More insurance madness

[black-k1]

It's renewal time again and I'm doing a shop around. Bennetts have come up as one of the cheapest for my H2 SX SE, valued at £14,000, at £144 for the fully comp. business use and 8000 miles in the year. Pretty reasonable I thought but then, I'm an Old Git!

However, I have declared that I have BST carbon wheels fitted to the bike and valued them at £3000. The simple addition of the carbon wheels has increased the premium to £577

How can a 4 times hike in the premium be justified for the addition of a set of wheels at are less that 25% of the value of the bike?

I so miss Loon as justifying this would have made my day.

[Tango13]

I have an agreed value policy for my highly modified frankentrumpet for 50% more than you're insuring yours for and paying 30% less in premiums

Maybe it's the commuting part that's the problem?

Try A-Plan down in Thatcham for a quote

[TimmyMallett]

black-k1 said:

It's renewal time again and I'm doing a shop around. Bennetts have come up as one of the cheapest for my H2 SX SE, valued at £14,000, at £144 for the fully comp. business use and 8000 miles in the year. Pretty reasonable I thought but then, I'm an Old Git!

However, I have declared that I have BST carbon wheels fitted to the bike and valued them at £3000. The simple addition of the carbon wheels has increased the premium to £577

How can a 4 times hike in the premium be justified for the addition of a set of wheels at are less that 25% of the value of the bike?

I so miss Loon as justifying this would have made my day.

I think you're thinking that there is an actuary somewhere who has done some complex analysis that suggests there is a causal link between carbon wheels and the probability of an accident. I think it's more likely that a computer has gone:

'Carbon wheels cost of replacement over standard x of owner that has a propensity to modifying things like this is going to crash = 267% premium load'

I am pretty sure that its just the category of mod. I think wheels are classified in a bin of a higher premium load than say, a remap, for example. I'm sure I was surprised when I remapped a car and it was only £20 extra (I'm old) but then a bigger set of brakes was much higher.

[black-k1]

TimmyMallett said:

black-k1 said:

It's renewal time again and I'm doing a shop around. Bennetts have come up as one of the cheapest for my H2 SX SE, valued at £14,000, at £144 for the fully comp. business use and 8000 miles in the year. Pretty reasonable I thought but then, I'm an Old Git!

However, I have declared that I have BST carbon wheels fitted to the bike and valued them at £3000. The simple addition of the carbon wheels has increased the premium to £577

How can a 4 times hike in the premium be justified for the addition of a set of wheels at are less that 25% of the value of the bike?

I so miss Loon as justifying this would have made my day.

I think you're thinking that there is an actuary somewhere who has done some complex analysis that suggests there is a causal link between carbon wheels and the probability of an accident. I think it's more likely that a computer has gone:

'Carbon wheels cost of replacement over standard x of owner that has a propensity to modifying things like this is going to crash = 267% premium load'

I am pretty sure that its just the category of mod. I think wheels are classified in a bin of a higher premium load than say, a remap, for example. I'm sure I was surprised when I remapped a car and it was only £20 extra (I'm old) but then a bigger set of brakes was much higher.

I think that was my point. The insurance "bins" approach may appear to make life easier for the insurance industry but the reality is that the results often have little to do with reality, especially when viewed through the eyes of individual customers.

[TimmyMallett]

black-k1 said:

I think that was my point. The insurance "bins" approach may appear to make life easier for the insurance industry but the reality is that the results often have little to do with reality, especially when viewed through the eyes of individual customers.

Yeah, its a bit rubbish. The only way you can avoid it is to use someone who can customise it carefully, or just go elsewhere. Which itself is a massive pain in the arse if you have mods, and don't even get me started on price comparison sites if you are anything other than completely vanilla because in my experience, when the likes of Confused.com asks for all your details, including mods, it utterly fails to pass that information on accurately to the brokers so the cheap price you think you get in a lovely list is actually based on a mod it has entirely missed off and you have to be VERY careful to check the policy details.

[bogie]

Try bikesure for a quote, I have all 3 bikes on a policy with them (£30k total value) 2 of the bikes are highly modified, one has BST wheels. I have 8k miles spread over the 3 bikes, but its SDP only (business use may bump yours up) Im 52 in a rural area and just renewed for £430 total.

[croyde]

When I had a Mustang it was reasonably cheap to insure. Surprising for a 400 odd bhp brand new car.

Ford did a service for applying a racing stripe across the roof and bonnet.

Insurance wanted to double my premium, Double!!

The addition of a black stripe obviously turns me from a mild mannered 50 something into a complete boy racer.

Who's to say I wasn't before

Insurance??

[sixor8]

I'm with Benetts too, and to be fair, they have a long list of accepted mods that don't have to be declared:

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/customer/help-advice/mo...

I have a GSF1250 with several of these, which suited me, but I note that wheels are listed. I expect that this is why mods not on the list are heavily penalised. If it were me, I'd not fit them.

[Dog Star]

Bennett’s are pretty good on mods, and I used them for years until they became unable to answer the phone - fk knows how you’d get on if you had to claim. I went to Bemoto and pay slightly more for the same cover with the same underwriter (Axa) but at least they answer the phone.

[LordFlathead]

Dog Star said:

Bennett’s are pretty good on mods, and I used them for years until they became unable to answer the phone - fk knows how you’d get on if you had to claim. I went to Bemoto and pay slightly more for the same cover with the same underwriter (Axa) but at least they answer the phone.

