Adventure Bikes off road?
Discussion
Hoping the hive mind could shed some light. I've got a Triumph Tiger 800 which I really enjoy. My brother has just passed his test and the intention was to do some of the "Great Western Trail" down into Devon/Cornwall in the summer.
I was under the impression that Adventure Bikes such as the likes of the BMW GS / Honda Africa Twin / Triumph Tiger were the kind of perfect bike for what I want, comfy and grown up enough to use on the motorway, ride 2-up, do a bit of touring and also hit some light green lanes.
I've now been told by more than one person that I would be mad to even consider taking my Tiger off road, too heavy, wrong suspension, should buy a KTM Enduro 2T for green lanes etc.
I understand that a much lighter 2T enduro bike would be better on green lanes, but I kind of want an all rounder. I'm not in a position to have two bikes, and I imagine a 2T KTM or the like would be terrible on the road and over any sort of distance.
I'm not expecting the Tiger to be the ultimate mud plugger but I thought it would be able to take some UK green lanes in its stride with some more aggressive tyres.
Feeling a bit dejected now...
I was under the impression that Adventure Bikes such as the likes of the BMW GS / Honda Africa Twin / Triumph Tiger were the kind of perfect bike for what I want, comfy and grown up enough to use on the motorway, ride 2-up, do a bit of touring and also hit some light green lanes.
I've now been told by more than one person that I would be mad to even consider taking my Tiger off road, too heavy, wrong suspension, should buy a KTM Enduro 2T for green lanes etc.
I understand that a much lighter 2T enduro bike would be better on green lanes, but I kind of want an all rounder. I'm not in a position to have two bikes, and I imagine a 2T KTM or the like would be terrible on the road and over any sort of distance.
I'm not expecting the Tiger to be the ultimate mud plugger but I thought it would be able to take some UK green lanes in its stride with some more aggressive tyres.
Feeling a bit dejected now...
How many times would you estimate you can pull the tiger out of a mud/water filled ditch after you've parked it there (upside down) for the umpteenth time?
Depending on rider skills /confidence they can do lots of stuff, but ultimately they are big heavy pigs that can fall over damaging lots of usually expensive bits, whereas a trail bike is usually infinitely more droppable and a lot lighter to pick up/drag out a bog etc. There are plenty (of Trail) riders that would baulk as using something as heavy as a KTM 600+ single on british green lanes which is a shed load lighter than a big adv bike. Some trails will be big Adv bike compatible but some are too muddy/technically challenging for the average blerk on a big bike (cant comment on the trail mentioned) . Go on one of the big Adv bike training schools to get an idea of what it & you are capable of before ending up crying into the repair bill for bent bits or wondering if you'll ever get back out the bog it was last parked in. YMMV
Depending on rider skills /confidence they can do lots of stuff, but ultimately they are big heavy pigs that can fall over damaging lots of usually expensive bits, whereas a trail bike is usually infinitely more droppable and a lot lighter to pick up/drag out a bog etc. There are plenty (of Trail) riders that would baulk as using something as heavy as a KTM 600+ single on british green lanes which is a shed load lighter than a big adv bike. Some trails will be big Adv bike compatible but some are too muddy/technically challenging for the average blerk on a big bike (cant comment on the trail mentioned) . Go on one of the big Adv bike training schools to get an idea of what it & you are capable of before ending up crying into the repair bill for bent bits or wondering if you'll ever get back out the bog it was last parked in. YMMV
I had an Africa Twin for three years due to a staggeringly good PCP deal. I did a BMW GS taster session (where I dropped the bike about 50 times), beyond that I had no off road experience, I just whacked some crashbars on it and off I went.
It was a steep learning curve. The bike did go down many times, I did on one occasion need a friend to come help me get it out a ditch, I did s
t myself at the potential repair bills as it toppled (repeatedly), but big damage never happened. Ultimately I did hundreds of miles of forestry trails, beaches, exploring Scottish islands, old peat trails, single tracks etc. and there is no other vehicle I would have chosen.
It's horses for courses. Whilst it's perfectly capable on all but the worst green lanes, it's getting there where ADVs really shine. You can ride all day, find a deserted road on a Scottish isle and just bomb around. Then ride hundreds of miles around country lanes or motorways back to your hotel, with all your luggage, in relative comfort. They're incredible machines and extremely capable, "masters of two worlds", if you'll forgive the cliché.
Adventure bikes are the "all rounders", they sound ideal for your brief.
