What's a decent 125?

[conkerman]

Mrs C has just passed her CBT (she crashed the day before her test in 2003 and broke her wrist so has been somewhat reticent to ride again).

She wants a 125, I know bugger all about them, but the svartpilen looks cool..

Not averse to buying new, £3500 max. Would like ABS in case of panic braking. I'll be taking her out to help build confidence so a bit of local leisure riding and an occasional short commute.

Looked at a new z125 and tuono125 and the prices were mental.

Suggestions welcome.

[Krikkit]

What does your Mrs want? Tbh they're much of a muchness, all designed with engines that hit the power limit exactly, all have ABS or linked brakes now.

Duke 125 and MT125 are both nice and quite garish.

[hyper jay]

Honda Monkey or the new Dax 125 are a lot fun and easy to ride with low seat height .super cheap to run also

[PT1984]

Ta-da!



CB125R and TBH it’s brilliant. I have my theory in a fortnight and will start DAS after that. I will be getting a big bike after. This has served me well getting experience. It handles extremely well and considering I’m 16 stone, is rather nippy.

Went out for a 30 minute ride earlier after giving it a service. Was out for 3 hours.

[ambuletz]

Any of the big names will do, honda, yamaha, suzuki. It's for your Mrs, so who knows what her height is. At the end of the day a good one is one she's comfy riding.

I think you missed out on this years MCN bike show, idk if there are others upcoming but those would be a perfect opportunity to sit on brand new bikes to see which she will like (without going to a dealer)

[Tribal Chestnut]

PT1984 said:

Ta-da!



CB125R and TBH it’s brilliant. I have my theory in a fortnight and will start DAS after that. I will be getting a big bike after. This has served me well getting experience. It handles extremely well and considering I’m 16 stone, is rather nippy.

Went out for a 30 minute ride earlier after giving it a service. Was out for 3 hours.

A work mate had one of these. Great little bikes.

[conkerman]

Thanks for the replies. Mrs Cis 5ft 8 and bhas reasonably long legs, so isn't too sensitive to seat height. (I have much shorter legs.)

Got a few days off so want to get to the localish dealers over the next couple of days.

Those honas are a good looking bike for a 125. It's on the wifes shortlist with the svartpilen and tuono.

Want to get this sorted while the enthusiasm wanes and wanting to use money for other stuff starts.

[PT1984]

The XSR 125 is meant to be a hoot too, and looks great. You want ultimate reliability so not to put her off. Most will say go straight to DAS. But I have found the experience invaluable. Just watch out for ar$e hole drivers who will go out their way to intimidate thinking it’s a 16 year old rider. I seem to get this all the time at 30 in a 30.

[Normodog]

Can get a svartpilen brand new for £3699. I'd probably go for that or a used Honda cb125r.

[MDUBZ]

Congrats on the cbt pass for the missus; It sounds like she needs to build confidence and road craft. I’d be tempted to speak to your local riding school to see if they can recommend someone with the right approach for her and sink some funds into some 121 coaching before putting down some cash on a new bike. It probably says more about my relationship than yours but having a independent third party in the teaching role, identifying mistakes, advising on areas for improvement and detailing better technique would be far less stressful all round, just until she builds up that confidence and you can enjoy a ride out together (also gives her someone else to blame if a session doesn’t go well (you’re welcome)

If you go down that route.. spend time getting the right instructor: When I was on my DAS I watched one in the girls in the groups confidence get destroyed. The training staff didn’t adapt to her needs at all; in short we used 3 different coaches over the 6 sessions, 1 was excellent with her but I think the other 2 may have compounded the issue and it slowed her rate of progression; I spent a lot of time picking her and the bike up off of the floor in the end.

Re the bike - go shopping and have her sit on a few and see which one she feels most comfortable on. It’s difficult to recommend good fit for body type without pics They are all going to be much of a muchness on performance, seat height and how the bike carries its weight will differ. How she feels on/ about the bike is going to be the most important factor if you want her to enjoy biking, and don’t forget kit they all love updating the wardrobe ( also adds to comfort and confidence on the bike).

Edited by MDUBZ on Wednesday 5th April 08:56

[HybridTheory]

Anything from 🇯🇵

[OverSteery]

Krikkit said:

What does your Mrs want? Tbh they're much of a muchness, all designed with engines that hit the power limit exactly, all have ABS or linked brakes now.

Duke 125 and MT125 are both nice and quite garish.

Yes, new 125 will have ABS or linked brakes. If you think this is much the same then step away from the bike now. I am mildly perplexed by the legislation for linked brakes - if anything it seems to make lock-up in an emergency more likely than normal.

The commuter bikes usually make 10bhp whereas the expensive range topper are getting to 15.
(Honda CB125F is 8kw with linked brakes, the CB125R is 11kw with ABS)

The build quality of the newer market entrants from China is generally inferior. A second hand Honda will be cheaper in the long run (probably even a new one will end up cheaper, as they loose little value if not abused)

MDUBZ makes good points regarding training.

Edited by OverSteery on Wednesday 5th April 09:47

[RizzoTheRat]

Depends how long she wants to keep it.

125's hold thier value well and are surprisingly expensive compared to bigger bikes. If it's just for a few months to get her confidence up there's a lot to be said for a boring commuter like a CG or a YBR, they're as reliable as a brick and you won't lose much on it when she upgrades to a bigger bike.

On the other hand if she wants to ride it for a fair while, the Varadero is a good option, it's a V twin where a lot of 125's are singles, so feels a bit more powerful than many, and it's a bit bigger than a lot of 125's which she may well find more comfortable.

My Mrs started on a Chinese clone of a CG125, which was ideal as it cost next to nothing, and was easy to fix as Japanese CG parts fitted it. However it needed a fair bit of fixing. The shocks needed replacing for it's first MOT, throttle cable snapped, and a couple of other issues due to many components being made of cheese, so I wouldn't recommend unless you want cheap and are happy doing the maintenance. She then upgraded to a 600 Diversion which was cheap, reliable and in many ways easier to ride than the 125 due to having more power.

[PeeMac]

conkerman said:

Mrs C has just passed her CBT (she crashed the day before her test in 2003 and broke her wrist so has been somewhat reticent to ride again).

She wants a 125, I know bugger all about them, but the svartpilen looks cool..

Not averse to buying new, £3500 max. Would like ABS in case of panic braking. I'll be taking her out to help build confidence so a bit of local leisure riding and an occasional short commute.

Looked at a new z125 and tuono125 and the prices were mental.

Suggestions welcome.

Mrs Mac bought herself a KTM Duke 125 when she passed her CBT. She wanted something that didn't look too much like a learner bike. We did the same with local rides to build confidence.

She's currently doing her direct access, so the KTM will be looking for a new home soon, it's not got much more than 600 miles on, fully serviced etc. We're in Leamington Spa if you're nearby and would like to take a look? Drop me a DM if you'd like to know some more.

[Krikkit]

OverSteery said:

Krikkit said:

What does your Mrs want? Tbh they're much of a muchness, all designed with engines that hit the power limit exactly, all have ABS or linked brakes now.

Duke 125 and MT125 are both nice and quite garish.

Yes, new 125 will have ABS or linked brakes. If you think this is much the same then step away from the bike now. I am mildly perplexed by the legislation for linked brakes - if anything it seems to make lock-up in an emergency more likely than normal.

I haven't actually used linked brakes myself, but your opinion flies in the face of all the OEMs who fit them and the EU who legislated them - given how many novices you see locking the rear brake (or not using it at all) in an emergency it seems, from an outside perspective, like a good idea. Don't forget that rear locking is less likely on a 125 thanks to miniscule engine braking compared to a bigger bike.

Given people like Honda fit linked brakes even to massive beasts like the Goldwing there must be something to it.

[OverSteery]

Krikkit said:

OverSteery said:

Krikkit said:

What does your Mrs want? Tbh they're much of a muchness, all designed with engines that hit the power limit exactly, all have ABS or linked brakes now.

Duke 125 and MT125 are both nice and quite garish.

Yes, new 125 will have ABS or linked brakes. If you think this is much the same then step away from the bike now. I am mildly perplexed by the legislation for linked brakes - if anything it seems to make lock-up in an emergency more likely than normal.

I haven't actually used linked brakes myself, but your opinion flies in the face of all the OEMs who fit them and the EU who legislated them - given how many novices you see locking the rear brake (or not using it at all) in an emergency it seems, from an outside perspective, like a good idea. Don't forget that rear locking is less likely on a 125 thanks to miniscule engine braking compared to a bigger bike.

Given people like Honda fit linked brakes even to massive beasts like the Goldwing there must be something to it.

I agree there must be evidence - my opinion does indeed contradict and I may be wrong, but it's based on a fair amount of experience.

The Goldwing has ABS, so lockup aren't a concern. BWM also link brakes, although interestingly Honda link the front brake to the back lever, whereas BMW do the reverse.....

I watch anything up to 50+ emergency stops by novices a week while teaching CBTs. It can be the front that locks, as they load up the front brake and then add the rear (which adds to the front and causes the lockup). Particularly common on scooters.

If they don't use the rear brake then the linked brake won't make any difference - it the rear brake that can add to the front (not the reverse) - well that's true for Honda (I'm not sure about the other manufacturers).

As I said I don't understand why it's a good idea. The only time it really helps is should the rider only use the back brake and not the front. They should never get a CBT if they haven't learnt to use both brakes. Conversely, if they learn on a 125 not to bother and the system protects them, it'll be a nasty surprise with they move up to a larger bike (Abs or not).


