How are they falling off?
Discussion
Excuse me I'm still new to riding. Whilst looking at YouTube I came across such vid complations.
On dry roads at relatively low speeds how can they understeer or even just fall off?
Grabbing brake in certain ones?
Why ride if you fall off at such speeds?!
https://youtu.be/KFdsOSf21u8
On dry roads at relatively low speeds how can they understeer or even just fall off?
Grabbing brake in certain ones?
Why ride if you fall off at such speeds?!
https://youtu.be/KFdsOSf21u8
Poor road surfaces in a few (bumpy in one, concrete intersection in another), target fixation (looking at the thing they don't want to hit), panic braking (you can tell one of the early ones locked his back wheel when he saw the turn). One guy was put off by his mate braking harder than expected.
And lots of very questionable riding!
Edit: On the Ducati Monster clip, I reckon the corner was tighter than he expected so he grabbed the front brake. That will just make the bike go straighter (done it myself in the early days!).
And lots of very questionable riding!
Edit: On the Ducati Monster clip, I reckon the corner was tighter than he expected so he grabbed the front brake. That will just make the bike go straighter (done it myself in the early days!).
First one - Looks like a bad surface while cranked over, bikes suspension works less with more lean angle so probably had something to do with it.
Second one - Looks like either going too fast for the corner and running wide, or a case of target fixation. Look where you want to go and 99 times out of a 100 you will.
Third - Stupidity.
Fourth - Going to fast over a crest, hitting the brakes in a panic which ultimately made him miss the corner. You'll never hold a line when hammering the front brake.
Fifth - 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other, pedestrian shouldn't have continued given the number of bikes is probably the culprit here, but they were riding like idiots.
Six & seven - lack of talent.
Eight - Driver moved over and clipped the rider, I would probably be filtering much slower though.
Nine - More idiots, dirtbikes on the road, no signals they were turning, rider didn't slow down and assumed they were going straight on.
Ten - Probably spun up or aquaplaned on the water.
Eleven - idiot.
Twelve - bad road position and target fixation when they started running out of road.
Thirteen - sand on the bend.
Fourteen - Scratching my head on this one a little, I think they either panic braked as the junction appeared and/or there was something on the road.
Fifteen - Bad obs, didn't see the rider in front had slowed that much and basically he overshot the corner on the brakes.
Sixteen - Again a bit of target fixation, didn't seem to make any attempt to make the corner, panic braked which 1) moved him further into danger 2) locked the front while at lean angle.
Seventeen - Racing/trackday, kinda standard in trying to out brake someone and locking the front.
Eighteen - So the guy who hooned up between them ran out of road as it went left, he braked and lost the front, you can see the camera guy grab the front brake and lock the front.
Nineteen - I think he was unlucky, looking at the tarmac at the point of his fall it's got grooves in, so less grip. He's leaning over for the corner and I think he's just started opening the throttle and lost grip on those ridges.
Twenty - idiot.
Second one - Looks like either going too fast for the corner and running wide, or a case of target fixation. Look where you want to go and 99 times out of a 100 you will.
Third - Stupidity.
Fourth - Going to fast over a crest, hitting the brakes in a panic which ultimately made him miss the corner. You'll never hold a line when hammering the front brake.
Fifth - 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other, pedestrian shouldn't have continued given the number of bikes is probably the culprit here, but they were riding like idiots.
Six & seven - lack of talent.
Eight - Driver moved over and clipped the rider, I would probably be filtering much slower though.
Nine - More idiots, dirtbikes on the road, no signals they were turning, rider didn't slow down and assumed they were going straight on.
Ten - Probably spun up or aquaplaned on the water.
Eleven - idiot.
Twelve - bad road position and target fixation when they started running out of road.
Thirteen - sand on the bend.
Fourteen - Scratching my head on this one a little, I think they either panic braked as the junction appeared and/or there was something on the road.
Fifteen - Bad obs, didn't see the rider in front had slowed that much and basically he overshot the corner on the brakes.
Sixteen - Again a bit of target fixation, didn't seem to make any attempt to make the corner, panic braked which 1) moved him further into danger 2) locked the front while at lean angle.
Seventeen - Racing/trackday, kinda standard in trying to out brake someone and locking the front.
Eighteen - So the guy who hooned up between them ran out of road as it went left, he braked and lost the front, you can see the camera guy grab the front brake and lock the front.
Nineteen - I think he was unlucky, looking at the tarmac at the point of his fall it's got grooves in, so less grip. He's leaning over for the corner and I think he's just started opening the throttle and lost grip on those ridges.
Twenty - idiot.
Freakuk said:
Fourth - Going to fast over a crest, hitting the brakes in a panic which ultimately made him miss the corner. You'll never hold a line when hammering the front brake.
Didn't he lock the rear? Quite a common one particularly in US clips - they don't have the confidence to really use the front brakes, and just stomp on the rear instead...Krikkit said:
Freakuk said:
Fourth - Going to fast over a crest, hitting the brakes in a panic which ultimately made him miss the corner. You'll never hold a line when hammering the front brake.
Didn't he lock the rear? Quite a common one particularly in US clips - they don't have the confidence to really use the front brakes, and just stomp on the rear instead...Freakuk said:
Second one - Looks like either going too fast for the corner and running wide, or a case of target fixation. Look where you want to go and 99 times out of a 100 you will.
The going too fast for the corner bit being easily avoidable there, and seems like the sort of thing additional training highlights. They must've done dozens of tricky sections on that road prior to that and are probably kicking themselves.Freakuk said:
Eight - Driver moved over and clipped the rider, I would probably be filtering much slower though.
Filtering is illegal in the US, so some car drivers will deliberately try to hinder motorcyclists. Bizarre, but sadly true. Bikers are widely regarded as would-be criminals. Bizarre country in a lot of ways.black-k1 said:
andburg said:
about half of them because they had cameras and were making content / showing off / riding like an idiot
paying more attention to their revenue stream than the road
I think half is too generous. More like 3 quarters. paying more attention to their revenue stream than the road
Thanks for the link you posted lastnight OP, I've only watched the first three, stopping at where the Espace turning into a parking space took out the motorcyclist who passed not realising the Espace had paused in front of them as they were in the process of picking a parking bay and going for it.
That was a reminder to myself having failed to remember it last year when encountering a vehicle that had paused turning into a junction. They'd stopped as around the corner a car was reversing out of a drive way. I saw they'd stopped but failed to consider why they had stopped there like that.
Edited by carinaman on Thursday 5th January 13:11
Freakuk said:
First one - Looks like a bad surface while cranked over, bikes suspension works less with more lean angle so probably had something to do with it.
Second one - Looks like either going too fast for the corner and running wide, or a case of target fixation. Look where you want to go and 99 times out of a 100 you will.
Third - Stupidity.
Fourth - Going to fast over a crest, hitting the brakes in a panic which ultimately made him miss the corner. You'll never hold a line when hammering the front brake.
Fifth - 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other, pedestrian shouldn't have continued given the number of bikes is probably the culprit here, but they were riding like idiots.
Six & seven - lack of talent.
Eight - Driver moved over and clipped the rider, I would probably be filtering much slower though.
Nine - More idiots, dirtbikes on the road, no signals they were turning, rider didn't slow down and assumed they were going straight on.
Ten - Probably spun up or aquaplaned on the water.
Eleven - idiot.
Twelve - bad road position and target fixation when they started running out of road.
Thirteen - sand on the bend.
Fourteen - Scratching my head on this one a little, I think they either panic braked as the junction appeared and/or there was something on the road.
Fifteen - Bad obs, didn't see the rider in front had slowed that much and basically he overshot the corner on the brakes.
Sixteen - Again a bit of target fixation, didn't seem to make any attempt to make the corner, panic braked which 1) moved him further into danger 2) locked the front while at lean angle.
Seventeen - Racing/trackday, kinda standard in trying to out brake someone and locking the front.
Eighteen - So the guy who hooned up between them ran out of road as it went left, he braked and lost the front, you can see the camera guy grab the front brake and lock the front.
Nineteen - I think he was unlucky, looking at the tarmac at the point of his fall it's got grooves in, so less grip. He's leaning over for the corner and I think he's just started opening the throttle and lost grip on those ridges.
Twenty - idiot.
Haven't ridden for 20+ years nowSecond one - Looks like either going too fast for the corner and running wide, or a case of target fixation. Look where you want to go and 99 times out of a 100 you will.
Third - Stupidity.
Fourth - Going to fast over a crest, hitting the brakes in a panic which ultimately made him miss the corner. You'll never hold a line when hammering the front brake.
Fifth - 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other, pedestrian shouldn't have continued given the number of bikes is probably the culprit here, but they were riding like idiots.
Six & seven - lack of talent.
Eight - Driver moved over and clipped the rider, I would probably be filtering much slower though.
Nine - More idiots, dirtbikes on the road, no signals they were turning, rider didn't slow down and assumed they were going straight on.
Ten - Probably spun up or aquaplaned on the water.
Eleven - idiot.
Twelve - bad road position and target fixation when they started running out of road.
Thirteen - sand on the bend.
Fourteen - Scratching my head on this one a little, I think they either panic braked as the junction appeared and/or there was something on the road.
Fifteen - Bad obs, didn't see the rider in front had slowed that much and basically he overshot the corner on the brakes.
Sixteen - Again a bit of target fixation, didn't seem to make any attempt to make the corner, panic braked which 1) moved him further into danger 2) locked the front while at lean angle.
Seventeen - Racing/trackday, kinda standard in trying to out brake someone and locking the front.
Eighteen - So the guy who hooned up between them ran out of road as it went left, he braked and lost the front, you can see the camera guy grab the front brake and lock the front.
Nineteen - I think he was unlucky, looking at the tarmac at the point of his fall it's got grooves in, so less grip. He's leaning over for the corner and I think he's just started opening the throttle and lost grip on those ridges.
Twenty - idiot.
But this all seems spot on. End thread
BFleming said:
Freakuk said:
Eight - Driver moved over and clipped the rider, I would probably be filtering much slower though.
Filtering is illegal in the US, so some car drivers will deliberately try to hinder motorcyclists. Bizarre, but sadly true. Bikers are widely regarded as would-be criminals. Bizarre country in a lot of ways.
) and the driver in that clip clearly didn't do it deliberately.Friendly guy picks up his Harley for him too, so not seeing much anti-biker sentiment.
_Neal_ said:
BFleming said:
Freakuk said:
Eight - Driver moved over and clipped the rider, I would probably be filtering much slower though.
Filtering is illegal in the US, so some car drivers will deliberately try to hinder motorcyclists. Bizarre, but sadly true. Bikers are widely regarded as would-be criminals. Bizarre country in a lot of ways.) and the driver in that clip clearly didn't do it deliberately.Friendly guy picks up his Harley for him too, so not seeing much anti-biker sentiment.
California is the only one to allow lane splitting.
4 other states allow lane filtering.
Another 11 states haven’t really said anything about it, although you’ll looked down on if you get into an accident whilst doing it.
Regarding the filtering one, I find it interesting how that generally divides bikers over how often / speed to do it
When I was doing my IAM training the instructor basically spent 3 months telling me to slow down then he lead somewhere and was filtering far too fast / aggressively IMO
Turned out he'd commuted into London for years (and had several accidents doing so)
I think as bikers we forget that outside of a few large cities, most car drivers rarely see bikers so don't consider them when in traffic (as in that clip)
When I was doing my IAM training the instructor basically spent 3 months telling me to slow down then he lead somewhere and was filtering far too fast / aggressively IMO
Turned out he'd commuted into London for years (and had several accidents doing so)
I think as bikers we forget that outside of a few large cities, most car drivers rarely see bikers so don't consider them when in traffic (as in that clip)
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