Insurance whinge
Discussion
Sold my 2016 MT09 and bought a 2018 Z650 because I just fancied a change after owning the MT09 for over 4 years.
I am insured with Bennetts so log in to their website but I cannot do the change on there so have to ring them up, they must have employed someone else now so I only had to wait 18 minutes until I got through. Told them about the change of bike and I thought there would be a small reduction in the cost. Instead it cost me £32 for the admin charge and then another £34 on the insurance cost for the remaining 8 months.
So changing from a 115 bhp bike to a 67bhp bike cost me £66 in total , I would have been better off cancelling the original insurance and hitting the compare sites.
How on earth do they calculate premiums? There seems to be no logic at all to their risk calculations.
I am insured with Bennetts so log in to their website but I cannot do the change on there so have to ring them up, they must have employed someone else now so I only had to wait 18 minutes until I got through. Told them about the change of bike and I thought there would be a small reduction in the cost. Instead it cost me £32 for the admin charge and then another £34 on the insurance cost for the remaining 8 months.
So changing from a 115 bhp bike to a 67bhp bike cost me £66 in total , I would have been better off cancelling the original insurance and hitting the compare sites.
How on earth do they calculate premiums? There seems to be no logic at all to their risk calculations.
Onelastattempt said:
Sold my 2016 MT09 and bought a 2018 Z650 because I just fancied a change after owning the MT09 for over 4 years.
I am insured with Bennetts so log in to their website but I cannot do the change on there so have to ring them up, they must have employed someone else now so I only had to wait 18 minutes until I got through. Told them about the change of bike and I thought there would be a small reduction in the cost. Instead it cost me £32 for the admin charge and then another £34 on the insurance cost for the remaining 8 months.
So changing from a 115 bhp bike to a 67bhp bike cost me £66 in total , I would have been better off cancelling the original insurance and hitting the compare sites.
How on earth do they calculate premiums? There seems to be no logic at all to their risk calculations.
As it happens, and unsurprisingly, it’s a lot more logical than just googling the power of the engines. I am insured with Bennetts so log in to their website but I cannot do the change on there so have to ring them up, they must have employed someone else now so I only had to wait 18 minutes until I got through. Told them about the change of bike and I thought there would be a small reduction in the cost. Instead it cost me £32 for the admin charge and then another £34 on the insurance cost for the remaining 8 months.
So changing from a 115 bhp bike to a 67bhp bike cost me £66 in total , I would have been better off cancelling the original insurance and hitting the compare sites.
How on earth do they calculate premiums? There seems to be no logic at all to their risk calculations.
Biker9090 said:
More fool anyone who pays the admin charge.
I've made loads of changes over the years and not once have I ended up paying it. Hastings ended up giving me £180 a few months ago when I kicked up a stink about their charges (made redundant and it put the cost up 100).
Eh? You told them mid-policy you were made redundant? Why?I've made loads of changes over the years and not once have I ended up paying it. Hastings ended up giving me £180 a few months ago when I kicked up a stink about their charges (made redundant and it put the cost up 100).
I'm going to jump on the insurance company whinge, but not about charges (yet!)
After nearly a month after a 3rd party fault accident I've finally been told that my bike is going to be a CAT N write off - the 3rd party insurance whose client has already admitted full responsibility have now claimed my bike is worth £2k less than it actually is. I've said no to this and supplied my insurance with 13 current listings for my bike model, similiar year, condition, and as close as possible mileage - with bikes 5 years older than mine, worse condition and 10-15k less miles being about £1.5k above their valuation. I'm not 100% sure on what happens next, and the woman on the phone didnt seem to really know either as she's covering the profile for someone out of the office for a few days, but she did say it could potentially be upto 9 months before its settled which I think is crazy.
Just annoyed as I've insured it for an appropriate realistic value and submitted pictures to support that at the time, yet I'm now going to have to jump through the arseache to try to get an appropriate settlement from the 3rd party that enables me to get a replacement that takes me to 'as was' just prior to the accident rather than be £2k out of bloody pocket!
The only good thing to come from the phonecall today is that they have offered a fair price on the salvage but as the cost to repair isn't viable at all as the front is pretty stuffed up what I'm thinking is to get a replacement (providing they up their settlement offer to or much closer to the actual value it was insured for) and strip the parts I want off of the salvage (exhaust slip ons and other modifications that are undamaged) to save me rebuying them for the replacement bike.
Then there is the faff with the other side of the insurance claim for all my gear, my helmet , extortionate train fairs, and my lovely throbbing purple .... leg
- well, its more greeny-yellow now but still on crutches for another 3-4 weeks whilst the ligament sticks itself back together and I hopefully start getting some feeling below the knee again soon!
After nearly a month after a 3rd party fault accident I've finally been told that my bike is going to be a CAT N write off - the 3rd party insurance whose client has already admitted full responsibility have now claimed my bike is worth £2k less than it actually is. I've said no to this and supplied my insurance with 13 current listings for my bike model, similiar year, condition, and as close as possible mileage - with bikes 5 years older than mine, worse condition and 10-15k less miles being about £1.5k above their valuation. I'm not 100% sure on what happens next, and the woman on the phone didnt seem to really know either as she's covering the profile for someone out of the office for a few days, but she did say it could potentially be upto 9 months before its settled which I think is crazy.
Just annoyed as I've insured it for an appropriate realistic value and submitted pictures to support that at the time, yet I'm now going to have to jump through the arseache to try to get an appropriate settlement from the 3rd party that enables me to get a replacement that takes me to 'as was' just prior to the accident rather than be £2k out of bloody pocket!
The only good thing to come from the phonecall today is that they have offered a fair price on the salvage but as the cost to repair isn't viable at all as the front is pretty stuffed up what I'm thinking is to get a replacement (providing they up their settlement offer to or much closer to the actual value it was insured for) and strip the parts I want off of the salvage (exhaust slip ons and other modifications that are undamaged) to save me rebuying them for the replacement bike.
Then there is the faff with the other side of the insurance claim for all my gear, my helmet , extortionate train fairs, and my lovely throbbing purple .... leg
- well, its more greeny-yellow now but still on crutches for another 3-4 weeks whilst the ligament sticks itself back together and I hopefully start getting some feeling below the knee again soon!Good luck DirtyHarley...
I was involved in a RTC last August. Third party didn't bother stopping when joining a roundabout, resulting in a dented drivers door for them and a broken R6 for me
I got a reasonable payout when the bike was written off, but I'm still waiting for the other side of things to be sorted out
14 months and counting
I was involved in a RTC last August. Third party didn't bother stopping when joining a roundabout, resulting in a dented drivers door for them and a broken R6 for me
I got a reasonable payout when the bike was written off, but I'm still waiting for the other side of things to be sorted out
14 months and countingDirtyHarley said:
I'm going to jump on the insurance company whinge, but not about charges (yet!)
After nearly a month after a 3rd party fault accident I've finally been told that my bike is going to be a CAT N write off - the 3rd party insurance whose client has already admitted full responsibility have now claimed my bike is worth £2k less than it actually is. I've said no to this and supplied my insurance with 13 current listings for my bike model, similiar year, condition, and as close as possible mileage - with bikes 5 years older than mine, worse condition and 10-15k less miles being about £1.5k above their valuation. I'm not 100% sure on what happens next, and the woman on the phone didnt seem to really know either as she's covering the profile for someone out of the office for a few days, but she did say it could potentially be upto 9 months before its settled which I think is crazy.
Just annoyed as I've insured it for an appropriate realistic value and submitted pictures to support that at the time, yet I'm now going to have to jump through the arseache to try to get an appropriate settlement from the 3rd party that enables me to get a replacement that takes me to 'as was' just prior to the accident rather than be £2k out of bloody pocket!
The only good thing to come from the phonecall today is that they have offered a fair price on the salvage but as the cost to repair isn't viable at all as the front is pretty stuffed up what I'm thinking is to get a replacement (providing they up their settlement offer to or much closer to the actual value it was insured for) and strip the parts I want off of the salvage (exhaust slip ons and other modifications that are undamaged) to save me rebuying them for the replacement bike.
Then there is the faff with the other side of the insurance claim for all my gear, my helmet , extortionate train fairs, and my lovely throbbing purple .... leg - well, its more greeny-yellow now but still on crutches for another 3-4 weeks whilst the ligament sticks itself back together and I hopefully start getting some feeling below the knee again soon!
When I had similar (with my wife's car) I managed to speak to the assessor directly and he agreed immediately with my higher valuationsAfter nearly a month after a 3rd party fault accident I've finally been told that my bike is going to be a CAT N write off - the 3rd party insurance whose client has already admitted full responsibility have now claimed my bike is worth £2k less than it actually is. I've said no to this and supplied my insurance with 13 current listings for my bike model, similiar year, condition, and as close as possible mileage - with bikes 5 years older than mine, worse condition and 10-15k less miles being about £1.5k above their valuation. I'm not 100% sure on what happens next, and the woman on the phone didnt seem to really know either as she's covering the profile for someone out of the office for a few days, but she did say it could potentially be upto 9 months before its settled which I think is crazy.
Just annoyed as I've insured it for an appropriate realistic value and submitted pictures to support that at the time, yet I'm now going to have to jump through the arseache to try to get an appropriate settlement from the 3rd party that enables me to get a replacement that takes me to 'as was' just prior to the accident rather than be £2k out of bloody pocket!
The only good thing to come from the phonecall today is that they have offered a fair price on the salvage but as the cost to repair isn't viable at all as the front is pretty stuffed up what I'm thinking is to get a replacement (providing they up their settlement offer to or much closer to the actual value it was insured for) and strip the parts I want off of the salvage (exhaust slip ons and other modifications that are undamaged) to save me rebuying them for the replacement bike.
Then there is the faff with the other side of the insurance claim for all my gear, my helmet , extortionate train fairs, and my lovely throbbing purple .... leg
- well, its more greeny-yellow now but still on crutches for another 3-4 weeks whilst the ligament sticks itself back together and I hopefully start getting some feeling below the knee again soon!The key is to be the biggest pain in the arse by calling everyday and they just want to get rid of you
I use the tactic of if you're saying I can get an Audi A6 for £5k I'll give you £50k and you can buy me 10 because it would be a profitable business !
And threaten using the ombudsman
Dingu said:
Onelastattempt said:
Sold my 2016 MT09 and bought a 2018 Z650 because I just fancied a change after owning the MT09 for over 4 years.
I am insured with Bennetts so log in to their website but I cannot do the change on there so have to ring them up, they must have employed someone else now so I only had to wait 18 minutes until I got through. Told them about the change of bike and I thought there would be a small reduction in the cost. Instead it cost me £32 for the admin charge and then another £34 on the insurance cost for the remaining 8 months.
So changing from a 115 bhp bike to a 67bhp bike cost me £66 in total , I would have been better off cancelling the original insurance and hitting the compare sites.
How on earth do they calculate premiums? There seems to be no logic at all to their risk calculations.
As it happens, and unsurprisingly, it’s a lot more logical than just googling the power of the engines. I am insured with Bennetts so log in to their website but I cannot do the change on there so have to ring them up, they must have employed someone else now so I only had to wait 18 minutes until I got through. Told them about the change of bike and I thought there would be a small reduction in the cost. Instead it cost me £32 for the admin charge and then another £34 on the insurance cost for the remaining 8 months.
So changing from a 115 bhp bike to a 67bhp bike cost me £66 in total , I would have been better off cancelling the original insurance and hitting the compare sites.
How on earth do they calculate premiums? There seems to be no logic at all to their risk calculations.
Biker9090 said:
More fool anyone who pays the admin charge.
I've made loads of changes over the years and not once have I ended up paying it. Hastings ended up giving me £180 a few months ago when I kicked up a stink about their charges (made redundant and it put the cost up 100).
How did you get them to cancel the admin charge ?I've made loads of changes over the years and not once have I ended up paying it. Hastings ended up giving me £180 a few months ago when I kicked up a stink about their charges (made redundant and it put the cost up 100).
I tend not to get annoyed with the person on the other end of the phone as it is not their fault.
iidentifyaswoke said:
Biker9090 said:
More fool anyone who pays the admin charge.
I've made loads of changes over the years and not once have I ended up paying it. Hastings ended up giving me £180 a few months ago when I kicked up a stink about their charges (made redundant and it put the cost up 100).
Eh? You told them mid-policy you were made redundant? Why?I've made loads of changes over the years and not once have I ended up paying it. Hastings ended up giving me £180 a few months ago when I kicked up a stink about their charges (made redundant and it put the cost up 100).
I retired in May this year, renewed my car insurance in August, updated my details to say less mileage and no more commuting into that s
thole that is Bradford and my car insurance went up by £18, not much really but just shows how flawed the risk assessments are.Onelastattempt said:
OK, please explain to me why a change of bike to a less powerful one with no other changes makes the premium go up. Same security, same mileage and about the same value as well.
Because in their eyes/experience more people crash the bike you now have, and/or that bike is stolen more hence a bigger risk.It's not about the power.