It was a steep learning curve. The bike did go down many times, I did on one occasion need a friend to come help me get it out a ditch, I did s
t myself at the potential repair bills as it toppled (repeatedly), but big damage never happened. Ultimately I did hundreds of miles of forestry trails, beaches, exploring Scottish islands, old peat trails, single tracks etc. and there is no other vehicle I would have chosen. It's horses for courses. Whilst it's perfectly capable on all but the worst green lanes, it's getting there where ADVs really shine. You can ride all day, find a deserted road on a Scottish isle and just bomb around. Then ride hundreds of miles around country lanes or motorways back to your hotel, with all your luggage, in relative comfort. They're incredible machines and extremely capable, "masters of two worlds", if you'll forgive the cliché.
Adventure bikes are the "all rounders", they sound ideal for your brief.
Thanks for the input, I'm far more experienced at riding off the road than on it but I feel I've done the whole enduro bike thing. I've fitted massive Heed crash bars to my Tiger and was ready just to order some more off road suitable tyres but the guy at the shop put a bit of a downer on the whole idea. Like most other things in my life I think I'm going to ignore his advice and do it anyway, if I drop it then so be it, it's what I bought it for and I'll never be on a trail on my own anyway.
Reminds me of a time when me and my brothers enquired on a forum post about tagging along with a 4x4 group on a day out across Salisbury Plains. We were going to do it in a Jimny on road tyres. Cue all the experts telling us we'd need M/T tyres, lift kits etc or we wouldn't even get out out of the first car park. Ignoring them all we turned up in the Jimny and had the best day, I don't think we even engaged 4x4 for 90% of it.
Reminds me of a time when me and my brothers enquired on a forum post about tagging along with a 4x4 group on a day out across Salisbury Plains. We were going to do it in a Jimny on road tyres. Cue all the experts telling us we'd need M/T tyres, lift kits etc or we wouldn't even get out out of the first car park. Ignoring them all we turned up in the Jimny and had the best day, I don't think we even engaged 4x4 for 90% of it.
My Tiger 900 weighs about 500lbs wet, and I can pick it up about 3-4 times before I start getting tired, depends on the day and where it falls over.
But I'd say any mid-sized adventure bike will handle 90% of off road stuff fine, as long as it's not tight single track, and as long as it's not lots of deep mud.
You definitely need good 50/50 tyres though like TKC80 or Mitas E07.
But I'd say any mid-sized adventure bike will handle 90% of off road stuff fine, as long as it's not tight single track, and as long as it's not lots of deep mud.
You definitely need good 50/50 tyres though like TKC80 or Mitas E07.
Boobonman said:
Thanks for the input, I'm far more experienced at riding off the road than on it but I feel I've done the whole enduro bike thing. I've fitted massive Heed crash bars to my Tiger and was ready just to order some more off road suitable tyres but the guy at the shop put a bit of a downer on the whole idea. Like most other things in my life I think I'm going to ignore his advice and do it anyway, if I drop it then so be it, it's what I bought it for and I'll never be on a trail on my own anyway.
Reminds me of a time when me and my brothers enquired on a forum post about tagging along with a 4x4 group on a day out across Salisbury Plains. We were going to do it in a Jimny on road tyres. Cue all the experts telling us we'd need M/T tyres, lift kits etc or we wouldn't even get out out of the first car park. Ignoring them all we turned up in the Jimny and had the best day, I don't think we even engaged 4x4 for 90% of it.
Literally this. I remember first time Germany (nurburgring) tried getting a bit of advice, went out there and rode a comfy pace for me only to be told I was lying, Impossible or I'm just a danger... The post is years back on here somewhereReminds me of a time when me and my brothers enquired on a forum post about tagging along with a 4x4 group on a day out across Salisbury Plains. We were going to do it in a Jimny on road tyres. Cue all the experts telling us we'd need M/T tyres, lift kits etc or we wouldn't even get out out of the first car park. Ignoring them all we turned up in the Jimny and had the best day, I don't think we even engaged 4x4 for 90% of it.
I'm a competent off road rider myself and took a new Yamaha tenere 700 for a Wales off road trip last year. The guide was similar age to be and picked up quickly that like you I'm often riding on the dirt so took me routes the WR250 & 450s go. Other than the suspension being VERY soft and you needing to man handle it a bit I had no problems plus it was much nicer on tarmac when I was going between the off road sections
I'd say go for it but choose decent tyres and maybe invest a bit into a decent suspension setup/revalve
Rubbish...
I took a KTM 1190 Adv S up to Malawi, Mozambique and Tanzania over 2 years without issue.
The real key is some crash bars to protect the rads from when you end up laying it down, a decent (non plastic) bash plate, a rad guard to protect from stones and branches and decent tyres.
I ran TKC80's once in Malawi which are very aggressive off road pattern and squared off significantly after fast road runs but were fantastic in the sand and mud. All the manufacturers make a range of 50:50 to 80;20 road/dirt adv tyres so it's down to your personal preference and consideration of real usage.
