Litre bike to 600ish - any regrets?
Discussion
Having recently sold the RSV4 that I owned for the last 6.5 years, I had all intentions of going out and getting another litre superbike be it an S1000RR / 1100 Tuono etc.
I've had litre bikes for the last 15 years so never thought I would have considered a step down in capacity.
That was until I had a test ride on the new RS660 last weekend.
What a fantastic "little" bike!
Stunning to look at, engine is a peach, more than enough power for the road. Loaded with tech (AWC / cornering ABS / auto blipper / programmable maps etc. etc.). 183KG wet weight (claimed) makes it feel nimble on the twisties, comfortable riding position, frugal on fuel (averaged around 56mpg thrashing it around Northumberland).
Needless to say, deposit down on stars and stripes edition after the test ride and hopefully pick her up tomorrow!
Now, its still niggling in the back of my mind......am I going to regret this loss of 60+ BHP?....
Anyone else made this move to a smaller bike and regretted it / not regretted it?
If it all goes tits I suppose I still have a streetfighter GSXR1000 to play about on
I've had litre bikes for the last 15 years so never thought I would have considered a step down in capacity.
That was until I had a test ride on the new RS660 last weekend.
What a fantastic "little" bike!
Stunning to look at, engine is a peach, more than enough power for the road. Loaded with tech (AWC / cornering ABS / auto blipper / programmable maps etc. etc.). 183KG wet weight (claimed) makes it feel nimble on the twisties, comfortable riding position, frugal on fuel (averaged around 56mpg thrashing it around Northumberland).
Needless to say, deposit down on stars and stripes edition after the test ride and hopefully pick her up tomorrow!
Now, its still niggling in the back of my mind......am I going to regret this loss of 60+ BHP?....
Anyone else made this move to a smaller bike and regretted it / not regretted it?
If it all goes tits I suppose I still have a streetfighter GSXR1000 to play about on
Edited by STe_rsv4 on Thursday 30th June 09:11
Depends on the type of roads you ride on.
If you ride a lot of roundabout linked dual carriageways a 600ish bike will feel slow.
If you are on twisty stuff where 90 is fast a less powerful bike is more fun and doesn’t feel slow.
You do also get used to less performance and 100bhp is still a good amount.
I manage happily with 75.
If you ride a lot of roundabout linked dual carriageways a 600ish bike will feel slow.
If you are on twisty stuff where 90 is fast a less powerful bike is more fun and doesn’t feel slow.
You do also get used to less performance and 100bhp is still a good amount.
I manage happily with 75.
I'm going the other way round.
I find a 600 worse than a 1000 on the roads, the lack of low down and mid range means you really have to work it hard which is great fun but at the same time it get's a bit tiresome after a while. I went from a litre bike (CBR1000RR) to a 600, albeit with a 5 year gap between them, but I really miss the low end and mid range grunt of the bigger bike, they just make a better road bike in my opinion and my riding is 70/30 road to track.
Out of interest how did you find the RSV4 as a road bike? I'm looking at going from a ZX6R to an RSV4 and hearing mixed reports on how easy they are to get along with on the roads.
I find a 600 worse than a 1000 on the roads, the lack of low down and mid range means you really have to work it hard which is great fun but at the same time it get's a bit tiresome after a while. I went from a litre bike (CBR1000RR) to a 600, albeit with a 5 year gap between them, but I really miss the low end and mid range grunt of the bigger bike, they just make a better road bike in my opinion and my riding is 70/30 road to track.
Out of interest how did you find the RSV4 as a road bike? I'm looking at going from a ZX6R to an RSV4 and hearing mixed reports on how easy they are to get along with on the roads.
I have Northumberland and north Yorkshire / Weardale within half hours ride so not too fussed about dual carriageways etc. It will be A & B roads.
To be fair when I test rode the 660 there was never a time when I thought "I could have been faster on this section on the 1000cc" except on some of the straights. The engine seems pretty punchy in the midrange and strong up top which I suppose is ideal for road riding.
Did you also come from a litre bike to the 75BHP bike?
To be fair when I test rode the 660 there was never a time when I thought "I could have been faster on this section on the 1000cc" except on some of the straights. The engine seems pretty punchy in the midrange and strong up top which I suppose is ideal for road riding.