I don't agree that lockups are less common on 125. Most 125 have skinny, commuter tires which are cheap and hard wearing (so limited grip). Engine braking is rarely the cause of a lock up (unless harsh down changes are involved). It's easy (and common) for people to lockup the back.

[RazerSauber]

Username Kate just finished 6 months on a Sinnis Akuma 125 and said it was a good one. For £500 more, you could get a CB125F from Honda. Commuter style and I think the most popular bike in Europe for ages. I think there's an offer on at the minute for half price servicing packages or something, too. Full size bike and people report up to nearly 150mpg.

[Krikkit]

OverSteery said:

The Goldwing has ABS, so lockup aren't a concern. BWM also link brakes, although interestingly Honda link the front brake to the back lever, whereas BMW do the reverse...

Honda link both ways.

I suspect the concept is to let the rider focus on using front brakes, really they shouldn't apply the rear at all, but that then trips them up if they swap over to a bike without linking.

The easiest way is just fork out for a 125 with ABS.

[Fastdruid]

OverSteery said:

Krikkit said:

OverSteery said:

Krikkit said:

What does your Mrs want? Tbh they're much of a muchness, all designed with engines that hit the power limit exactly, all have ABS or linked brakes now.

Duke 125 and MT125 are both nice and quite garish.

Yes, new 125 will have ABS or linked brakes. If you think this is much the same then step away from the bike now. I am mildly perplexed by the legislation for linked brakes - if anything it seems to make lock-up in an emergency more likely than normal.

I haven't actually used linked brakes myself, but your opinion flies in the face of all the OEMs who fit them and the EU who legislated them - given how many novices you see locking the rear brake (or not using it at all) in an emergency it seems, from an outside perspective, like a good idea. Don't forget that rear locking is less likely on a 125 thanks to miniscule engine braking compared to a bigger bike.

Given people like Honda fit linked brakes even to massive beasts like the Goldwing there must be something to it.

I agree there must be evidence - my opinion does indeed contradict and I may be wrong, but it's based on a fair amount of experience.

The Goldwing has ABS, so lockup aren't a concern. BWM also link brakes, although interestingly Honda link the front brake to the back lever, whereas BMW do the reverse.....

I watch anything up to 50+ emergency stops by novices a week while teaching CBTs. It can be the front that locks, as they load up the front brake and then add the rear (which adds to the front and causes the lockup). Particularly common on scooters.

If they don't use the rear brake then the linked brake won't make any difference - it the rear brake that can add to the front (not the reverse) - well that's true for Honda (I'm not sure about the other manufacturers).

As I said I don't understand why it's a good idea. The only time it really helps is should the rider only use the back brake and not the front. They should never get a CBT if they haven't learnt to use both brakes. Conversely, if they learn on a 125 not to bother and the system protects them, it'll be a nasty surprise with they move up to a larger bike (Abs or not).


I don't agree that lockups are less common on 125. Most 125 have skinny, commuter tires which are cheap and hard wearing (so limited grip). Engine braking is rarely the cause of a lock up (unless harsh down changes are involved). It's easy (and common) for people to lockup the back.

Quite a few years ago my wife had a few friends who'd just started riding so we organised an impromptu brake practice session. Quiet section of the local industrial estate of a Sunday, few cones and just practicing emergency braking. Just repeated up to speed, hit the brakes at a marker and try and stop as quickly as possible (after showing them on their bikes how quickly their bike *could* stop). Got them to practice using just the front, just the back and both, repeatedly.

By the end everyone had improved massively and one girl halved the distance from her first effort. That literally could be the difference between stopping before a car and being embedded within it.

So, anyway onto the point about linked brakes. Amusingly, from 30mph there is fk all difference between an RVF400 and a much heavier old '89 VFR750F, my best efforts saw only about 30cm difference between them (the RVF winning).

The VFR is grip limited (it will lock up the front at the limit but never lifts the rear), the RVF is weight limited, assuming a decent surface unless you snatch the brake it's not going to lock but next to impossible to keep two wheels on the ground at the limit. They demand different types of braking for that reason, the VFR I still use a healthy dose of back brake, the RVF I don't bother.

This is where the weight difference comes in, the Goldwing et al will almost certainly be the same as the VFR, they won't lift the rear, *EVER* so a hefty rear brake with a dose of front is good. RVF, meh. The only time I use the back brake on it is to prevent it from looping over the mountain so if you had linked brakes it would be better to give a bit of back to the front.

[conkerman]

Thanks for the comments all.

Bought a new Svartrpilen 125 this morning, Pickup on Tuesday. Want to keep up the momentum so a quick buy it is.

Must admit, looking forward to having a razz about on it.

Bought her a new lid and a mesh intercom so I can chat real time on a few rides to get her up to speed. She is a pretty decent driver so its just getting confident on the bike. If she wants to take DAS or similar then so be it, but we'll cross than bridge when we come to it. Plus it was a nice surprise for her when I bought it there and then.