At least that was the reason given as to why I was quoted 3 times the insurance price for my mini cooper S than my RS6 (modified).. because.. in their words - all the little precious kids get minis for their birthdays and smash them up.. huge risk for us.. RS6's apparently get crashed less...
Onelastattempt said:
This is just another logic failure on the risk assessments that insurers use, not working, no commuting, less mileage, put the premium up!
I retired in May this year, renewed my car insurance in August, updated my details to say less mileage and no more commuting into that sthole that is Bradford and my car insurance went up by £18, not much really but just shows how flawed the risk assessments are.
The logic failure is assuming that the risk assessment applies only to you. It doesn't.I retired in May this year, renewed my car insurance in August, updated my details to say less mileage and no more commuting into that s
thole that is Bradford and my car insurance went up by £18, not much really but just shows how flawed the risk assessments are.Onelastattempt said:
Dingu said:
Onelastattempt said:
Sold my 2016 MT09 and bought a 2018 Z650 because I just fancied a change after owning the MT09 for over 4 years.
I am insured with Bennetts so log in to their website but I cannot do the change on there so have to ring them up, they must have employed someone else now so I only had to wait 18 minutes until I got through. Told them about the change of bike and I thought there would be a small reduction in the cost. Instead it cost me £32 for the admin charge and then another £34 on the insurance cost for the remaining 8 months.
So changing from a 115 bhp bike to a 67bhp bike cost me £66 in total , I would have been better off cancelling the original insurance and hitting the compare sites.
How on earth do they calculate premiums? There seems to be no logic at all to their risk calculations.
As it happens, and unsurprisingly, it’s a lot more logical than just googling the power of the engines. I am insured with Bennetts so log in to their website but I cannot do the change on there so have to ring them up, they must have employed someone else now so I only had to wait 18 minutes until I got through. Told them about the change of bike and I thought there would be a small reduction in the cost. Instead it cost me £32 for the admin charge and then another £34 on the insurance cost for the remaining 8 months.
So changing from a 115 bhp bike to a 67bhp bike cost me £66 in total , I would have been better off cancelling the original insurance and hitting the compare sites.
How on earth do they calculate premiums? There seems to be no logic at all to their risk calculations.
The question is how likely do they think a claim is for someone of your general profile with that vehicle. If their information shows that you are more likely to claim then the cost goes up, and vice versa. It’s not a personal decision to look at you. The new bike you have bought might be ridden by newer riders, stolen more or just crashed more often etc. This alters the risk profile.
Additionally, certainly with cars, people crash cars they have recently bought much more than ones they have owned for a longer time. If that carries to bikes that will be a factor also.
To touch on what another poster said, cars like a Ferrari are cheap to insure on the whole. Their owners are careful and look after them. The fact a Ford fiesta probably costs more to insure isn’t absurd as it has a fraction of the power. It’s correct based on the expected likelihood of a claim.
ETA: are you saying that if you were to change bike again in the future, to something with say double the power, and the insurance stats said it was a lower risk you would rather be charged more arbitrarily because it’s more logical to you?
Edited by Dingu on Thursday 6th October 10:28
Cost of spare parts also comes into it. Unlike us, Insurers have to factor in using OEM parts at an approved repairer - not Wemoto at your local place.
I do however think it is generally far too expensive and like a lot of countries we should move to getting a basic 3rd party insurance as part of your road tax.
I do however think it is generally far too expensive and like a lot of countries we should move to getting a basic 3rd party insurance as part of your road tax.
Onelastattempt said:
How did you get them to cancel the admin charge ?
I tend not to get annoyed with the person on the other end of the phone as it is not their fault.
I just ask - I don't get annoyed, it's best to be friendly if you're asking for a favourI tend not to get annoyed with the person on the other end of the phone as it is not their fault.
IIRC with Nash their sign off question was "Were you happy with the service you received today"
I said I wasn't really as I thought it was too expensive
"Would you be happier if I refunded you some money"
Er YES
"Ok how does £50 sound"
Great thanks
DirtyHarley said:
I'm going to jump on the insurance company whinge, but not about charges (yet!)
After nearly a month after a 3rd party fault accident I've finally been told that my bike is going to be a CAT N write off - the 3rd party insurance whose client has already admitted full responsibility have now claimed my bike is worth £2k less than it actually is. I've said no to this and supplied my insurance with 13 current listings for my bike model, similiar year, condition, and as close as possible mileage - with bikes 5 years older than mine, worse condition and 10-15k less miles being about £1.5k above their valuation. I'm not 100% sure on what happens next, and the woman on the phone didnt seem to really know either as she's covering the profile for someone out of the office for a few days, but she did say it could potentially be upto 9 months before its settled which I think is crazy.