I just lapsed my BeMoto multi-bike policy, unlikely to use them again. Had four bikes with them last year, total premium was £700 (£40k insured). Cancelled one bike told no refund at all. Later cancelled 2nd bike and didn't question it but wanted bike off of my name so thought lesson learned. Cancelled 3rd bike and I complained about lack of refund during the cancellation as I was never informed of this when I took the policy out. Advisor admitted that was wrong and made me a small payment of £96 back for the previous cancellations. Now only have one bike left - MV Agusta F4 1000 - also to be sold as I am buying a house. Renewal for one bike came in at £732! Bike is covered under my building policy as a single item with a value of £15k and they didn't load the policy. It will do until I sell the bike. BeMoto started off good then turned bad.

It seems that every year you have to play this game of good guy bad guy until you find one that suits your personal requirements. It shouldn't be this difficult in a modern world.

[sixor8]

LordFlathead said:

.....Bike is covered under my building policy as a single item with a value of £15k and they didn't load the policy. It will do until I sell the bike....

I'm curious about this. I have single item coverage as I expect do most home insurance policies but I had assumed it only extended to things like bicycles, sports equimpent, expensive toolkits etc, not items classed as motor vehicles. Have you had this confirmed? I have kept my bike insured 'normally' despite not being on the road since last November.

[Dog Star]

sixor8 said:

LordFlathead said:

.....Bike is covered under my building policy as a single item with a value of £15k and they didn't load the policy. It will do until I sell the bike....

I'm curious about this. I have single item coverage as I expect do most home insurance policies but I had assumed it only extended to things like bicycles, sports equimpent, expensive toolkits etc, not items classed as motor vehicles. Have you had this confirmed? I have kept my bike insured 'normally' despite not being on the road since last November.

Agreed - I'd love to know the insurer that covers motor vehicles as items.

[Tango13]

sixor8 said:

I'm curious about this. I have single item coverage as I expect do most home insurance policies but I had assumed it only extended to things like bicycles, sports equipment, expensive toolkits etc, not items classed as motor vehicles. Have you had this confirmed? I have kept my bike insured 'normally' despite not being on the road since last November.

I have my helmets and leathers covered on the contents policy so if they get damaged in a crash they get replaced

[srob]

I'm not trying to justify it, but could it be because people often claim for damaged carbon wheels and they're a replace not repair job? Wonder if ham-fisted tyre changes can damage them so lots of claims have been recorded or something?

It's more likely some random number generator has rounded up in reality

[snagzie]

srob said:

I'm not trying to justify it, but could it be because people often claim for damaged carbon wheels and they're a replace not repair job? Wonder if ham-fisted tyre changes can damage them so lots of claims have been recorded or something?

It's more likely some random number generator has rounded up in reality

I'd say that is exactly the reason. People, statistically, who fit carbon wheels aftermarket have a higher tendancy to claim.

Not necessarily due to tyre fitters, but IMO it's probs why

Edited by snagzie on Thursday 23 February 07:12

[nute]

Slightly off topic so sorry but how does a no claim discount work with a multi bike policy. Do you just accrue a single NCB ? If you then decide to subsequently insure each one separately do you then have only one NCB and have to do the other bikes without a NCB?

[black-k1]

snagzie said:

srob said:

I'm not trying to justify it, but could it be because people often claim for damaged carbon wheels and they're a replace not repair job? Wonder if ham-fisted tyre changes can damage them so lots of claims have been recorded or something?

It's more likely some random number generator has rounded up in reality

I'd say that is exactly the reason. People, statistically, who fit carbon wheels aftermarket have a higher tendancy to claim.

Not necessarily due to tyre fitters, but IMO it's probs why

Edited by snagzie on Thursday 23 February 07:12

It's possible but I'd be surprised if that was the case. I suspect that there are just not that many people who wit carbon wheels to form a decent sized "bin" so they simply charge a premium that means that pretty much whatever happens, they're protected.

The same happens when brand new models are launched. The insurance cost is sky high just because the insurance companies don't have any real history associated with that model. The first year of my H2 SX, without the carbon wheels, the insurance was nearly £1200. Now it's £144 (without the wheels). The bike hasn't changed. I haven't changed. The use hasn't changed. The premiums are just "think of a number, double it and add in the some more just in case".

[srob]

Might sound thick, but are the wheels secured by lock nuts or anything? I'm guessing they're pretty expensive and not traceable so if you pushed the bike over you could probably get them out pretty quickly and nick them.

Probably not relevant to the OP but just got me wondering! I know people were taking dash panels out of bikes so parts theft seems a thing.

[snagzie]

black-k1 said:

snagzie said:

srob said:

I'm not trying to justify it, but could it be because people often claim for damaged carbon wheels and they're a replace not repair job? Wonder if ham-fisted tyre changes can damage them so lots of claims have been recorded or something?

It's more likely some random number generator has rounded up in reality

I'd say that is exactly the reason. People, statistically, who fit carbon wheels aftermarket have a higher tendancy to claim.

Not necessarily due to tyre fitters, but IMO it's probs why

Edited by snagzie on Thursday 23 February 07:12

It's possible but I'd be surprised if that was the case. I suspect that there are just not that many people who wit carbon wheels to form a decent sized "bin" so they simply charge a premium that means that pretty much whatever happens, they're protected.

The same happens when brand new models are launched. The insurance cost is sky high just because the insurance companies don't have any real history associated with that model. The first year of my H2 SX, without the carbon wheels, the insurance was nearly £1200. Now it's £144 (without the wheels). The bike hasn't changed. I haven't changed. The use hasn't changed. The premiums are just "think of a number, double it and add in the some more just in case".

Thats a good point. More likely what you said. I remember getting silly quotes on a H2 SX too, hence me buying something else.

Might do another quote!

[black-k1]

snagzie said:

Thats a good point. More likely what you said. I remember getting silly quotes on a H2 SX too, hence me buying something else.

Might do another quote!

We'll if another potential H2 SX owner is the result of this, it was worth it!