Looking For Advice Re: No Contact Accident
Discussion
A gent who lives just round the corner from me was involved in a no contact accident a couple of weeks back. He's just heard back from his insurer and it sounds like they don't want to pursue the claim, so he's potentially left with a broken ankle, a damaged bike and £30 per day storage charges.
He's wary of using a specialist Motorcycle Claims Service, in case he ends up with even more costs to pay, so I was just wondering whether anyone had any experience of using companies like White Dalton or McAms.
The circumstances of the incident were that he was riding along a semi-rural road (not sure if it was white-lined, but it definitely was wide enough for normal two-way traffic flow). A transit van was parked on the other side of the road and, as he approached the transit, an oncoming car passed the transit on the "wrong" side of the road, causing the rider to take evasive action and, subsequently crash (without hitting the oncoming car).
Obviously, I wasn't there, but from what I've seen of the bloke riding, he is extremely risk averse (For what its worth, he's also recently passed his IAM Advanced Rider course). His bikes are his only form of transport and he rides 12 months a year, so he's well versed in the SMIDSY syndrome.
Any thoughts or feedback on whether it would be worth him contacting someone like McAms would be appreciated.
He's wary of using a specialist Motorcycle Claims Service, in case he ends up with even more costs to pay, so I was just wondering whether anyone had any experience of using companies like White Dalton or McAms.
The circumstances of the incident were that he was riding along a semi-rural road (not sure if it was white-lined, but it definitely was wide enough for normal two-way traffic flow). A transit van was parked on the other side of the road and, as he approached the transit, an oncoming car passed the transit on the "wrong" side of the road, causing the rider to take evasive action and, subsequently crash (without hitting the oncoming car).
Obviously, I wasn't there, but from what I've seen of the bloke riding, he is extremely risk averse (For what its worth, he's also recently passed his IAM Advanced Rider course). His bikes are his only form of transport and he rides 12 months a year, so he's well versed in the SMIDSY syndrome.
Any thoughts or feedback on whether it would be worth him contacting someone like McAms would be appreciated.
Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not quite understanding the problem. He's left with a broken ankle and a damaged bike regardless of any action the insurance company take. When you say "the insurance company don't want to pursue the claim", what "claim" has been proposed? Compensation for the injury? If the bike is comprehensively insured it will get fixed under the insurance anyway.
If you mean a claim for compensation against the other driver, IANAL but I would have thought it would be essential to have footage of the accident on camera (or at the very least a timely forensic investigation of the crash site) to have any chance of claiming the other driver was at fault. Otherwise the other side can claim the rider was recklessly barrelling along at 100mph and it would be their word against his.
As far as his IAM status goes, he obviously missed the bit which says, "you must be able to stop in the distance you can see"!
If you mean a claim for compensation against the other driver, IANAL but I would have thought it would be essential to have footage of the accident on camera (or at the very least a timely forensic investigation of the crash site) to have any chance of claiming the other driver was at fault. Otherwise the other side can claim the rider was recklessly barrelling along at 100mph and it would be their word against his.
As far as his IAM status goes, he obviously missed the bit which says, "you must be able to stop in the distance you can see"!
modellista said:
As far as his IAM status goes, he obviously missed the bit which says, "you must be able to stop in the distance you can see"!
That is for obstructions on your side of the road, not on the off chance some idiot coming the opposite way suddenly swerves across the road into yourigga said:
Did the oncoming car stop at the scene, did he get the details of the car and driver ?
Yup, details were exchanged, it just looks like his insurer reckons there’s not enough evidence to pursue a damages claim. Could well be the case, but I know from experience that in-house claims team can be a bit quick to bail on disputed cases. SteveKTMer said:
He needs to speak to a solicitor used to dealing with bike accidents like this. I've used White Dalton who were very helpful, professional and also successful in my case.
Thanks, appreciate the feedback – I’ll give him White Dalton’s phone number and suggest he gives them a ring (he is a bit “off-grid”)To avoid paying the £30 per day storage charge get either the storage place to deliver the bike his home, they will charge for this, or pay a van courier to pick the bike up and deliver it to his home. I got a van courier to pick my bike up from storage after an accident, it cost me £159, better than racking up overpriced storage charges that an insurance company might not pay for.