Did you also come from a litre bike to the 75BHP bike?
I love my Rs660. Although I've never rode a litre bike I've rode more focused supersports and find the 660 the perfect combination of power and focus for the road.
My riding is mostly in mid/North Wales and Shropshire B roads.
I still have a hankering for a 1100 Tuono or something silly like trying one of the crop of new sportsbikes but think that's because it's a box I still need to tick rather than the 660 lacking in any way.
Only complaint I've got is the rear shock is a bit meh. Seems stiff but equally really soft and vague. I'm looking to upgrade to ktech during the winter.
My riding is mostly in mid/North Wales and Shropshire B roads.
I still have a hankering for a 1100 Tuono or something silly like trying one of the crop of new sportsbikes but think that's because it's a box I still need to tick rather than the 660 lacking in any way.
Only complaint I've got is the rear shock is a bit meh. Seems stiff but equally really soft and vague. I'm looking to upgrade to ktech during the winter.
samjlevy said:
I'm going the other way round.
I find a 600 worse than a 1000 on the roads, the lack of low down and mid range means you really have to work it hard which is great fun but at the same time it get's a bit tiresome after a while. I went from a litre bike (CBR1000RR) to a 600, albeit with a 5 year gap between them, but I really miss the low end and mid range grunt of the bigger bike, they just make a better road bike in my opinion and my riding is 70/30 road to track.
Out of interest how did you find the RSV4 as a road bike? I'm looking at going from a ZX6R to an RSV4 and hearing mixed reports on how easy they are to get along with on the roads.
The RSV4 is a great road bike however I found not being able to use the full performance frustrating and one of the reasons for downsizing. Don't get me wrong, once up the northern areas of Scotland you could really get to exploit the performance provided you risk a long ban if caught! I find a 600 worse than a 1000 on the roads, the lack of low down and mid range means you really have to work it hard which is great fun but at the same time it get's a bit tiresome after a while. I went from a litre bike (CBR1000RR) to a 600, albeit with a 5 year gap between them, but I really miss the low end and mid range grunt of the bigger bike, they just make a better road bike in my opinion and my riding is 70/30 road to track.
Out of interest how did you find the RSV4 as a road bike? I'm looking at going from a ZX6R to an RSV4 and hearing mixed reports on how easy they are to get along with on the roads.
I assume you had a modern supersport (636 or similar) when complaining about the lack of low end / midrange? That's what I found pleasing on the 660 - there seems to be loads of grunt from 4000RPM so you don't have to chase the top 3rd of the rev range. They seem to have done a great job of the parallel twin to make this more suitable for the roads.
I live in Durham so I will ride the same roads as you.
I also have a V4 Tuono myself and my Mrs has the 660 Tuono with IMU and QS. So have a fairly good comparison to you.
I think with a few tweaks to the 660, suspension upgrade and better pads in the front, it would be as quick on the same roads as the V4, arguably it might be more fun given the lighter weight and the fact you have to thrash it more than the V4.
I love riding the 660 ….. BUT ….. there is the odd occasion when I’m on it and I think to myself ‘F**k, I’d really love to be on my bike right now’
I also have a V4 Tuono myself and my Mrs has the 660 Tuono with IMU and QS. So have a fairly good comparison to you.
I think with a few tweaks to the 660, suspension upgrade and better pads in the front, it would be as quick on the same roads as the V4, arguably it might be more fun given the lighter weight and the fact you have to thrash it more than the V4.
I love riding the 660 ….. BUT ….. there is the odd occasion when I’m on it and I think to myself ‘F**k, I’d really love to be on my bike right now’
STe_rsv4 said:
The RSV4 is a great road bike however I found not being able to use the full performance frustrating and one of the reasons for downsizing. Don't get me wrong, once up the northern areas of Scotland you could really get to exploit the performance provided you risk a long ban if caught!
I assume you had a modern supersport (636 or similar) when complaining about the lack of low end / midrange? That's what I found pleasing on the 660 - there seems to be loads of grunt from 4000RPM so you don't have to chase the top 3rd of the rev range. They seem to have done a great job of the parallel twin to make this more suitable for the roads.