Just annoyed as I've insured it for an appropriate realistic value and submitted pictures to support that at the time, yet I'm now going to have to jump through the arseache to try to get an appropriate settlement from the 3rd party that enables me to get a replacement that takes me to 'as was' just prior to the accident rather than be £2k out of bloody pocket!
The only good thing to come from the phonecall today is that they have offered a fair price on the salvage but as the cost to repair isn't viable at all as the front is pretty stuffed up what I'm thinking is to get a replacement (providing they up their settlement offer to or much closer to the actual value it was insured for) and strip the parts I want off of the salvage (exhaust slip ons and other modifications that are undamaged) to save me rebuying them for the replacement bike.
Then there is the faff with the other side of the insurance claim for all my gear, my helmet , extortionate train fairs, and my lovely throbbing purple .... leg - well, its more greeny-yellow now but still on crutches for another 3-4 weeks whilst the ligament sticks itself back together and I hopefully start getting some feeling below the knee again soon!
Send them an email via CEO EMAIL . com and label it a FOS reportable complaint. Detail how you're not happy with the service etc, say you'll be submitting a subject access request and will be pursuing the complaint all the way to the Ombudsman (this costs them at least £500 every time one is submitted regardless of whether or not you're successful). Want any help with it then PM me - i've done quite a few of these and have been successful for those involved. After nearly a month after a 3rd party fault accident I've finally been told that my bike is going to be a CAT N write off - the 3rd party insurance whose client has already admitted full responsibility have now claimed my bike is worth £2k less than it actually is. I've said no to this and supplied my insurance with 13 current listings for my bike model, similiar year, condition, and as close as possible mileage - with bikes 5 years older than mine, worse condition and 10-15k less miles being about £1.5k above their valuation. I'm not 100% sure on what happens next, and the woman on the phone didnt seem to really know either as she's covering the profile for someone out of the office for a few days, but she did say it could potentially be upto 9 months before its settled which I think is crazy.
Just annoyed as I've insured it for an appropriate realistic value and submitted pictures to support that at the time, yet I'm now going to have to jump through the arseache to try to get an appropriate settlement from the 3rd party that enables me to get a replacement that takes me to 'as was' just prior to the accident rather than be £2k out of bloody pocket!
The only good thing to come from the phonecall today is that they have offered a fair price on the salvage but as the cost to repair isn't viable at all as the front is pretty stuffed up what I'm thinking is to get a replacement (providing they up their settlement offer to or much closer to the actual value it was insured for) and strip the parts I want off of the salvage (exhaust slip ons and other modifications that are undamaged) to save me rebuying them for the replacement bike.
Then there is the faff with the other side of the insurance claim for all my gear, my helmet , extortionate train fairs, and my lovely throbbing purple .... leg
- well, its more greeny-yellow now but still on crutches for another 3-4 weeks whilst the ligament sticks itself back together and I hopefully start getting some feeling below the knee again soon!Onelastattempt said:
How did you get them to cancel the admin charge ?
I tend not to get annoyed with the person on the other end of the phone as it is not their fault.
My attitude depends on their attitude. If they're acting like a I tend not to get annoyed with the person on the other end of the phone as it is not their fault.
then I'll be the bigger if they're nice then I'll be nice. Basically, I just refuse point blank to pay it. Pull the loyal customer card, say you're unhappy with the cost and feel that it's causing you financial disadvantage which should immediately trigger a FOS reportable complaint (that you'll be pursuing). Has worked every single time. It's particuarly easy around closing time as they don't want to stay on the phone logging a complex complaint. Biker9090 said:
Send them an email via CEO EMAIL . com and label it a FOS reportable complaint. Detail how you're not happy with the service etc, say you'll be submitting a subject access request and will be pursuing the complaint all the way to the Ombudsman (this costs them at least £500 every time one is submitted regardless of whether or not you're successful). Want any help with it then PM me - i've done quite a few of these and have been successful for those involved.
Clever.... you save the £50 admin fee and everyone's else's premium is inflated to cover your games and the cost to the insurer, assuming the above process works as you claimed. The fees although extortionate are clearly communicated at the point of taking the policy.....
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