Whilst I wouldn't discourage talking to a specialist, I would encourage pushing his own insurers first
These type of cases are decided on the law of probability so if he has a long and blemish free record and someone else stopped and gave their details, it seems highly likely they were involved in the accident
I had someone claim my trailer hit them on the motorway and my insurers were ready to pay out on the basis that it's expensive to defend a claim - I went mad and pointed out I had 30 + years accident free and wasn't about to accept that - they then defended the claim but it probably cost them the same amount as if they had paid out
As this doesn't look to be a massive amount of compensation it shouldn't take much pushing to get a reasonable offer from the other side
These type of cases are decided on the law of probability so if he has a long and blemish free record and someone else stopped and gave their details, it seems highly likely they were involved in the accident
I had someone claim my trailer hit them on the motorway and my insurers were ready to pay out on the basis that it's expensive to defend a claim - I went mad and pointed out I had 30 + years accident free and wasn't about to accept that - they then defended the claim but it probably cost them the same amount as if they had paid out
As this doesn't look to be a massive amount of compensation it shouldn't take much pushing to get a reasonable offer from the other side
KTMsm said:
Whilst I wouldn't discourage talking to a specialist, I would encourage pushing his own insurers first
These type of cases are decided on the law of probability so if he has a long and blemish free record and someone else stopped and gave their details, it seems highly likely they were involved in the accident
I had someone claim my trailer hit them on the motorway and my insurers were ready to pay out on the basis that it's expensive to defend a claim - I went mad and pointed out I had 30 + years accident free and wasn't about to accept that - they then defended the claim but it probably cost them the same amount as if they had paid out
As this doesn't look to be a massive amount of compensation it shouldn't take much pushing to get a reasonable offer from the other side
Whilst (unusually for me) not wishing to sound rude These type of cases are decided on the law of probability so if he has a long and blemish free record and someone else stopped and gave their details, it seems highly likely they were involved in the accident
I had someone claim my trailer hit them on the motorway and my insurers were ready to pay out on the basis that it's expensive to defend a claim - I went mad and pointed out I had 30 + years accident free and wasn't about to accept that - they then defended the claim but it probably cost them the same amount as if they had paid out
As this doesn't look to be a massive amount of compensation it shouldn't take much pushing to get a reasonable offer from the other side
this is why I suggested he contact a bike lawyer who has prosecuted many cases like this and will know exactly how a court will view the situation. Well intended t'internet views like this are not helpful legally.Onelastattempt said:
To avoid paying the £30 per day storage charge get either the storage place to deliver the bike his home, they will charge for this, or pay a van courier to pick the bike up and deliver it to his home. I got a van courier to pick my bike up from storage after an accident, it cost me £159, better than racking up overpriced storage charges that an insurance company might not pay for.
Thanks, he's going to look into the cost of getting the bike delivered to his home or a cheaper storage facility (via a local bike shop).KTMsm said:
Whilst I wouldn't discourage talking to a specialist, I would encourage pushing his own insurers first
These type of cases are decided on the law of probability so if he has a long and blemish free record and someone else stopped and gave their details, it seems highly likely they were involved in the accident
I had someone claim my trailer hit them on the motorway and my insurers were ready to pay out on the basis that it's expensive to defend a claim - I went mad and pointed out I had 30 + years accident free and wasn't about to accept that - they then defended the claim but it probably cost them the same amount as if they had paid out
As this doesn't look to be a massive amount of compensation it shouldn't take much pushing to get a reasonable offer from the other side
Yeah, that would absolutely be my mindset, but I just wanted to let him know that he had options other than using his insurer's in-house legal representation if he was getting nowhere with them. These type of cases are decided on the law of probability so if he has a long and blemish free record and someone else stopped and gave their details, it seems highly likely they were involved in the accident
I had someone claim my trailer hit them on the motorway and my insurers were ready to pay out on the basis that it's expensive to defend a claim - I went mad and pointed out I had 30 + years accident free and wasn't about to accept that - they then defended the claim but it probably cost them the same amount as if they had paid out
As this doesn't look to be a massive amount of compensation it shouldn't take much pushing to get a reasonable offer from the other side
I think he was a bit shell-shocked by his insurer's initial response and, when I spoke to him yesterday morning, he was under the impression that he was not likely to get any compensation for his injuries/costs, beyond bike repair under his own cover.
I have spoken to him again since my original post and it seems that he thought that, if the decision was not 100% in his favour, he wouldn't get any personal injury compensation. I suggested he went back to his insurers to clarify what blame split they were suggesting, and to confirm whether he would get x% of any compensation offer, based on that blame split.
Based on SteveKTMer's positive experience of White Dalton, I've also passed on their number. He's fully aware of the implications of White Dalton taking on the case on a no-win no-fee basis, against the possibility of getting a partial award via his own insurer.
FWIW, while there were no independent witnesses to the incident itself, one arrived during the immediate aftermath and it appears there was some kind of admission of responsibility from the driver. How much that will be worth, who knows, but hopefully, one way or another, he'll get some kind of compensation.
KTMsm said:
Yes but someone has to pay for the bike solicitor which is why I would look at all the free options first
The only people who always win at Court are the solicitors which is generally why they want to escalate, rather than settle
White Dalton will give you 30 mins or an hour free to read your notes and assess your claim, you don't need to pay up front from the first minute.The only people who always win at Court are the solicitors which is generally why they want to escalate, rather than settle
And again your response shows why he should contact them and ignore well intended internet based armchair lawyers. I came out well from my interaction with White Dalton, as did they. If I had ignored the advice to contact them and taken the view like yours that it would be difficult to claim or I was unlikely to receive very much then I'd have had to pay to replace all my kit, fix my bike and not receive money for a broken wrist. This was back in 2007 and I received something like £9k because a council was negligent and damaged a road surface.