It's a 2016 ZX6R so a 636 which are a bit more punchy in the mid range than say an R6.I assume you had a modern supersport (636 or similar) when complaining about the lack of low end / midrange? That's what I found pleasing on the 660 - there seems to be loads of grunt from 4000RPM so you don't have to chase the top 3rd of the rev range. They seem to have done a great job of the parallel twin to make this more suitable for the roads.
For me it's not the outright power, more having that mid range grunt for the roads which is where the RS660 shines, but I've always lusted over an RSV4.
EVOTECH3BELL said:
I love my Rs660. Although I've never rode a litre bike I've rode more focused supersports and find the 660 the perfect combination of power and focus for the road.
My riding is mostly in mid/North Wales and Shropshire B roads.
I still have a hankering for a 1100 Tuono or something silly like trying one of the crop of new sportsbikes but think that's because it's a box I still need to tick rather than the 660 lacking in any way.
Only complaint I've got is the rear shock is a bit meh. Seems stiff but equally really soft and vague. I'm looking to upgrade to ktech during the winter.
Great to hear! Yes, from the reviews I've read, the rear shock is a My riding is mostly in mid/North Wales and Shropshire B roads.
I still have a hankering for a 1100 Tuono or something silly like trying one of the crop of new sportsbikes but think that's because it's a box I still need to tick rather than the 660 lacking in any way.
Only complaint I've got is the rear shock is a bit meh. Seems stiff but equally really soft and vague. I'm looking to upgrade to ktech during the winter.
in the armour for these bikes. Ill see how I get on with it and may do the same upgrade.airsafari87 said:
I live in Durham so I will ride the same roads as you.
I also have a V4 Tuono myself and my Mrs has the 660 Tuono with IMU and QS. So have a fairly good comparison to you.
I think with a few tweaks to the 660, suspension upgrade and better pads in the front, it would be as quick on the same roads as the V4, arguably it might be more fun given the lighter weight and the fact you have to thrash it more than the V4.
I love riding the 660 ….. BUT ….. there is the odd occasion when I’m on it and I think to myself ‘F**k, I’d really love to be on my bike right now’
Out of interest have you purposefully tried to "make" the electronics work (Traction control) with it having the IMU?I also have a V4 Tuono myself and my Mrs has the 660 Tuono with IMU and QS. So have a fairly good comparison to you.
I think with a few tweaks to the 660, suspension upgrade and better pads in the front, it would be as quick on the same roads as the V4, arguably it might be more fun given the lighter weight and the fact you have to thrash it more than the V4.
I love riding the 660 ….. BUT ….. there is the odd occasion when I’m on it and I think to myself ‘F**k, I’d really love to be on my bike right now’
My RSV4 was non APRC so have never relied on electronics before. I'm just wondering how you "test" how far you can push accelerating out of a bend? If it thinks you are going to spin the wheel up while leaning, does it just cut the power? does it wait until the wheel slips and cut power completely or is it intuitive enough to give you less power available once traction has been broken?
I have yeah.
If you’re coming from the V4 you will find yourself using the throttle like an on off switch, obviously not while at full lean, but you will find yourself winding it on harder coming out of corners as you know there is less chance of the power overwhelming the rear tyre.
The limiting factor I find with getting the power down is the rear shock tying itself in knots before traction becomes an issue.
You don’t really feel the TC cutting in when it does though. There’s no abrupt shutting off or anything like that, at most you might notice the light flashing on the dash, but other than that there’s no dramas, likewise with the wheelie control.
If you’re coming from the V4 you will find yourself using the throttle like an on off switch, obviously not while at full lean, but you will find yourself winding it on harder coming out of corners as you know there is less chance of the power overwhelming the rear tyre.
The limiting factor I find with getting the power down is the rear shock tying itself in knots before traction becomes an issue.
You don’t really feel the TC cutting in when it does though. There’s no abrupt shutting off or anything like that, at most you might notice the light flashing on the dash, but other than that there’s no dramas, likewise with the wheelie control.
OP, I'm in the same area as you I think and I'd say that for me, a 600 sports bike is more fun than a 1000 on these roads. Sure, the 1000 is quicker if you're trying to set a lap time, but ultimately what would hold you back there would be how brave you are in the corners and how much you exceed the limits. Ultimately, the risk is measured in quite much you are willing to put your life and licence on the line and as fast as you could be, there will always be someone with more to prove and less to lose.
