Riding and Warfarin
Discussion
May be more to it than just warfarin and something unique to you perhaps - surgery ?
I've been on warfarin, clexane injections daily (pain in the bum
) and lately apixaban. Every time they tell me to take care but don't recall being prohibited from doing anything. Except smoking on warfarin but I was a stupid teenager and learned to balance the INR between fags and booze.
I've been on warfarin, clexane injections daily (pain in the bum
) and lately apixaban. Every time they tell me to take care but don't recall being prohibited from doing anything. Except smoking on warfarin but I was a stupid teenager and learned to balance the INR between fags and booze.PT1984 said:
bmwmike said:
May be more to it than just warfarin and something unique to you perhaps - surgery ?
Indeed! Mitral valve repair. If the repair can’t be made then it’s replacement with a mechanical valve. The mechanical valve means Warfarin for life. My grandfather was on warfarin for a bit, never stopped him riding. He just used to carry a card with him so in the event of an accident the paramedics knew to stop the red stuff spurting everywhere pretty sharpish. Luckily he never did.
I think eventually the doctors replaced his warfarin with half an aspirin, which apparently has similar blood thinning effects.
I think eventually the doctors replaced his warfarin with half an aspirin, which apparently has similar blood thinning effects.
You'll have to make your own risk assessment but after my accident in 2016, I had a subdural haematoma.
When discussing it with the doctors I was led to believe it's a fairly common occurrence / outcome of head injuries, due to the nature of the interior of the skull.
The blood vessels that run around the surface of your brain can quite easily be ruptured due to the ridges and what not on the inside of your noggin. Dread to think what the outcome would be like if you were on any kind of anticoagulant.
Of course, no one sets out to have an accident but...they do happen and interior bleeding isn't obvious / immediately diagnosable.
As above, you'll have to weigh up the potential risks...
When discussing it with the doctors I was led to believe it's a fairly common occurrence / outcome of head injuries, due to the nature of the interior of the skull.
The blood vessels that run around the surface of your brain can quite easily be ruptured due to the ridges and what not on the inside of your noggin. Dread to think what the outcome would be like if you were on any kind of anticoagulant.
Of course, no one sets out to have an accident but...they do happen and interior bleeding isn't obvious / immediately diagnosable.
As above, you'll have to weigh up the potential risks...
Edited by tafkattn on Thursday 1st September 00:17
No problem.
I should also add, head injuries (TBIs in particular) in general are weird. Aafter my accident, I was up and walking around and "felt fine". No ambulance was called at the time of the accident. I even picked up the bike (with help) and moved it off the road.
It wasn't until a few hours later that my missus and old man (while ferrying me home) noticed that I was something of a metaphorical goldfish. I was asking the same handful of questions over and over again. My short-term memory was shot, even now my only clear memories of that day are limited to the time before I left for a ride. Everything else in that 24hr period is VERY spotty.
Anyway, at this point, they decided to get me into A&E to be checked out. I can't remember how long I was waiting around but it wasn't until I had some sort of scan (CT I think) that they picked up the bleed.
My point is, that a good few hours had passed since the accident and the bleed was present from the outset. I don't know what the outcome would have been had I been on blood thinners.
Perhaps it would have been more immediately obvious that I was in a bad way and an ambulance called immediately. Alternatively, maybe the symptoms would have initially been the same (i.e. felt fine, no ambo) but then something more catastrophic occurred during the car ride home. It's impossible for me to say.
I mean, if you have an accident and suffer a compound fracture or some other open wound, it'd be fairly obvious straight away that you're pissing out claret and something needs to be done. But, as I mentioned earlier, internal injuries are not always immediately apparent.
Honestly, in your position, I'm not sure what I'd do. Every bone in my body would absolutely want to continue biking and to hell with the "what ifs" and potential consequences. But I think I'd always have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind about the new / added risk. In my experience, riding with that sort of niggle in the back of your mind is never a good idea.
Just my 2p.
I should also add, head injuries (TBIs in particular) in general are weird. Aafter my accident, I was up and walking around and "felt fine". No ambulance was called at the time of the accident. I even picked up the bike (with help) and moved it off the road.
It wasn't until a few hours later that my missus and old man (while ferrying me home) noticed that I was something of a metaphorical goldfish. I was asking the same handful of questions over and over again. My short-term memory was shot, even now my only clear memories of that day are limited to the time before I left for a ride. Everything else in that 24hr period is VERY spotty.
Anyway, at this point, they decided to get me into A&E to be checked out. I can't remember how long I was waiting around but it wasn't until I had some sort of scan (CT I think) that they picked up the bleed.
My point is, that a good few hours had passed since the accident and the bleed was present from the outset. I don't know what the outcome would have been had I been on blood thinners.
Perhaps it would have been more immediately obvious that I was in a bad way and an ambulance called immediately. Alternatively, maybe the symptoms would have initially been the same (i.e. felt fine, no ambo) but then something more catastrophic occurred during the car ride home. It's impossible for me to say.
I mean, if you have an accident and suffer a compound fracture or some other open wound, it'd be fairly obvious straight away that you're pissing out claret and something needs to be done. But, as I mentioned earlier, internal injuries are not always immediately apparent.