As long as you can switch the ABS and TC off and you're able to lift the bike up and you're wearing decent off road boots, no reason not too. Also, don't be precious about the bike, it will take a tumble but scratches give character
A full fat GS I'd be a little circumspect about, simply due to the heft but otherwise, you don't need a dedicated Enduro bike.. Nice if you can but not necessary if you want to do a bit of dual sport riding.
Me and a colleague just outside Harare Zimbabwe heading to Blantyre...
I took a KTM 1190 Adv S up to Malawi, Mozambique and Tanzania over 2 years without issue.
The real key is some crash bars to protect the rads from when you end up laying it down, a decent (non plastic) bash plate, a rad guard to protect from stones and branches and decent tyres.
I ran TKC80's once in Malawi which are very aggressive off road pattern and squared off significantly after fast road runs but were fantastic in the sand and mud. All the manufacturers make a range of 50:50 to 80;20 road/dirt adv tyres so it's down to your personal preference and consideration of real usage.
As long as you can switch the ABS and TC off and you're able to lift the bike up and you're wearing decent off road boots, no reason not too. Also, don't be precious about the bike, it will take a tumble but scratches give character
A full fat GS I'd be a little circumspect about, simply due to the heft but otherwise, you don't need a dedicated Enduro bike.. Nice if you can but not necessary if you want to do a bit of dual sport riding.
Me and a colleague just outside Harare Zimbabwe heading to Blantyre...
The main thing I found was that the more I rode off-road, the more confident I got. So after an hour or so of throwing a big bike around, it starts to feel like a dirt bike.
All you need is good tyres, unless you're doing large rocks/jumps the suspension will probably be fine. I don't think I've bottomed out the Tiger yet, even loaded up with luggage.
And yes, any KTM enduro smaller than the 690 is going to be pretty sh!t on the road. The 350/500 4 stroke (EXC-F) can do it, but it's basically a dirt bike with lights and indicators.
All you need is good tyres, unless you're doing large rocks/jumps the suspension will probably be fine. I don't think I've bottomed out the Tiger yet, even loaded up with luggage.
And yes, any KTM enduro smaller than the 690 is going to be pretty sh!t on the road. The 350/500 4 stroke (EXC-F) can do it, but it's basically a dirt bike with lights and indicators.
I regularly took an f800gs off road and friends took their 1200/1250 gs bmws. Amazing what they could do and where they could go. But if you fall off regularly…. As I did… it can be exhausting (and difficult depending on the terrain) picking them up.
I wouldn’t go back to a big bike like that now for very muddy/difficult trails. I just like the easier ride (and pick up) of smaller bikes. Which is fine, as long as you don’t need to ride too far to find the trails.
Gratuitous pic:
I wouldn’t go back to a big bike like that now for very muddy/difficult trails. I just like the easier ride (and pick up) of smaller bikes. Which is fine, as long as you don’t need to ride too far to find the trails.
Gratuitous pic:
Edited by ThreadKiller on Friday 24th March 19:04
Edited by ThreadKiller on Friday 24th March 19:08
Edited by ThreadKiller on Friday 24th March 19:11
There’s people that’s been on round the world trips in some of the most hostile environments on bikes that should never go off road like hardtail choppers and 1000cc sports bikes. If an adventure bike with long travel suspension can’t handle a few off road tracks, there’s something very wrong
The answer as always... it depends
I go green laning regularly - in Warwickshire - in winter it's deep ruts that are filled with sticky / slippy clay and you'd have to be a bloody good rider to get through and you'd need full knobbly tyres
I did the ABR at Ragley Hall and after a little rain bikes were being dropped everywhere and many couldn't get up even slight inclines and couldn't believe the trouble they were having (due to the clay)
In the Peaks there is (obviously) far more stone so knobblies aren't such a requirement but to get a big bike up a steep incline on "baby heads" or up rock steps takes some doing
If however you know the local lanes - and which are suitable for big bikes you can enjoy yourself but it may well eliminate a big percentage of already scarce lanes
Most of Salisbury plain is fine for big bikes though
So it depends, plus a great rider can take a big bike where an average rider struggles on an enduro
I go green laning regularly - in Warwickshire - in winter it's deep ruts that are filled with sticky / slippy clay and you'd have to be a bloody good rider to get through and you'd need full knobbly tyres
I did the ABR at Ragley Hall and after a little rain bikes were being dropped everywhere and many couldn't get up even slight inclines and couldn't believe the trouble they were having (due to the clay)
In the Peaks there is (obviously) far more stone so knobblies aren't such a requirement but to get a big bike up a steep incline on "baby heads" or up rock steps takes some doing
If however you know the local lanes - and which are suitable for big bikes you can enjoy yourself but it may well eliminate a big percentage of already scarce lanes
Most of Salisbury plain is fine for big bikes though
So it depends, plus a great rider can take a big bike where an average rider struggles on an enduro
I discovered fairly quickly that "off road" in the Adventure bike world is very different to what I think of as off road.