They will not take on a case just to make a few quid from it, they're not permitted to by the conditional fee arrangement (used to be no win no fee) - for their insurance to be valid they need to demonstrate that there is a realistic or good chance of success. You can't go around prosecuting any old accident for anybody, that doesn't happen now. (I'm not a lawyer, just recounting what I was told). And you donlt need to pay them anything upfront.
The free option is b
ks isn't it, it might mean this chap doesn't make a claim and gets nothing and has to fix his own bike. That's not an option, that's the default do nothing position which a lazy b'stard might take.So if anybody is involved in an incident which has been caused by somebody or something else, get professional advice and ignore the naysayers on t'internet who will talk you down and cost you money.
SteveKTMer said:
White Dalton will give you 30 mins or an hour free to read your notes and assess your claim, you don't need to pay up front from the first minute.
And again your response shows why he should contact them and ignore well intended internet based armchair lawyers. I came out well from my interaction with White Dalton, as did they. If I had ignored the advice to contact them and taken the view like yours that it would be difficult to claim or I was unlikely to receive very much then I'd have had to pay to replace all my kit, fix my bike and not receive money for a broken wrist. This was back in 2007 and I received something like £9k because a council was negligent and damaged a road surface.
They will not take on a case just to make a few quid from it, they're not permitted to by the conditional fee arrangement (used to be no win no fee) - for their insurance to be valid they need to demonstrate that there is a realistic or good chance of success. You can't go around prosecuting any old accident for anybody, that doesn't happen now. (I'm not a lawyer, just recounting what I was told). And you donlt need to pay them anything upfront.
The free option is bks isn't it, it might mean this chap doesn't make a claim and gets nothing and has to fix his own bike. That's not an option, that's the default do nothing position which a lazy b'stard might take.
So if anybody is involved in an incident which has been caused by somebody or something else, get professional advice and ignore the naysayers on t'internet who will talk you down and cost you money.
Except I didn't say to ignore it or not claim it !And again your response shows why he should contact them and ignore well intended internet based armchair lawyers. I came out well from my interaction with White Dalton, as did they. If I had ignored the advice to contact them and taken the view like yours that it would be difficult to claim or I was unlikely to receive very much then I'd have had to pay to replace all my kit, fix my bike and not receive money for a broken wrist. This was back in 2007 and I received something like £9k because a council was negligent and damaged a road surface.
They will not take on a case just to make a few quid from it, they're not permitted to by the conditional fee arrangement (used to be no win no fee) - for their insurance to be valid they need to demonstrate that there is a realistic or good chance of success. You can't go around prosecuting any old accident for anybody, that doesn't happen now. (I'm not a lawyer, just recounting what I was told). And you donlt need to pay them anything upfront.
The free option is b
ks isn't it, it might mean this chap doesn't make a claim and gets nothing and has to fix his own bike. That's not an option, that's the default do nothing position which a lazy b'stard might take.So if anybody is involved in an incident which has been caused by somebody or something else, get professional advice and ignore the naysayers on t'internet who will talk you down and cost you money.
I've pursued all my claims myself and simply pushed my insurers and I've been paid out every time - no solicitors required
My father has used solicitors on multiple occasions, he's won on all of them, including where he has sued previous solicitors for their incompetence and ridiculous billing
However for the hassle involved it isn't something I would recommend until you have exhausted all the other options
My sister is a solicitor, one of the top in her field, she still recommends only using solicitors as the last resort
Again your experience may be different
boyse7en said:
modellista said:
As far as his IAM status goes, he obviously missed the bit which says, "you must be able to stop in the distance you can see"!
That is for obstructions on your side of the road, not on the off chance some idiot coming the opposite way suddenly swerves across the road into youFunny how you ignored the bit about a parked Transit on the offside. In that context it's quite predictable that an approaching vehicle may be out of position and one should proceed with caution accordingly.
However, best wishes to the injured party, hopefully a swift and full recovery will ensue.
modellista said:
...If you mean a claim for compensation against the other driver, IANAL but I would have thought it would be essential to have footage of the accident on camera (or at the very least a timely forensic investigation of the crash site) to have any chance of claiming the other driver was at fault. Otherwise the other side can claim the rider was recklessly barrelling along at 100mph and it would be their word against his...
Whilst footage and other such evidence could certainly help, it is certainly not essential. Witness statements verified by statements of truth should discourage fictitious accounts, assuming the parties are properly advised as to the potential consequences (contempt of court). In significant claims it is quite common to get recon experts involved (where liability is disputed) who will assess the scene and bike and make speed calculations. But unless there are real complications with the recovery here, the cost of this would likely be prohibitive.
The fact the other driver stopped is potentially helpful, unless he says he only stopped as he saw a biker come off and wanted to help, rather than stopping as he knew his actions were a causative factor.
Gassing Station | Biker Banter | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff