So now 850cc plus are middleweights
Discussion
When did that happen?
Here's me in 1987 on my GPz900R.
A Superbike, just over 100bhp, pretty heavy. I fell over parking it, pinned to the ground I was, took me a while to struggle free and pulled a few muscles lifting it back up.
I remember hitting 155mph, on the clock, on some motorway many decades ago.
Last year I tested 3 bikes, a Triumph Explorer 1200, a BMW R1250GS and as a left field choice, a BMW F900XR.
My age says go for the big bikes with a screen but I enjoyed the XR more for it's lightweight and flickability, but it just wasn't doing it for me. Oh! and this bike is now considered a middleweight.
In 1982 I had a Z550, in 1988 I got the first CBR600F, these are middleweights surely.
In 2003 I had a Hornet CB600F, then in 2009 a Street Triple......more middleweights.
Surely a half litre bike is a middleweight, yes! I know many of them pack the same bhp wallop of my old GPz900R.
I tested a Monster 937 yesterday, and was smitten. Completely impractical for a long trip as I was battered and bruised from holding on at 70 and more but it made me grin and want to be silly. I'm 60 btw.
I've been checking out reviews and YouTube vids in the past 24 hours just to doublecheck what others say.
Because I want to ring the dealer first thing tomorrow as they have a new one in stock and place a deposit to secure it for the Spring.
But why is this 937cc 110bhp bike called a middleweight and a good bike for learners.
Yes it's far lighter than my old Kwacker and has electronic aids to help mistakes.
What is a heavyweight these days? A Fireblade? A Gold Wing?
Mind you a Fireblade probably weighs the same but with double the power of the Ducati
Random musings as I justify cashing in an ISA
Here's me in 1987 on my GPz900R.
A Superbike, just over 100bhp, pretty heavy. I fell over parking it, pinned to the ground I was, took me a while to struggle free and pulled a few muscles lifting it back up.
I remember hitting 155mph, on the clock, on some motorway many decades ago.
Last year I tested 3 bikes, a Triumph Explorer 1200, a BMW R1250GS and as a left field choice, a BMW F900XR.
My age says go for the big bikes with a screen but I enjoyed the XR more for it's lightweight and flickability, but it just wasn't doing it for me. Oh! and this bike is now considered a middleweight.
In 1982 I had a Z550, in 1988 I got the first CBR600F, these are middleweights surely.
In 2003 I had a Hornet CB600F, then in 2009 a Street Triple......more middleweights.
Surely a half litre bike is a middleweight, yes! I know many of them pack the same bhp wallop of my old GPz900R.
I tested a Monster 937 yesterday, and was smitten. Completely impractical for a long trip as I was battered and bruised from holding on at 70 and more but it made me grin and want to be silly. I'm 60 btw.
I've been checking out reviews and YouTube vids in the past 24 hours just to doublecheck what others say.
Because I want to ring the dealer first thing tomorrow as they have a new one in stock and place a deposit to secure it for the Spring.
But why is this 937cc 110bhp bike called a middleweight and a good bike for learners.
Yes it's far lighter than my old Kwacker and has electronic aids to help mistakes.
What is a heavyweight these days? A Fireblade? A Gold Wing?
Mind you a Fireblade probably weighs the same but with double the power of the Ducati
Random musings as I justify cashing in an ISA
I don't think the cc is that relevant any more as a 1000cc cruiser might only make 50bhp and a 1000cc sports bike might make 4x that
I see it on here regularly that a 100+ bhp bike is fine for a newbie - maybe it is for a few but if the top level bikes are making 200+bhp then I suppose middleweights are making 100
Except that there really aren't that many 200+bhp bikes, most are closer to 150. Middleweights for me are circa 75bhp
It probably depends which group of riders / bikes you mix with
Buy whatever puts the smile on your face
I see it on here regularly that a 100+ bhp bike is fine for a newbie - maybe it is for a few but if the top level bikes are making 200+bhp then I suppose middleweights are making 100
Except that there really aren't that many 200+bhp bikes, most are closer to 150. Middleweights for me are circa 75bhp
It probably depends which group of riders / bikes you mix with
Buy whatever puts the smile on your face
Biker's Nemesis said:
At your age you should be thinking more about keeping warm in the winter months than worrying about....Well, not sure what you were saying...
As of this past winter I have finally discovered the secret of winter riding.