Honestly, in your position, I'm not sure what I'd do. Every bone in my body would absolutely want to continue biking and to hell with the "what ifs" and potential consequences. But I think I'd always have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind about the new / added risk. In my experience, riding with that sort of niggle in the back of your mind is never a good idea.
Just my 2p.
Again, thank you for sharing that experience. That must have been a tough few days for your wife. I’m new to riding and following lockdown I have found the freedom it gives somewhat liberating. Which is odd given I have travelled extensively for my job. And my home life is bliss. But I have always reminded myself of the risks riding presents every time I swing over my leg.
Not long to find out. Operation is at 09:00. Gulp.
Not long to find out. Operation is at 09:00. Gulp.
PT1984 said:
That must have been a tough few days for your wife.
One of the few memories I do have of that day is telling her, as soon as I saw her, that I'd have to go bike shopping as soon as possible. Pretty sure her frown could be seen from the moon. 
Generally speaking, I was ok. I had a busted finger that was pinned a few days later in outpatient surgery. I then promptly broke it again during a house move a few weeks later. That finger now has a fused knuckle so I can't completely close it / make a fist. Thankfully right hand and I'm a lefty.
My knee had a relatively big wound where the leathers had given way. That was washed and dressed.
The head injury and bleed were the most significant but, relatively speaking, pretty minor (compared to what could have been). My GCS assessments were all good from the outset in that I was responsive, and I could answer all the who / what / where / why / when questions etc.
The bleed didn't require surgery or anything. I was just monitored for a couple of days and then discharged. I can't remember if I was given any medication to help it along (other than opiate-based analgesics which bunged me up good and proper - but that's not a breakfast time story).
PT1984 said:
Not long to find out. Operation is at 09:00. Gulp.
Bit late but good luck with the surgery, fingers crossed for you. Let us know how it goes and what you decide about riding.Good luck with the op - I'm sure it'll be fine
I asked my wife (a nurse) out of interest, and she seems to think it's purely down to risk if you do have an 'off'.
Warfarin isn't a very strong anti-coagulant; there's some which really do turn your blood to water out there apparently - but it seems to just be a risk-aversion thing with no other reason you can't ride.
I have a friend with a congenital heart defect meaning he's on Warfarin for life - he doesn't ride a motorbike, but is an avid pedal-pusher and despite a few incidents over the years he's still alive and well.
I can imagine the same advice is given to cyclists (or at least I hope so...) with them being less protected and subject to the same braindead car drivers.
I asked my wife (a nurse) out of interest, and she seems to think it's purely down to risk if you do have an 'off'.
Warfarin isn't a very strong anti-coagulant; there's some which really do turn your blood to water out there apparently - but it seems to just be a risk-aversion thing with no other reason you can't ride.
I have a friend with a congenital heart defect meaning he's on Warfarin for life - he doesn't ride a motorbike, but is an avid pedal-pusher and despite a few incidents over the years he's still alive and well.
I can imagine the same advice is given to cyclists (or at least I hope so...) with them being less protected and subject to the same braindead car drivers.
tafkattn said:
PT1984 said:
Not long to find out. Operation is at 09:00. Gulp.
Bit late but good luck with the surgery, fingers crossed for you. Let us know how it goes and what you decide about riding.I think I'd continue riding but go for a medical bracelet etc, and insist on going to A&E for checks in case of a good whack to the head. TBIs are funny things at the best of times, never mind with blood thinners in the equation.
Firstly good look with the operation, im sure it will go fine.
I've got friends/family who have taken Warfarin for years and they still ride bikes and other activity sports. Other than diet/exercise they have made no other changes to their lifestyle after the health scare that put them on Warfarin for life. Its all about your own attitude to risk and what hobbies you enjoy.
Statistically there is a small chance of being in an RTA, motorcycle or otherwise. You can minimise the risk by say not doing trackdays, not riding off road, do some advanced training. Daily commuting by motorcycle is most risky, hence 50% of all motorcycle accidents are in London. The risk profile of riding on your own through the countryside is far less.
If you give up motorcycling you still have the risk of a fall from doing daily mundane tasks around the house, like the 17 million people that visit A&E each year.
Just getting out of bed in the morning is a risk ...recently a riding mate broke 2 ribs from a fall on his way to the bathroom in the night
I've got friends/family who have taken Warfarin for years and they still ride bikes and other activity sports. Other than diet/exercise they have made no other changes to their lifestyle after the health scare that put them on Warfarin for life. Its all about your own attitude to risk and what hobbies you enjoy.
Statistically there is a small chance of being in an RTA, motorcycle or otherwise. You can minimise the risk by say not doing trackdays, not riding off road, do some advanced training. Daily commuting by motorcycle is most risky, hence 50% of all motorcycle accidents are in London. The risk profile of riding on your own through the countryside is far less.
If you give up motorcycling you still have the risk of a fall from doing daily mundane tasks around the house, like the 17 million people that visit A&E each year.
Just getting out of bed in the morning is a risk ...recently a riding mate broke 2 ribs from a fall on his way to the bathroom in the night
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