Has the increase in EVs changed your riding style?
Discussion
Firstly it's not meant as an attack or to create argument, just out of genuine interest...
Apologies in advance for the long winded route to the question.
I am not a biker, push bikes as a kid is as far as I got so most of what I am about to say is from a place of ignorance.
My understanding is that as a motorbike etc approaches a queue of traffic say at a roundabout if it is a solid white line to the right of the car they are to join the queue, however if the line is broken and it is safe to do so then I assume they can effectively "overtake" the queue of traffic? Now I for one as a motorist have never had an issue with this so long as it is done in a respectful manner, e.g. not pushing through a gap that could be considered too small, doing it at a sensible speed and trying where possible to do so with the car drivers awareness etc.
The main reason I have never had an issue with this and I try to be a little considerate in traffic to leave room is that I acknowledge as a general rule it is not the biker that is holding up my progress and they are typically quicker away from the line making joining at roundabouts, pulling on to a road etc more efficient (they can make use of more opportunities).
Now for the reason I'm writing the post and why it struck me as you all as the biking community must be changing the way you ride... I drive an Electric car, not a particularly fast one in the grand scheme of things, but there is no denying the impact instant torque has to 30mph. I was approaching a roundabout 3 lanes, left to filter left, middle to go straight on/around, right to go around. As I approached the line I noticed a commuter scooter in the right lane, they had slowly been muscling their way forwards. We left at the same time in a gap that probably I wouldn't have attempted in a normal ICE car, but was still plenty big enough. Strangely the line to enter the roundabout is a little odd so I started behind the scooters line of sight. This is where I became lucky, the scooter obviously hadn't twigged I'd be next to them and started to cut across to go straight on, but quickly realised there was a car beside them and altered route to go round the roundabout.
Nothing bad happened and I must admit they noticed before I did that we were heading toward an incident, but it did raise the interesting (for me) question around the increase in electric cars especially where say a Tesla is probably near silent through a helmet and likely equally as quick off the line as most people on two wheels.
Has your riding style changed?
I assume the whole queue thing is something that isn't taught but just accepted as a benefit of bike riding and maybe I have jumped to the conclusion that people doing this are mostly relaxed that they can do so relatively safely given past experience, but is this still the case? I know I find other road users at roundabouts waiting to join from the next entrance to my left often don't think I will try for a gap and are surprised to seem me do so.
Maybe it's me at fault for now having a different driving style (although I am sure I did nothing wrong), but instances such as this must be on the increase, maybe this is the wrong section of the forum, but what I was really interested in is what experienced bikers, like I am sure some of yourselves are, think of in my opinion the increased threat EV's pose to what I would consider typical/traditional road behaviour for motorbikes?
Apologies in advance for the long winded route to the question.
I am not a biker, push bikes as a kid is as far as I got so most of what I am about to say is from a place of ignorance.
My understanding is that as a motorbike etc approaches a queue of traffic say at a roundabout if it is a solid white line to the right of the car they are to join the queue, however if the line is broken and it is safe to do so then I assume they can effectively "overtake" the queue of traffic? Now I for one as a motorist have never had an issue with this so long as it is done in a respectful manner, e.g. not pushing through a gap that could be considered too small, doing it at a sensible speed and trying where possible to do so with the car drivers awareness etc.
The main reason I have never had an issue with this and I try to be a little considerate in traffic to leave room is that I acknowledge as a general rule it is not the biker that is holding up my progress and they are typically quicker away from the line making joining at roundabouts, pulling on to a road etc more efficient (they can make use of more opportunities).
Now for the reason I'm writing the post and why it struck me as you all as the biking community must be changing the way you ride... I drive an Electric car, not a particularly fast one in the grand scheme of things, but there is no denying the impact instant torque has to 30mph. I was approaching a roundabout 3 lanes, left to filter left, middle to go straight on/around, right to go around. As I approached the line I noticed a commuter scooter in the right lane, they had slowly been muscling their way forwards. We left at the same time in a gap that probably I wouldn't have attempted in a normal ICE car, but was still plenty big enough. Strangely the line to enter the roundabout is a little odd so I started behind the scooters line of sight. This is where I became lucky, the scooter obviously hadn't twigged I'd be next to them and started to cut across to go straight on, but quickly realised there was a car beside them and altered route to go round the roundabout.
Nothing bad happened and I must admit they noticed before I did that we were heading toward an incident, but it did raise the interesting (for me) question around the increase in electric cars especially where say a Tesla is probably near silent through a helmet and likely equally as quick off the line as most people on two wheels.
Has your riding style changed?