When I bought my Tenere 700 I realised straight away that it would be pretty good on the road, but to high and too heavy for me to do any proper off roading. Very light & dry greenlaning, and forestry roads would be about the limit for me on the Tenere 700.
Remember you are not Pol Torres, and neither am I.
If you want to tackle more technical off road, wet, deep mud, ruts, technical climbs etc. and still have something that's bearable on the road, I would have thought a CRF250 / 300 would be the ideal thing.
When I bought my Tenere 700 I realised straight away that it would be pretty good on the road, but to high and too heavy for me to do any proper off roading. Very light & dry greenlaning, and forestry roads would be about the limit for me on the Tenere 700.
Remember you are not Pol Torres, and neither am I.
If you want to tackle more technical off road, wet, deep mud, ruts, technical climbs etc. and still have something that's bearable on the road, I would have thought a CRF250 / 300 would be the ideal thing.
Edited by BlackG7R on Saturday 25th March 18:03
BlackG7R said:
I discovered fairly quickly that "off road" in the Adventure bike world is very different to what I think of as off road.
When I bought my Tenere 700 I realised straight away that it would be pretty good on the road, but to high and too heavy for me to do any proper off roading. Very light & dry greenlaning, and forestry roads would be about the limit for me on the Tenere 700.
Remember you are not Pol Torres, and neither am I.
If you want to tackle more technical off road, wet, deep mud, ruts, technical climbs etc. and still have something that's bearable on the road, I would have thought a CRF250 / 300 would be the ideal thing.
Exactly.When I bought my Tenere 700 I realised straight away that it would be pretty good on the road, but to high and too heavy for me to do any proper off roading. Very light & dry greenlaning, and forestry roads would be about the limit for me on the Tenere 700.
Remember you are not Pol Torres, and neither am I.
If you want to tackle more technical off road, wet, deep mud, ruts, technical climbs etc. and still have something that's bearable on the road, I would have thought a CRF250 / 300 would be the ideal thing.
Edited by BlackG7R on Saturday 25th March 18:03
Adventure bike 'offroad' is basically 'mildly inconvenient for a woman pushing a pram'.
Have you searched for videos on YT? Should give you an idea of what to expect.
https://youtu.be/pSz0YPXLVq8
https://youtu.be/pSz0YPXLVq8
I live down in Devon and ride the lanes a fair bit. Some are tricky, especially in winter. I wouldn't want to be on a big bike on them and I used to green lane a gs1200 a fair bit. Now I ride smaller stuff. But if you're keen for it the Tiger will do it, you just have to be realistic that it's the wrong bike for the job - it's not a green lane bike - but with some decent tyres and what I would advise is not riding on your own unless you know the track. Some of the lanes down here start easy then hit you straight into a steep rocky gully. There's a good Facebook group called the south west trail riders and someone on that organises big bike ride outs which would be ideal. You just need to know which lanes to ride to get used to the bike and build some confidence.
Hugo Stiglitz said:
Definitely make sure you fit bars- the engine block etc are really really easier to catastrophically damage even on a simple drop. Most adventure riding is on fire roads. Even most green lanes are quite tame.
Bars can band frames. Many people take the 990 Adventures crash bars offgareth_r said:
Have you searched for videos on YT? Should give you an idea of what to expect.
https://youtu.be/pSz0YPXLVq8
That video is pretty good, it covers the whole of the Great SW Trail, and although he never talks, just captions it, it does give a fair idea. I watched it some months back as I'd like to do that sometime. I seem to remember he said there were just a few sections where the T7 was tricky?https://youtu.be/pSz0YPXLVq8
I like riding my T7 off-road, and have done various sections of the TET in the south east (and will be doing more) but they're (very) hard work when you have to pick them up, and they do need a bit more muscling about than an enduro bike. Also as said above you have to not be precious about them; I bought mine with the intention of off-roading it, so I've fitted decent protection but still has a few battle scars. We've come across things like fallen trees on the TET, and whereas with an enduro bike you'd just drag it under or over the tree, an adv bike takes a lot more effort (and usually more than one person) for things like that.
Extreme example but here's what happens when you come across a rock slide on the trail and you're on an adv bike. This picture doesn't even start to do it justice; in the foreground out of shot was a sheer drop, and the rock face was at 45 degrees. Took everyone in that pic to get the two T7s across, whereas the enduro bikes just needed a couple of people to drag them and steady them.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff