they are normally done so to a decent running condition (at least in my experience)
+ If buying unrepaired, at auction for example, then they are a good basis for a project or restoration if thats your type of thing.
+ A good way to get a 'better' bike for less money and there are genuinely some nice bikes available as 'cat' bikes since insurance generally writes most modern bikes off even after walking pace drop.

Negatives:
- Resale values are always going to be a lot lower than market values
- Almost every dealership will not touch it and lots of indies won't either so will have to be sold privately when the time comes
- Insurance will generally scrap it if there is a 2nd claim on it in future and will be harder to get a decent payment out of them (try to insure by agreed value to limit the latter issue)
- Hidden damage on hastily repaired bikes, particularly things that are hidden by fairings etc.
- Lots of people will avoid buying a 'cat' bike for the above reasons so it may take time to shift when the time comes.

Personally I've bought 'cat' bikes as projects and then sold them on afterwards since they were bought for the sole reasons of being a hobby or learning a new skill. I'd happily own one to ride and have contemplated using one as a winter commuter; but I'd expect to pick it up dirt cheap, and would give it a good go-over to fix any possible issues before taking it out for a decent ride just for my own peace of mind.

[craigjm]

OutInTheShed said:

craigjm said:

A lot of people just avoid them so you won’t find it as easy to sell and it would have to be cheap. Bear in mind though that if you had the equivalent of a category requirement accident or incident before 2000 then nobody would have known. It’s likely people who turn their noses up now probably had at least one car that would have been a category before it became a thing. They just wouldn’t have known.

For sure, I've had a couple of those cars, but cheap enough...

You can of course have many of the same issues with a vehicle that's had an unreported 'incident' and undocumented repairs.

Absolutely. I threw a Porsche into a field at speed many years ago and had 28k of repairs done to it but because it didn’t reach the value threshold for a category marker the next owner was none the wiser

[kiethton]

Until the current bike i'd only ever owned cat D/N motorbikes.

I've bought them from the salvage yards and other than fixing indicators/bar ends I've not fixed them.

To the same token I've never paid more than £1,200, I've never washed them, I've never serviced them and I've sold them as spares or repairs for £700-1000 when they stopped running.

I also had one (my first) written off - bought at 9 months old with 3k miles for £1,200 - didn't need fixing (cosmetics). Ran it for 3 years/15k miles until it was written off again...I got paid out £1,900...bought it back for £300 and sold it immediately, un-repaired for £950 (bent forks and more scuffs)

My point being, if I was buying a bike I ever wanted to sell on, I'd not be buying a Cat bike, however I run them until they break so don't care.

[Biker9090]

People become bloody hysterical over them.

Fact is that - for a faired bike especially- more than a few years old a simple drop will make it CAT D if you go through insurance.

I had a CAT D car and had zero issues.

[Krikkit]

Like everything they can get a bad rep from bad examples, and can be very contextual.

e.g. new Panigale that's a cat.D will be a lot more than a couple of tank scratches and bar ends, but a 10 year old bike then of course.

People can also inherit the prejudice from cars - a badly repaired one can be a real baptism of fire and apply the same logic to a bike which is mostly just cosmetic panels over a very rugged frame.

[srob]

KTMsm said:

craigjm said:

A lot of people just avoid them so you won’t find it as easy to sell and it would have to be cheap. Bear in mind though that if you had the equivalent of a category requirement accident or incident before 2000 then nobody would have known. It’s likely people who turn their noses up now probably had at least one car that would have been a category before it became a thing. They just wouldn’t have known.

Did it only come in in 2000 ?

I've HPi'd cars / bikes for 35 years - I'm not certain when insurance write offs were notified but I thought it was way before 2000

I think it was before 2000 too.

I had a Cat something Aprilia RS250 in the late 90s I think, although may have been in 2000 but I don't remember it being a 'new' thing when I bought it. It was a 1997 bike that had been dropped and the bar end had dented the frame.

From memory I paid about 1800 quid for it when it was only a couple of years old!

[ccr32]

Adding to all the comments above, how many bikes are out there that have been dropped/thrown into the kitty litter that are not reported to insurance and therefore written off? Plenty i'd imagine.

So standard rules apply when it comes to the bike itself - inspect carefully and throughly, and buy based on condition, regardless of 'cat' status. Then consider the other implications of buying a written off bike, such as insurance, resale value/ability, etc., as already mentioned.

[limmy01]

DirtyHarley said:

With bikes it works out something along the lines of the below:

Pros:
+ They can be picked up cheap even once repaired - approx 70% of the market value of a similar non 'Cat' example if not even cheaper.
+ If they have been repaired they are normally done so to a decent running condition (at least in my experience)
+ If buying unrepaired, at auction for example, then they are a good basis for a project or restoration if thats your type of thing.
+ A good way to get a 'better' bike for less money and there are genuinely some nice bikes available as 'cat' bikes since insurance generally writes most modern bikes off even after walking pace drop.

Negatives:
- Resale values are always going to be a lot lower than market values
- Almost every dealership will not touch it and lots of indies won't either so will have to be sold privately when the time comes
- Insurance will generally scrap it if there is a 2nd claim on it in future and will be harder to get a decent payment out of them (try to insure by agreed value to limit the latter issue)
- Hidden damage on hastily repaired bikes, particularly things that are hidden by fairings etc.
- Lots of people will avoid buying a 'cat' bike for the above reasons so it may take time to shift when the time comes.

Personally I've bought 'cat' bikes as projects and then sold them on afterwards since they were bought for the sole reasons of being a hobby or learning a new skill. I'd happily own one to ride and have contemplated using one as a winter commuter; but I'd expect to pick it up dirt cheap, and would give it a good go-over to fix any possible issues before taking it out for a decent ride just for my own peace of mind.

Great bit or information and something to think about, I have been pondering a cat project for sometime but still haven't got round to it. Where do you mostly get them from?