Bike in the back of the garage, Sorned and over 60s Oyster card put to good use or the car
As with many things in life, this is a question of shades of grey rather than black and white arguments.
I agree with the above that 150bhp+ is a big bike, 50-75 is middleweight. That leaves your new Monster right in between. Then you have the complication that the exact same bike can come with two different engines, for example the Multistrada V2 and V4. That's a big bike with a lower power option - does that make it a middleweight?
You also have mid-size bikes with powerful engines like the new Hornet - size-wise it's a middleweight but the engine's nearly 100bhp. Tricky to pigeonhole.
Let's invent a new category of "sweet spot". 100-110bhp, exactly in between mid and large. Enough pace for any practical purpose, fuel consumption reasonable, probably easy to maintain, reasonably priced. Can come in various formats (R9T, Scrambler, Monster, Hornet, various KTMs).
That's where the interesting real-world bikes live.
I agree with the above that 150bhp+ is a big bike, 50-75 is middleweight. That leaves your new Monster right in between. Then you have the complication that the exact same bike can come with two different engines, for example the Multistrada V2 and V4. That's a big bike with a lower power option - does that make it a middleweight?
You also have mid-size bikes with powerful engines like the new Hornet - size-wise it's a middleweight but the engine's nearly 100bhp. Tricky to pigeonhole.
Let's invent a new category of "sweet spot". 100-110bhp, exactly in between mid and large. Enough pace for any practical purpose, fuel consumption reasonable, probably easy to maintain, reasonably priced. Can come in various formats (R9T, Scrambler, Monster, Hornet, various KTMs).
That's where the interesting real-world bikes live.
What I love about the discussion with regards to cc, bhp and newbies is that, when the GPz900R was "the bike", it was said that the power was so HUGE that newbies would die instantly if they even looked at one (alright, a bit of an over exageration, but you know what I mean) and that they needed to start "gently" on bikes of about 500cc (around 40bhp).
Now, middle weights make way more power than the GPz900R but are the "recommended" newbie bikes! It suggests to me that perhaps such recommendations are not, and never have been, based on anything particularly scientific! 
What we do need to remember is that bikers have changed. The average age of the average bike has gotten considerably older. Even in the days of the GPz900R bikes were viewed as a cheap form of transport where, now, they are generally an expensive toy. Likewise, bikes were less focused with very few exceptions. The GPz900R would, today, be considered, at best, a sports tourer yet, when new, it was the then the definative sports/superbike.
Now, middle weights make way more power than the GPz900R but are the "recommended" newbie bikes!
It suggests to me that perhaps such recommendations are not, and never have been, based on anything particularly scientific! What we do need to remember is that bikers have changed. The average age of the average bike has gotten considerably older. Even in the days of the GPz900R bikes were viewed as a cheap form of transport where, now, they are generally an expensive toy. Likewise, bikes were less focused with very few exceptions. The GPz900R would, today, be considered, at best, a sports tourer yet, when new, it was the then the definative sports/superbike.
Back in the day it was the RD250LC and the X7 that meant instant death
Plus they were responsible for bringing in the 125cc restriction until you passed your test.
Saying that, my RDLC was a pig to ride unless you kept the revs in a very narrow power band but it was tuned by Stan Stephens
I was at Newlands Corner near Guildford the other day. A few bikes around, nearly all in the £10k to £20k bracket, their riders in kit worth £1000s and all around my age.
When I was 17 to 25, I was out most nights with my mates on our bikes, usually heading to Box Hill.
Working our way from 125s to 550s, 750s and 900s
We went from going to the carpark at the bottom to be impressed by the bigger bikes and their owner's tales, to being the ones with tales and a gaggle of young onlookers, impressed by our CBRs, GSXRs, Katanas etc
Guess that right of passage doesn't exist anymore and these days even I find the cost of bikes, insurance, petrol, tax pretty expensive so it's no wonder the youngsters are not interested.
Plus they were responsible for bringing in the 125cc restriction until you passed your test.
Saying that, my RDLC was a pig to ride unless you kept the revs in a very narrow power band but it was tuned by Stan Stephens
I was at Newlands Corner near Guildford the other day. A few bikes around, nearly all in the £10k to £20k bracket, their riders in kit worth £1000s and all around my age.
When I was 17 to 25, I was out most nights with my mates on our bikes, usually heading to Box Hill.
