Commuting into the City of London - Suggestions/Improvements
Discussion
Hi
I am meeting various seniors in the transport dept /planning committees at the City of London tomorrow, to talk about the importance of bikers being able to access the City and also the issues faced by bikers commuting into the City.
I think that motorcycles / powered two wheelers provide an important part of the transport eco-system - they do not create congestion, and bring an important and sometimes lower cost means of getting in and out - particularly with Covid and given the issues we have seen with public transport, plus the fact that for some, public transport is not convenient / attractive. For the City, the economic costs of supporting powered two wheelers are low relative to other forms of transport (the cost of a new station etc...).
However, I am not sure that this value is so well recognised.
Can anyone with any experience of commuting in on two wheels, issues to raise please post below - interested to collect feedback to share.
Key issues for me would be as follows - but interested in other ideas also:
Parking - location and amount - it can be hard to get a space and some areas are not well served.
Parking security - would be great if there was a structure to chain bikes to alongside the bike bays.
Access - it is increasingly difficult to even get into the City! I come in from SW London and I either have to come over Blackfriars Bridge or London Bridge and then wiggle around the Bank junction peak hours closure...
There are some junctions / turns open only to bicycles and it would be great if road design could be such that filtering is eased (this is problematic including in some areas where they installed temporary Covid space and not removed it).
Any thoughts / specific experience much appreciated.
I am doing this as a long standing City worker, having spoken to my elected representatives in the Ward of Cheap and have also teamed up with Motorcycle Action Group London, who have provided some excellent support.
I am meeting various seniors in the transport dept /planning committees at the City of London tomorrow, to talk about the importance of bikers being able to access the City and also the issues faced by bikers commuting into the City.
I think that motorcycles / powered two wheelers provide an important part of the transport eco-system - they do not create congestion, and bring an important and sometimes lower cost means of getting in and out - particularly with Covid and given the issues we have seen with public transport, plus the fact that for some, public transport is not convenient / attractive. For the City, the economic costs of supporting powered two wheelers are low relative to other forms of transport (the cost of a new station etc...).
However, I am not sure that this value is so well recognised.
Can anyone with any experience of commuting in on two wheels, issues to raise please post below - interested to collect feedback to share.
Key issues for me would be as follows - but interested in other ideas also:
Parking - location and amount - it can be hard to get a space and some areas are not well served.
Parking security - would be great if there was a structure to chain bikes to alongside the bike bays.
Access - it is increasingly difficult to even get into the City! I come in from SW London and I either have to come over Blackfriars Bridge or London Bridge and then wiggle around the Bank junction peak hours closure...
There are some junctions / turns open only to bicycles and it would be great if road design could be such that filtering is eased (this is problematic including in some areas where they installed temporary Covid space and not removed it).
Any thoughts / specific experience much appreciated.
I am doing this as a long standing City worker, having spoken to my elected representatives in the Ward of Cheap and have also teamed up with Motorcycle Action Group London, who have provided some excellent support.
I'd suggest that the complexity and volume of signage along with the number of changes are a big problem. It's really difficult to concentrate on the huge amount of signage to confirm if motorcycles are now/still allowed/restricted while trying to keep up with traffic flow and trying to look out for other hazards such as pedestrians/cyclists. Inconstancies around things like access to roads/junctions where busses and taxis are allowed mean you have to read the detail on every sign to know what is and isn't allowed, rather than just "scan reading".
A simple and consistent "it applies to all cases" would make life a whole lot safer.
A simple and consistent "it applies to all cases" would make life a whole lot safer.
black-k1 said:
I'd suggest that the complexity and volume of signage along with the number of changes are a big problem. It's really difficult to concentrate on the huge amount of signage to confirm if motorcycles are now/still allowed/restricted while trying to keep up with traffic flow and trying to look out for other hazards such as pedestrians/cyclists. Inconstancies around things like access to roads/junctions where busses and taxis are allowed mean you have to read the detail on every sign to know what is and isn't allowed, rather than just "scan reading".
A simple and consistent "it applies to all cases" would make life a whole lot safer.
Agreed - and the lack of consistency within different areas of London itself as to use of bus lanes etc doesn't help - it'd be far better if motorcyclists could simply use all bus lanes all the time, for example. A simple and consistent "it applies to all cases" would make life a whole lot safer.
Yes, I was going to suggest uniformity across bus lanes for motorcycles. It's bad enough quickly registering the hours that one particular bus lane is active, let alone looking out for the motorcycle symbol as well. (Most bus lanes seem to be 'at all times' now anyway). It's a problem in my local area in Essex as well, some bus 'gates' allow bikes to pass through, others don't and you'll get a PCN through the post. Some of the bus lanes here allow motorcycles, and others don't! It makes no sense at all.
Security, yeah okay, but a bike's security is only as good as the device(s) employed by the rider, and a bike will get stolen if the thief is suitably tooled and acts quickly enough.
I can't think of much that would improve my ride in from the east (A13) or northeast (M11/A12) tbh. Maybe allowing motorcycles to wait in that bicycle waiting bay at the start of traffic lights if I was being picky and optimistic. Just like every single food delivery rider does already.
I've noticed more and more of these ground anchor points though (like this one near Tottenham Court Rd), which I always use with a hefty chain if I find myself having to park in a bike bay.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5189324,-0.13134...
Security, yeah okay, but a bike's security is only as good as the device(s) employed by the rider, and a bike will get stolen if the thief is suitably tooled and acts quickly enough.
I can't think of much that would improve my ride in from the east (A13) or northeast (M11/A12) tbh. Maybe allowing motorcycles to wait in that bicycle waiting bay at the start of traffic lights if I was being picky and optimistic. Just like every single food delivery rider does already.
I've noticed more and more of these ground anchor points though (like this one near Tottenham Court Rd), which I always use with a hefty chain if I find myself having to park in a bike bay.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5189324,-0.13134...
Edited by FatboyKim on Tuesday 12th July 14:43
I can't personally comment on Parking as I'm lucky to have a space under our building but I have noticed the bike parking bays being squeezed / disappearing around EC2 lately, they seem to be being kicked into touch for food vans / stalls etc.
Think a couple of good points are worth mentioning. The scatter logical issue around being able to use bus lanes, some you can, some you can't (I've never seen a motorcycle holding up a bus). Much safer for a motorcyclist to be able to use these rather than trying to filter on the outside.
Another one is the awful condition of some of the roads, for example City road down from the Old St Roundabout (well not a roundabout now). It is blinking dangerous.
Think a couple of good points are worth mentioning. The scatter logical issue around being able to use bus lanes, some you can, some you can't (I've never seen a motorcycle holding up a bus). Much safer for a motorcyclist to be able to use these rather than trying to filter on the outside.
Another one is the awful condition of some of the roads, for example City road down from the Old St Roundabout (well not a roundabout now). It is blinking dangerous.
FatboyKim said:
....
I can't think of much that would improve my ride in from the east (A13) or northeast (M11/A12) tbh. Maybe allowing motorcycles to wait in that bicycle waiting bay at the start of traffic lights if I was being picky and optimistic. Just like every single food delivery rider does already.
...
A country in Europe (Spain I think) ran some comparative trials with regards to having motorcycles also able to use the advance stop boxes. I'd have to check my facts but I seem to remember that they showed no improvement or, more importantly, reduction in safety for pedal cyclists but a measurable improvement in safety for motorcyclists.I can't think of much that would improve my ride in from the east (A13) or northeast (M11/A12) tbh. Maybe allowing motorcycles to wait in that bicycle waiting bay at the start of traffic lights if I was being picky and optimistic. Just like every single food delivery rider does already.
...
I think that the only issue was that the pedal cyclists "felt" less safe despite the statistics showing it wasn't the case.
Get all of the pointless traffic islands removed so that we can filter.
Better management of road works - are they necessary, have they been planned efficiently & are they being progressed efficiently?
Reduction in road clutter too.
I don’t venture into the City, so can’t comment upon the specifics of parking there, bus lanes, etc, etc. my points are more generally applicable to London.