I assume the whole queue thing is something that isn't taught but just accepted as a benefit of bike riding and maybe I have jumped to the conclusion that people doing this are mostly relaxed that they can do so relatively safely given past experience, but is this still the case? I know I find other road users at roundabouts waiting to join from the next entrance to my left often don't think I will try for a gap and are surprised to seem me do so.
Maybe it's me at fault for now having a different driving style (although I am sure I did nothing wrong), but instances such as this must be on the increase, maybe this is the wrong section of the forum, but what I was really interested in is what experienced bikers, like I am sure some of yourselves are, think of in my opinion the increased threat EV's pose to what I would consider typical/traditional road behaviour for motorbikes?
Can I assume from the short answers that I have said something daft? Trying to mitigate my ignorance a little is the "no" genuinely because you feel there is no difference in riding style (maybe the wrong choice of word) required and that you were always aware of your surroundings irrespective of the type of vehicles on the road?
As a pedestrian I have changed the way I walk around a carpark, conscious I have to be aware in a different manner now. Maybe I was just complacent before relying too much on my hearing.
As a pedestrian I have changed the way I walk around a carpark, conscious I have to be aware in a different manner now. Maybe I was just complacent before relying too much on my hearing.
Yes. I've always ridden fast bikes. Twenty years ago I rarely looked in my rear view. Pulling away from the lights or from stationary I would be so far away from anything other than a bike there was little point looking in the rear view.
If it was a bike keeping pace with you, you would easily hear it. If you pulled up next to a piece of car exotica, you would monitor it in the rear view just in case but usually you would have someone driving it that knew what they were doing, and most of the time if an exotic car was trying to keep up with you, again you would hear it.
Trouble is that now the thing you pull up against can look like a ten tonne suv and still it would have enough performance to be on your tail, and you won't hear it unless you are looking for it. Lastly the standard of people who are capable of making an EV perform is anyfrickingone.
So yes it has changed me. I don't want two tonnes of suv following on my tail when accelerating and especially not when there is a corner ahead. So I am much more likely to give them space, lots of space. Unfortunately, most EV owners want to show off their one trick pony when they get a chance.
If it was a bike keeping pace with you, you would easily hear it. If you pulled up next to a piece of car exotica, you would monitor it in the rear view just in case but usually you would have someone driving it that knew what they were doing, and most of the time if an exotic car was trying to keep up with you, again you would hear it.
Trouble is that now the thing you pull up against can look like a ten tonne suv and still it would have enough performance to be on your tail, and you won't hear it unless you are looking for it. Lastly the standard of people who are capable of making an EV perform is anyfrickingone.
So yes it has changed me. I don't want two tonnes of suv following on my tail when accelerating and especially not when there is a corner ahead. So I am much more likely to give them space, lots of space. Unfortunately, most EV owners want to show off their one trick pony when they get a chance.
To qualify my statement, I’ve always assumed anyone in a car/van/whatever could cause me to have an accident by doing something crazy is on their phone, eating an apple or generally not concentrating.
Thus I look to leave as much clear space between them and I as possible by making progress where it’s safe, or by hanging back and observing.
So no, EVs haven’t changed anything. People are always going to use the performance of their vehicles inappropriately, whether Greta Thunberg approves or not.
Thus I look to leave as much clear space between them and I as possible by making progress where it’s safe, or by hanging back and observing.
So no, EVs haven’t changed anything. People are always going to use the performance of their vehicles inappropriately, whether Greta Thunberg approves or not.
julian64 said:
Yes. I've always ridden fast bikes. Twenty years ago I rarely looked in my rear view. Pulling away from the lights or from stationary I would be so far away from anything other than a bike there was little point looking in the rear view.
If it was a bike keeping pace with you, you would easily hear it. If you pulled up next to a piece of car exotica, you would monitor it in the rear view just in case but usually you would have someone driving it that knew what they were doing, and most of the time if an exotic car was trying to keep up with you, again you would hear it.
Trouble is that now the thing you pull up against can look like a ten tonne suv and still it would have enough performance to be on your tail, and you won't hear it unless you are looking for it. Lastly the standard of people who are capable of making an EV perform is anyfrickingone.
So yes it has changed me. I don't want two tonnes of suv following on my tail when accelerating and especially not when there is a corner ahead. So I am much more likely to give them space, lots of space. Unfortunately, most EV owners want to show off their one trick pony when they get a chance.
I sort of agree with the above, but it's kind of an extension of what's been happening progressively over the last 20 years or more, there are more, quicker cars about and it gets easier for a car to stick behind me and be too close at the next hazard (bend, poor surface etc), which they may not see as a hazard in the same way as I do now I'm getting old.If it was a bike keeping pace with you, you would easily hear it. If you pulled up next to a piece of car exotica, you would monitor it in the rear view just in case but usually you would have someone driving it that knew what they were doing, and most of the time if an exotic car was trying to keep up with you, again you would hear it.
