Lithium battery charging
Discussion
I have just bought a lithium battery for my Triumph Speed Triple and am wondering if it should be left on an Oxford battery optimiser thingy at all? The charger is suitable for lithium batteries but is it good for lithium batteries to be monitored/trickle charged or should it be left well alone? Cheers!
Lithium is totally different to lead acid chemistry.
Lithium doesn't need trickle charging as it only loses a tiny amount of charge while standing, lead acid is the opposite and self discharges quite rapidly.
I have a spare LiFePo4 cell and I put it in storage about 18 months ago with a charge of 3.2 volts. Checked it a few days ago and it was still at 3.2 volts.
The only downside with lithium is that you can't charge it with a lot of current if the temperature drops below 5C, but most BMS will have a low temperature charging cutoff built in to negate any potential problems.
Fit and forget.
Lithium doesn't need trickle charging as it only loses a tiny amount of charge while standing, lead acid is the opposite and self discharges quite rapidly.
I have a spare LiFePo4 cell and I put it in storage about 18 months ago with a charge of 3.2 volts. Checked it a few days ago and it was still at 3.2 volts.
The only downside with lithium is that you can't charge it with a lot of current if the temperature drops below 5C, but most BMS will have a low temperature charging cutoff built in to negate any potential problems.
Fit and forget.
Yeah as above but check that your bike isn't slowly draining the battery itself. The security system on one of my lithium-equipped bikes sips away at the battery and, I think, lasts for around five months before the under-volt protection activates. I have a C-Tek charger with the "comfort indicator" lead permanently attached to the battery which indicates roughly how much juice is left in the battery.
rodericb said:
Yeah as above but check that your bike isn't slowly draining the battery itself. The security system on one of my lithium-equipped bikes sips away at the battery and, I think, lasts for around five months before the under-volt protection activates. I have a C-Tek charger with the "comfort indicator" lead permanently attached to the battery which indicates roughly how much juice is left in the battery.
Definitely this - my previous bike had an alarm, immobiliser, and to top it off a small parasitic draw that I couldn't identify or eliminate - so I'd pop a trickle charger on it every other weekend just to keep it topped up as once too discharged they are pretty much knackered. Only real advantage of an old lead acid bettery is that you can generally recover deeply discharged batteries - but either way I'd go Lithium every time now for double the cranking amps!Am tempted to go lithium myself, has anyone used the Noco ones? The NLP14 is a drop-in replacement for my existing Yuasa YTX14H-BS lead-acid, which is now starting to show signs of aging. I have a Triumph 1050 engine which is known for knackering starter sprag clutches if the battery is weak, so the high output from lithium sounds good.
I have a Noco jump starter pack and it's very obviously good quality, so I have some confidence in their products.
I have a Noco jump starter pack and it's very obviously good quality, so I have some confidence in their products.
mikey_b said:
Am tempted to go lithium myself, has anyone used the Noco ones? The NLP14 is a drop-in replacement for my existing Yuasa YTX14H-BS lead-acid, which is now starting to show signs of aging. I have a Triumph 1050 engine which is known for knackering starter sprag clutches if the battery is weak, so the high output from lithium sounds good.
I have a Noco jump starter pack and it's very obviously good quality, so I have some confidence in their products.
Obviously, with this being my first foray into lithium batteries on the bike, I can't bring anything useful to the table for you sadly, but all I can say is that the weight saving is crazy. I think the cardboard box the battery was delivered in was heavier than the battery itself. Also on my Triumph 1050 it seems to have more oomph now when turning over. I have a Noco jump starter pack and it's very obviously good quality, so I have some confidence in their products.
mikey_b said:
Am tempted to go lithium myself, has anyone used the Noco ones? The NLP14 is a drop-in replacement for my existing Yuasa YTX14H-BS lead-acid, which is now starting to show signs of aging. I have a Triumph 1050 engine which is known for knackering starter sprag clutches if the battery is weak, so the high output from lithium sounds good.
I have a Noco jump starter pack and it's very obviously good quality, so I have some confidence in their products.
I've run NOCO - infact the NLP14 in my previous and current Sportster - the terminals are the 'wrong way round' for the bike but the mounting the battery on its side means all cables fit and there is a nice space to fit in small toolset. I also have a NOCO lithium charger that can be used on lead acid and gel batteries too.I have a Noco jump starter pack and it's very obviously good quality, so I have some confidence in their products.
Great batteries and double the CCA of the stock HD lead acid one. Only issue I ever had was on my old bike last winter - when it got below about 5C in the mornigns I'd have to turn the bike one and put the highbeam on for 30 seconds or so to wake the battery up before starting otherwise it would take 2 or 3 jabs of the starter to wake up enough to crank - this is 'a thing' with lithium batteries in cold weather and not exclusive to the NOCO brand.
Edit to add - the quality of the battery is great and that even stretches to the NOCO branding boxes etc - it all just feels well put together. The abttery on its own it is VERY small in comparison to a stock battery but comes with multiple spaces so you can adjust the size to fit. It can be mounted any way you want including upside down without issue and the weight saving is insane. The NOCO charger stuff does have its own connector rather than the universal fit one and the adapter isn't cheap though; infact getting a NOCO pigtail to leave on the bike worked out about a fiver cheaper than getting an adapter. Keep an eye on Amazon - the NLP14 regularly drops to about £90 on there at random times through the year.
Edited by DirtyHarley on Thursday 29th December 23:02
If you're asking this because it's winter and the bike isn't being used, the best thing to do is charge it up to full then disconnect it.
I've taken the one off my race car (bike engined, lithium bike battery) and brought it in the house. Did the same last year and after a few months at the bottom of my wardrobe it went straight back on and fired up, hadn't lost any charge.
If it's got a parasitic draw from an alarm or whatever that plus the cold will kill it.
I've taken the one off my race car (bike engined, lithium bike battery) and brought it in the house. Did the same last year and after a few months at the bottom of my wardrobe it went straight back on and fired up, hadn't lost any charge.
If it's got a parasitic draw from an alarm or whatever that plus the cold will kill it.
DirtyHarley said:
I've run NOCO - infact the NLP14 in my previous and current Sportster - the terminals are the 'wrong way round' for the bike but the mounting the battery on its side means all cables fit and there is a nice space to fit in small toolset. I also have a NOCO lithium charger that can be used on lead acid and gel batteries too.
Great batteries and double the CCA of the stock HD lead acid one. Only issue I ever had was on my old bike last winter - when it got below about 5C in the mornigns I'd have to turn the bike one and put the highbeam on for 30 seconds or so to wake the battery up before starting otherwise it would take 2 or 3 jabs of the starter to wake up enough to crank - this is 'a thing' with lithium batteries in cold weather and not exclusive to the NOCO brand.
Excellent, thanks very much for that. I was planning to leave the spacers out and make use of the space that created. Luckily the terminals are the right way around for my Triumph so no worries on that score.Great batteries and double the CCA of the stock HD lead acid one. Only issue I ever had was on my old bike last winter - when it got below about 5C in the mornigns I'd have to turn the bike one and put the highbeam on for 30 seconds or so to wake the battery up before starting otherwise it would take 2 or 3 jabs of the starter to wake up enough to crank - this is 'a thing' with lithium batteries in cold weather and not exclusive to the NOCO brand.
Will bear in mind the cold start tip, but hopefully being in an integral garage that never gets below about 10C that won’t be an issue!
I’ll get one ordered…
Yazza54 said:
plus the cold will kill it.
It’s a common misconception that cold kills batteries. The cranking amps go down as it gets colder but the rate of discharge also decreases. This is true for lithium and lead acid. Lithium especially, benefits from cold storage from a longevity point of view.That being said if you have a parasitic drain you obviously need to charge both types.
I have a lithium battery on my BMW G650x which is kept outside, and whenever the temperature drops close to or below freezing it needs a couple of minutes on the charger before it will turn over even if the bike was fully charged the day before. I had read that this is to do with the lithium chemistry in cold temperatures, and that “warming” the battery up by leaving the headlight on for a few minutes kick starts it but not sure how true this is.
“Lithium batteries get sluggish in the cold even when new – this is not a problem with the battery but a characteristic, and all you need to do is wake it up by leaving the ignition and lights on for a minute or two to 'warm' the battery before starting the bike.”
“Lithium batteries get sluggish in the cold even when new – this is not a problem with the battery but a characteristic, and all you need to do is wake it up by leaving the ignition and lights on for a minute or two to 'warm' the battery before starting the bike.”
I have a KTM 690 SMC R with Li battery.
It lives in a dry unheated lockup which didn't rise above zero in the recent cold spell. I didn't ride it for almost 4 weeks, but started on the button when the temp was around 3c.
I'm interested to know learn more about temp effects on these things....
It lives in a dry unheated lockup which didn't rise above zero in the recent cold spell. I didn't ride it for almost 4 weeks, but started on the button when the temp was around 3c.
I'm interested to know learn more about temp effects on these things....
Yazza54 said:
If you're asking this because it's winter and the bike isn't being used, the best thing to do is charge it up to full then disconnect it.
I've taken the one off my race car (bike engined, lithium bike battery) and brought it in the house. Did the same last year and after a few months at the bottom of my wardrobe it went straight back on and fired up, hadn't lost any charge.
If it's got a parasitic draw from an alarm or whatever that plus the cold will kill it.
But not ideal to remove from the bike if you have a tracker fitted. I replaced my battery with a lithium after the old battery died. So just pop out and charge the battery every 2 months. I have a lithium charger but it does say do not leave on for long periods. Unlike my old battery that was kept on a charger during winter months. I've taken the one off my race car (bike engined, lithium bike battery) and brought it in the house. Did the same last year and after a few months at the bottom of my wardrobe it went straight back on and fired up, hadn't lost any charge.
If it's got a parasitic draw from an alarm or whatever that plus the cold will kill it.
I had 2 batteries die a few weeks back and replaced both with Noco lithium. Already had a Noco lithium on my other bike for 18 months. The >10lb weight saving was quite noticeable due to the battery location being so high up under the fairing on right side on my Triumph Trophy.
I have been running lithium previously for over 7 years as my MV came with a Shido fitted from new (just replaced). Ive never had any issues with them although on a cold morning say 5 deg C I noticed it took a couple of cranks to start. Then I read the tip about giving them some load to "warm up" first. Just switch the ignition on (lights are always on) and leave for a minute before cranking gives the full output and starts the bike normally.
I have been running lithium previously for over 7 years as my MV came with a Shido fitted from new (just replaced). Ive never had any issues with them although on a cold morning say 5 deg C I noticed it took a couple of cranks to start. Then I read the tip about giving them some load to "warm up" first. Just switch the ignition on (lights are always on) and leave for a minute before cranking gives the full output and starts the bike normally.
Birky_41 said:
I hear lots of dont do this and only top up then remove
I had a CRF250 with a lithium battery and my Aprilia Tuono has one too
Both always on trickle when not in use especially over winter
To this day I have NEVER had a battery fail and/or a bike not start
Yeah they will be fine if on trickle constantly it's just some people don't like leaving stuff on, but it's not really any different from say your wifi router being on all day every day etc. I choose to charge up and remove as no power in my garage currently so rather than leave it out in a cold garage without a charger I'd sooner remove and store in the house. I had a CRF250 with a lithium battery and my Aprilia Tuono has one too
Both always on trickle when not in use especially over winter
To this day I have NEVER had a battery fail and/or a bike not start
Birky_41 said:
I hear lots of dont do this and only top up then remove
I had a CRF250 with a lithium battery and my Aprilia Tuono has one too
Both always on trickle when not in use especially over winter
To this day I have NEVER had a battery fail and/or a bike not start
I've got two c-tek chargers (one for lead acid, one for lithium) and, anecdotally, I reckon I've got more chance of the charger self-immolating than the battery so I don't leave them to their own devices for too long..... I had a CRF250 with a lithium battery and my Aprilia Tuono has one too
Both always on trickle when not in use especially over winter
To this day I have NEVER had a battery fail and/or a bike not start
But their "comfort indicators" are handy.
tim0409 said:
I have a lithium battery on my BMW G650x which is kept outside, and whenever the temperature drops close to or below freezing it needs a couple of minutes on the charger before it will turn over even if the bike was fully charged the day before. I had read that this is to do with the lithium chemistry in cold temperatures, and that “warming” the battery up by leaving the headlight on for a few minutes kick starts it but not sure how true this is.
“Lithium batteries get sluggish in the cold even when new – this is not a problem with the battery but a characteristic, and all you need to do is wake it up by leaving the ignition and lights on for a minute or two to 'warm' the battery before starting the bike.”
Lithium cells operate between very specific voltages.“Lithium batteries get sluggish in the cold even when new – this is not a problem with the battery but a characteristic, and all you need to do is wake it up by leaving the ignition and lights on for a minute or two to 'warm' the battery before starting the bike.”
My house batteries are LiFePo4 and the maximum voltage you can charge a cell is 3.65 volts and the lowest you can discharge them to is 2.5 volts. Over 3.68 volts they are damaged, and the same if they go below 2.5 volts, that's why you have a battery management system (BMS) built in to prevent over charge and over discharge. The BMS will also limit charging if the temperature drops below 5C because that can damage the cell.
As for sluggish. They are designed to give full amperage discharge between -20C and +55C so maybe something else is wrong or the battery is just not up to the task.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0481/9678/0183/f...
With a decent BMS you really can't kill a lithium battery.
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