And if we’re dreaming, speed limits for bikes to be increased and with a red-light exemption if we’re in a hurry.
Better management of road works - are they necessary, have they been planned efficiently & are they being progressed efficiently?
Reduction in road clutter too.
I don’t venture into the City, so can’t comment upon the specifics of parking there, bus lanes, etc, etc. my points are more generally applicable to London.
And if we’re dreaming, speed limits for bikes to be increased and with a red-light exemption if we’re in a hurry.
_Neal_ said:
black-k1 said:
I'd suggest that the complexity and volume of signage along with the number of changes are a big problem. It's really difficult to concentrate on the huge amount of signage to confirm if motorcycles are now/still allowed/restricted while trying to keep up with traffic flow and trying to look out for other hazards such as pedestrians/cyclists. Inconstancies around things like access to roads/junctions where busses and taxis are allowed mean you have to read the detail on every sign to know what is and isn't allowed, rather than just "scan reading".
A simple and consistent "it applies to all cases" would make life a whole lot safer.
Agreed - and the lack of consistency within different areas of London itself as to use of bus lanes etc doesn't help - it'd be far better if motorcyclists could simply use all bus lanes all the time, for example. A simple and consistent "it applies to all cases" would make life a whole lot safer.
black-k1 said:
I'd suggest that the complexity and volume of signage along with the number of changes are a big problem. It's really difficult to concentrate on the huge amount of signage to confirm if motorcycles are now/still allowed/restricted while trying to keep up with traffic flow and trying to look out for other hazards such as pedestrians/cyclists. Inconstancies around things like access to roads/junctions where busses and taxis are allowed mean you have to read the detail on every sign to know what is and isn't allowed, rather than just "scan reading".
A simple and consistent "it applies to all cases" would make life a whole lot safer.
Totally agree with this. It makes it a real pain when you are diverted onto roads you don't know. In some places I've encountered (admittedly in South London rather than the city) you're allowed in the bus lane, then there's a 50m section that you can't go in, then it reverts again.A simple and consistent "it applies to all cases" would make life a whole lot safer.
piddy44 said:
Not specific to commuting into the city, but I often hear people saying stuff like "My Panigale/KTM/whatever gets 40mpg so not much better than a car for polluting".
There needs to be much more of a focus on the environmental benefits of motorcycling - compare like for like, so a 125-300cc bike's economy to an average commuter type car (88mpg versus 42.5mpg in my case). Bikes don't spend ages sitting in traffic jams spewing out emissions. Bike don't take up much road space. They take up less parking space therefore helping protect city green spaces. If 10% of car drivers moved to motorcycling/scooters then congestion would be reduced massively. Look at the success of motorcycling in other European cities.
The environmental aspect is a strong selling point, and the 'European' aspect appeals to the pro-EU folks who run London.
The pollution point would have been so valid before ULEZ and EVs....There needs to be much more of a focus on the environmental benefits of motorcycling - compare like for like, so a 125-300cc bike's economy to an average commuter type car (88mpg versus 42.5mpg in my case). Bikes don't spend ages sitting in traffic jams spewing out emissions. Bike don't take up much road space. They take up less parking space therefore helping protect city green spaces. If 10% of car drivers moved to motorcycling/scooters then congestion would be reduced massively. Look at the success of motorcycling in other European cities.
The environmental aspect is a strong selling point, and the 'European' aspect appeals to the pro-EU folks who run London.
Awful lot of bikes with modified exhausts, no cat, you name it.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
this link talks about introducing parking charges
this link talks about introducing parking charges
Bakazan said:
Totally agree with this. It makes it a real pain when you are diverted onto roads you don't know. In some places I've encountered (admittedly in South London rather than the city) you're allowed in the bus lane, then there's a 50m section that you can't go in, then it reverts again.
Blanket coverage on this would make life easier. Something like all 2 wheeled vehicles are also allowed to use all bus lanes. None of this apparent cash cow for throwing random excluded sections up and fining those who need to watch out for people in the most congested city in the country and react to the plethora of signs telling you what you can and can't do, forcing bikes into traffic at multiple points.FatboyKim said:
The problem is that a road can change from being a red route to not being a red route (and back again). If you're watching the colour of the lines at the side of the road then you may notice the change but I will confess, my attention is normally NOT on the colour of the lines at the side of the road! Additionally, the small number of red routes managed by local authorites mean that I know that not all red routes allow motorbikes in bus lanes so I know I have to check every one.Thank you everyone for all of the input.
Meeting was with Deputy Chair of Transport Committee, Chair of Streets and Walkways Committee and Assistant Director for Policy and Projects.
I think it is fair to say that they have been focused on active transport, prompted by the Govt and TFL.
However, it was a good discussion that flagged some of the important issues to PTW riders and mutual interest - particularly as the City faces occupancy issues post Covid (my view) and with all of the public transport issues that we see (Covid, strikes etc).
The first step was saving the Old Jewry motorcycle bay (a rare space near Bank) - which seems to be on its way back (scheduled for next month) and am hopeful that at the least, there will at least be some consideration of bikes / PTW’s going forward, rather than the usual very one sided approach to transport.
I think that bikers are a bit guilty of not really voicing discontent, whereas cyclist groups are very vocal - and at the same time, there are many positive arguments for motorbikes / scooters / PTW - congestion solution, fuel efficiency (biggest selling Uk PTW, Yamaha Nmax 125 quoted at over 100mpg, similar energy consumption level to Tesla quoted level, but financially much more accessible at £3500), bikers are licenced, trained, insured, traceable and pay road tax - whereas cyclists, pedestrians, e-scooter riders???
I incorporated as many of the above comments as I could into the pres as rider feedback.
Thank you.
I think the most important thing is for everyone to have a voice and not just accept when negative changes are made - the policy people are all human and nothing is more powerful than another human reaching out - so contact the City / your local council / your MP and pls also join one of the biker groups pushing for your rights.
I am a member of Motorcycle Action Group who have some great people engaging across London (pushing back against for example the excesses of Camden and Lewisham trying to lump PTW with cars, seeking to remove free bays and apply parking and residents charged equivalent to cars) but am sure there are also others.
I am keen to get specific feedback on issues faced by PTW riders in the City that can be passed on - so happy to take any more comments.
Meeting was with Deputy Chair of Transport Committee, Chair of Streets and Walkways Committee and Assistant Director for Policy and Projects.
I think it is fair to say that they have been focused on active transport, prompted by the Govt and TFL.
However, it was a good discussion that flagged some of the important issues to PTW riders and mutual interest - particularly as the City faces occupancy issues post Covid (my view) and with all of the public transport issues that we see (Covid, strikes etc).
The first step was saving the Old Jewry motorcycle bay (a rare space near Bank) - which seems to be on its way back (scheduled for next month) and am hopeful that at the least, there will at least be some consideration of bikes / PTW’s going forward, rather than the usual very one sided approach to transport.
I think that bikers are a bit guilty of not really voicing discontent, whereas cyclist groups are very vocal - and at the same time, there are many positive arguments for motorbikes / scooters / PTW - congestion solution, fuel efficiency (biggest selling Uk PTW, Yamaha Nmax 125 quoted at over 100mpg, similar energy consumption level to Tesla quoted level, but financially much more accessible at £3500), bikers are licenced, trained, insured, traceable and pay road tax - whereas cyclists, pedestrians, e-scooter riders???
I incorporated as many of the above comments as I could into the pres as rider feedback.
Thank you.
I think the most important thing is for everyone to have a voice and not just accept when negative changes are made - the policy people are all human and nothing is more powerful than another human reaching out - so contact the City / your local council / your MP and pls also join one of the biker groups pushing for your rights.
I am a member of Motorcycle Action Group who have some great people engaging across London (pushing back against for example the excesses of Camden and Lewisham trying to lump PTW with cars, seeking to remove free bays and apply parking and residents charged equivalent to cars) but am sure there are also others.
I am keen to get specific feedback on issues faced by PTW riders in the City that can be passed on - so happy to take any more comments.
In case of interest, this is the exec summary from the pres - not sure how to post the whole thing:
Powered two wheelers are an important part of the City’s transport eco-system and provide a reliable, independent and low cost means to access the City for many commuters
▪ Covid, remote working and the cost of living crisis are changing commuting patterns – the City no longer has a monopoly on work location and we feel that there is mutual interest in the Transport Strategy carefully considering the balance between attractive means to access the City, as well as the built environment within the City
▪ Ongoing Tube and Rail strikes and related disruption underline the need for a diverse and resilient transport system for commuters, employers and commercial services
▪ The City is promoting walking and cycling – however, these do not provide an end-to-end transport solution for all commuters at all times, favouring shorter trips and more closely based commuters in expensive residential locations
▪ We feel that there is a perception issue towards the use of PTW’s that means that their costs and merits are not always objectively assessed
▪ Other transport user groups more vocal?
▪ PTW’s are a congestion solution – exempt from congestion charge, can access TFL bus lanes
▪ Emissions regulations for new PTW’s are significantly inside ULEZ requirements
▪ Energy usage of leading commuter bikes is low (#1 PTW seller = > 100mpg official fuel consumption)
▪ Use of electric vehicles is growing (+37% YoY) and will be pushed by the national and international agenda, plus technological developments, although still small as a % of total
Safety
▪ PTW riders are vulnerable road users, however, also involved in smaller number of accidents than other users in absolute terms
▪ The City’s existing choice of transport winners (road space, access and resources - cycling, buses, e-scooters) is not based upon accident data
▪ According to the City’s own data, normalized per million km, total casualties in collision with vehicle – buses show similar level to motorcycles yet have significantly greater access – Bank Junction, Cheapside road restriction etc. Bicycles are strongly promoted and have the widest street access, despit e the risks and behaviours
Asks
▪ Parking – volume and location to give balanced access to the City’s Wards
▪ Security measures – theft a big challenge (PTW account for 25% of all stolen vehicles in the UK)
▪ Street access – bus lanes, road design, space for visibility and to filter, ability to physically access the City in an efficient manner
Powered two wheelers are an important part of the City’s transport eco-system and provide a reliable, independent and low cost means to access the City for many commuters
▪ Covid, remote working and the cost of living crisis are changing commuting patterns – the City no longer has a monopoly on work location and we feel that there is mutual interest in the Transport Strategy carefully considering the balance between attractive means to access the City, as well as the built environment within the City
▪ Ongoing Tube and Rail strikes and related disruption underline the need for a diverse and resilient transport system for commuters, employers and commercial services
▪ The City is promoting walking and cycling – however, these do not provide an end-to-end transport solution for all commuters at all times, favouring shorter trips and more closely based commuters in expensive residential locations
▪ We feel that there is a perception issue towards the use of PTW’s that means that their costs and merits are not always objectively assessed
▪ Other transport user groups more vocal?
▪ PTW’s are a congestion solution – exempt from congestion charge, can access TFL bus lanes
▪ Emissions regulations for new PTW’s are significantly inside ULEZ requirements
▪ Energy usage of leading commuter bikes is low (#1 PTW seller = > 100mpg official fuel consumption)
▪ Use of electric vehicles is growing (+37% YoY) and will be pushed by the national and international agenda, plus technological developments, although still small as a % of total
Safety
▪ PTW riders are vulnerable road users, however, also involved in smaller number of accidents than other users in absolute terms
▪ The City’s existing choice of transport winners (road space, access and resources - cycling, buses, e-scooters) is not based upon accident data
▪ According to the City’s own data, normalized per million km, total casualties in collision with vehicle – buses show similar level to motorcycles yet have significantly greater access – Bank Junction, Cheapside road restriction etc. Bicycles are strongly promoted and have the widest street access, despit e the risks and behaviours
Asks
▪ Parking – volume and location to give balanced access to the City’s Wards
▪ Security measures – theft a big challenge (PTW account for 25% of all stolen vehicles in the UK)
▪ Street access – bus lanes, road design, space for visibility and to filter, ability to physically access the City in an efficient manner
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