Trouble is that now the thing you pull up against can look like a ten tonne suv and still it would have enough performance to be on your tail, and you won't hear it unless you are looking for it. Lastly the standard of people who are capable of making an EV perform is anyfrickingone.
So yes it has changed me. I don't want two tonnes of suv following on my tail when accelerating and especially not when there is a corner ahead. So I am much more likely to give them space, lots of space. Unfortunately, most EV owners want to show off their one trick pony when they get a chance.
Cars can do more, and I feel I can get away with less due to getting sensible and more cameras, worse consequences of getting nicked etc.
Out here in the sticks, some EV drivers want to show off their acceleration, others drive horribly slowly because they haven't seen a charger for 20 miles or something.
Thank you for the more detailed responses. Last night really did highlight to me to be more aware as well, it has to be reciprocal.
The performance of EV's can be surprising and there was no intent on my part to do it for the sake of showing off/making a point etc, we were both in wholly separate lanes just making use of a smaller than normal break in the traffic to enter the roundabout.
Next time I will be more aware, as I say I was lucky they noticed me there before changing lanes as I was not expecting them to, there was no signal etc, I was slow to react/acknowledge.
I agree with the sentiment to provide more room though and it's something I typically practice as it doesn't matter what you are in or on there is no reliable way to forecast others actions (I don't want to hit a biker or anything else for that matter).
The performance of EV's can be surprising and there was no intent on my part to do it for the sake of showing off/making a point etc, we were both in wholly separate lanes just making use of a smaller than normal break in the traffic to enter the roundabout.
Next time I will be more aware, as I say I was lucky they noticed me there before changing lanes as I was not expecting them to, there was no signal etc, I was slow to react/acknowledge.
I agree with the sentiment to provide more room though and it's something I typically practice as it doesn't matter what you are in or on there is no reliable way to forecast others actions (I don't want to hit a biker or anything else for that matter).
As per the responses above ... no!
In the situation you describe I'd suggest that the fact you were in an EV was coincidental. Getting caught because there is now a vehicle in a space that the rider thought was "empty" is, sadly, a not uncommon occurrence and definitely not reserved for EVs.
Riders are taught to do a "Lifesaver", which is a look over the shoulder of the direction the bike is about to move, for exactly this reason. Life savers have been taught for as long as I've been riding, and that's well before EVs were "a thing".
In the situation you describe I'd suggest that the fact you were in an EV was coincidental. Getting caught because there is now a vehicle in a space that the rider thought was "empty" is, sadly, a not uncommon occurrence and definitely not reserved for EVs.
Riders are taught to do a "Lifesaver", which is a look over the shoulder of the direction the bike is about to move, for exactly this reason. Life savers have been taught for as long as I've been riding, and that's well before EVs were "a thing".
black-k1 said:
As per the responses above ... no!
In the situation you describe I'd suggest that the fact you were in an EV was coincidental. Getting caught because there is now a vehicle in a space that the rider thought was "empty" is, sadly, a not uncommon occurrence and definitely not reserved for EVs.
Riders are taught to do a "Lifesaver", which is a look over the shoulder of the direction the bike is about to move, for exactly this reason. Life savers have been taught for as long as I've been riding, and that's well before EVs were "a thing".
I'm sure we were taught the same in our Primary School Cycling Proficiency Test.In the situation you describe I'd suggest that the fact you were in an EV was coincidental. Getting caught because there is now a vehicle in a space that the rider thought was "empty" is, sadly, a not uncommon occurrence and definitely not reserved for EVs.
Riders are taught to do a "Lifesaver", which is a look over the shoulder of the direction the bike is about to move, for exactly this reason. Life savers have been taught for as long as I've been riding, and that's well before EVs were "a thing".
But cyclists/people on pushbikes never seem to look back these days?
snagzie said:
TheInternet said:
EVs tend to be very slow IME.
This is my experience too. Even expensive teslas, never see them getting ragged like in 0-60/drag videos.To answer the OP I don't think EVs change anything about riding, but I think all the in-car distractions added over the past couple of decades have made urban driving behaviour more erratic and mistake prone so I'm more circumspect in general, particularly when filtering, as many drivers have enough of a hard time seeing what they expect, never mind the (to them) unusual.
Edited by hiccy18 on Tuesday 1st November 17:35
Yes actually.
At traffic lights I would use the filter lane to go straight on, because even on my lowly C1 scooter, I was always quickest out of the blocks.