Working our way from 125s to 550s, 750s and 900s
We went from going to the carpark at the bottom to be impressed by the bigger bikes and their owner's tales, to being the ones with tales and a gaggle of young onlookers, impressed by our CBRs, GSXRs, Katanas etc
Guess that right of passage doesn't exist anymore and these days even I find the cost of bikes, insurance, petrol, tax pretty expensive so it's no wonder the youngsters are not interested.
Edited by croyde on Monday 27th March 13:56
black-k1 said:
What I love about the discussion with regards to cc, bhp and newbies is that, when the GPz900R was "the bike", it was said that the power was so HUGE that newbies would die instantly if they even looked at one (alright, a bit of an over exageration, but you know what I mean) and that they needed to start "gently" on bikes of about 500cc (around 40bhp).
Now, middle weights make way more power than the GPz900R but are the "recommended" newbie bikes! It suggests to me that perhaps such recommendations are not, and never have been, based on anything particularly scientific!
What we do need to remember is that bikers have changed. The average age of the average bike has gotten considerably older. Even in the days of the GPz900R bikes were viewed as a cheap form of transport where, now, they are generally an expensive toy. Likewise, bikes were less focused with very few exceptions. The GPz900R would, today, be considered, at best, a sports tourer yet, when new, it was the then the definative sports/superbike.
A GPZ900R would be a hell of a lot harder work to ride than the new, lighter middleweight nakeds imho. Now, middle weights make way more power than the GPz900R but are the "recommended" newbie bikes!
It suggests to me that perhaps such recommendations are not, and never have been, based on anything particularly scientific! What we do need to remember is that bikers have changed. The average age of the average bike has gotten considerably older. Even in the days of the GPz900R bikes were viewed as a cheap form of transport where, now, they are generally an expensive toy. Likewise, bikes were less focused with very few exceptions. The GPz900R would, today, be considered, at best, a sports tourer yet, when new, it was the then the definative sports/superbike.
Take the Monster 937 already mentioned in the thread, for example, 110hp (ish) and 186kg kerb weight (166 dry) vs the GPZ's 110hp and ~250kg ( 234 dry!) - compared to the 80s you've got better suspension, brakes and tyres (massively improved in fact), then the TCS, ABS etc into the mix too, ride by wire giving smooth power etc.
I know which one I'd like to try and set a lap on!
That, and you split whatever's about to give a range of options, so now with the 200+ hp bikes you get half way to something sensible.
I have no idea what you're talking about, but remember going up to London for a interview for university on my yam xs850. I was stationary on one of the dual carriageways in London in the slow lane when a truck slowly came past my right hand side and hit the bike pushing me over, and the bike on top of my leg. I was completely trapped and couldn't move. The truck pretended he hadn't see anything despite the fact I could see him looking at me through his wing mirror.
The traffic then started to speed up and despite the fact the car wheels were now going what felt like pretty fast about a few centimetres from my head. No one stopped to help me up. Drivers behind me were pulling into the faster lane to pass by me.
I was pretty convinced that one of the drivers behind wouldn't see me and would just drive over, and I was yelling my head off for help with no one taking any notice.
It felt like about five minutes and about thirty or forty cars pulling out around me until someone behind me stopped, got out of her car and came over to me. She caused enough of a commotion that all the cars then stopped and it took two guys to lift the car off me. I probably wouldn't be here in the same shape today if it hadn't been for her. She had apparently driven into London from Hampshire that morning.
Your post just bought it all back to me, and reiterated what a s
thole London is. Its the sort of place that if there was a zombie apocalypse, it really wouldn't change what the majority of Londoners do.
The good news is that all the bikes I have owned since then have felt featherlight in comparison
The traffic then started to speed up and despite the fact the car wheels were now going what felt like pretty fast about a few centimetres from my head. No one stopped to help me up. Drivers behind me were pulling into the faster lane to pass by me.
I was pretty convinced that one of the drivers behind wouldn't see me and would just drive over, and I was yelling my head off for help with no one taking any notice.
It felt like about five minutes and about thirty or forty cars pulling out around me until someone behind me stopped, got out of her car and came over to me. She caused enough of a commotion that all the cars then stopped and it took two guys to lift the car off me. I probably wouldn't be here in the same shape today if it hadn't been for her. She had apparently driven into London from Hampshire that morning.
Your post just bought it all back to me, and reiterated what a s
thole London is. Its the sort of place that if there was a zombie apocalypse, it really wouldn't change what the majority of Londoners do. The good news is that all the bikes I have owned since then have felt featherlight in comparison
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