But if it's an EV next to me, I am cautious due to the casually fast step off that these things have.
Too much risk involved in taking liberties around these things.
(I actually suspect that EV are rear-ending more ICE Cars due to their rapid launch ability)
At traffic lights I would use the filter lane to go straight on, because even on my lowly C1 scooter, I was always quickest out of the blocks.
But if it's an EV next to me, I am cautious due to the casually fast step off that these things have.
Too much risk involved in taking liberties around these things.
(I actually suspect that EV are rear-ending more ICE Cars due to their rapid launch ability)
Thee are two types of EVs and EV drivers relevant yo this discussion….
The tight arse mega milers driving Nissan leafs and trying to eeeek every possible mile out of their charge and snail away to a max 48moh….
And the mega capable Evs that are s
t off a shovel fast and effectively ‘free’ to drive for many of the owners due yo work charging or cheap electric.
I was in my sporty red convertible the other day at a junction with lights, a high end EV next to me, I didn’t even notice it until the lights change and it launched forward at speeds that would cause my car to shriek and wheel spin like a race car. .
There was no fuss, it was doing 35mph (est) before it crossed the junction and was up to about 55mph within a few more yards with barely any audible fuss. A fast bike would not have put down the pace within such a small space.
All in town, 30mph limit is probably too fast. It was mental and I assume the driver was some grosser that has a hard on for embarrassing expensive ice.
The tight arse mega milers driving Nissan leafs and trying to eeeek every possible mile out of their charge and snail away to a max 48moh….
And the mega capable Evs that are s
t off a shovel fast and effectively ‘free’ to drive for many of the owners due yo work charging or cheap electric.I was in my sporty red convertible the other day at a junction with lights, a high end EV next to me, I didn’t even notice it until the lights change and it launched forward at speeds that would cause my car to shriek and wheel spin like a race car. .
There was no fuss, it was doing 35mph (est) before it crossed the junction and was up to about 55mph within a few more yards with barely any audible fuss. A fast bike would not have put down the pace within such a small space.
All in town, 30mph limit is probably too fast. It was mental and I assume the driver was some grosser that has a hard on for embarrassing expensive ice.
Hasn't changed the way I ride, no, but I'm conscious that EVs are quick and it's very easy to use their low-down performance. To be honest though, if someone (ICE or EV) wants to pull away rapidly I'm not going to try to race them into a closing gap, as there will be a nice big space behind them if we've both pulled away smartly.
FWIW I drive a BMW i3, which isn't very fast but not very slow either (it's the electric-only version so under 7 seconds to 60) - however it's completely lag-free so super-responsive from a standstill, in a way that's noticeable when driving back to back with ICE cars, even ICE cars with far more power. That responsiveness (plus the quirky design etc) made me buy it in the first place.
That said, I don't agree with Julian above, quite the contrary, as per Snagzie and TheInternet - I don't see EVs being driven in a different way to ICE cars and SUVs - I regularly see performance (and non-performance) ICE cars being driven quickly when I'm out and above, but can't remember ever seeing any EV doing the same. I'm not sure the majority of EV buyers are that interested in how fast their car is, to be honest - right tool for the job/newness/fashion/financial incentives/green credentials/love for Elon (or many other options) drive sales, rather than performance, I'd say.
FWIW I drive a BMW i3, which isn't very fast but not very slow either (it's the electric-only version so under 7 seconds to 60) - however it's completely lag-free so super-responsive from a standstill, in a way that's noticeable when driving back to back with ICE cars, even ICE cars with far more power. That responsiveness (plus the quirky design etc) made me buy it in the first place.
That said, I don't agree with Julian above, quite the contrary, as per Snagzie and TheInternet - I don't see EVs being driven in a different way to ICE cars and SUVs - I regularly see performance (and non-performance) ICE cars being driven quickly when I'm out and above, but can't remember ever seeing any EV doing the same. I'm not sure the majority of EV buyers are that interested in how fast their car is, to be honest - right tool for the job/newness/fashion/financial incentives/green credentials/love for Elon (or many other options) drive sales, rather than performance, I'd say.
Edited by _Neal_ on Tuesday 1st November 19:49
It's a good question and would definitely be worth thinking about if I was on a moped. But EVs are relatively rare and the chances of the driver actually booting it off the line even rarer.
I ride a fast bike and wouldn't treat a Tesla or similar any different, probably be more inclined to get to the front to try and initiate a good ol' fashion drag race.
I ride a fast bike and wouldn't treat a Tesla or similar any different, probably be more inclined to get to the front to try and initiate a good ol' fashion drag race.
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