Once you get past the "How fast can I go?" part, you can start to frame the rides in "How much fun am I having?" terms, although the fact that you've already put the deposit down on the smaller bike makes me think you've already arrived at this mindset.
Of course, bigger or smaller bikes are better or worse for different riders, depending on what you want from the ride. We've already had the comments about 600s feeling "slow" or having to "thrash them to make progress", which are common tropes in this debate. Does a litre bike feel more effortless and accelerate with more vigour in a wider range of gears across more of the rev range? Absolutely. Does this make a 600 feel slow? To me, absolutely not.
If I were riding in congested areas, a litre bike that could accelerate strongly from any gear from normal road speeds would probably feel more useful. In the relatively quiet roads you likely ride on, winding up a 600 through the gears feels like less of a chore. I went from a GSX-R600 to a GSX-R1000 and while I enjoyed the ludicrous acceleration at first, I wouldn't say I had more fun. I actually prefer smaller engines, wringing them out is just fun to me. I prefer the shorter gears and higher redlines - not for everyone but it works for me.
Of course, riding a 600 up to the redline through the gears will take you deep into illegal territory in much the same way that taking a 1000 to the redline in 2nd will completely blow away any speed limit on the planet so it's hardly like 600s are licence preservers in that respect, but to me it feels better on the smaller bikes. While none of us can ever really extract the full performance from these things on the road, a 600 feels, perhaps only in an illusory way, that you are using more of the performance it can offer than you would on a 1000. You're a bit lighter and more nimble, you're up and down the gearbox more, you're on a wider throttle for more of the time. You're probably slower over a given route than you would be on a 1000, but does it matter if you're enjoying the ride more?
Once you get past the "How fast can I go?" part, you can start to frame the rides in "How much fun am I having?" terms, although the fact that you've already put the deposit down on the smaller bike makes me think you've already arrived at this mindset.
Of course, bigger or smaller bikes are better or worse for different riders, depending on what you want from the ride. We've already had the comments about 600s feeling "slow" or having to "thrash them to make progress", which are common tropes in this debate. Does a litre bike feel more effortless and accelerate with more vigour in a wider range of gears across more of the rev range? Absolutely. Does this make a 600 feel slow? To me, absolutely not.
If I were riding in congested areas, a litre bike that could accelerate strongly from any gear from normal road speeds would probably feel more useful. In the relatively quiet roads you likely ride on, winding up a 600 through the gears feels like less of a chore. I went from a GSX-R600 to a GSX-R1000 and while I enjoyed the ludicrous acceleration at first, I wouldn't say I had more fun. I actually prefer smaller engines, wringing them out is just fun to me. I prefer the shorter gears and higher redlines - not for everyone but it works for me.
Of course, riding a 600 up to the redline through the gears will take you deep into illegal territory in much the same way that taking a 1000 to the redline in 2nd will completely blow away any speed limit on the planet so it's hardly like 600s are licence preservers in that respect, but to me it feels better on the smaller bikes. While none of us can ever really extract the full performance from these things on the road, a 600 feels, perhaps only in an illusory way, that you are using more of the performance it can offer than you would on a 1000. You're a bit lighter and more nimble, you're up and down the gearbox more, you're on a wider throttle for more of the time. You're probably slower over a given route than you would be on a 1000, but does it matter if you're enjoying the ride more?
Edited by Mastodon2 on Thursday 30th June 11:47
Mastodon2 said:
OP, I'm in the same area as you I think and I'd say that for me, a 600 sports bike is more fun than a 1000 on these roads. Sure, the 1000 is quicker if you're trying to set a lap time, but ultimately what would hold you back there would be how brave you are in the corners and how much you exceed the limits. Ultimately, the risk is measured in quite much you are willing to put your life and licence on the line and as fast as you could be, there will always be someone with more to prove and less to lose.
Once you get past the "How fast can I go?" part, you can start to frame the rides in "How much fun am I having?" terms, although the fact that you've already put the deposit down on the smaller bike makes me think you've already arrived at this mindset.
Of course, bigger or smaller bikes are better or worse for different riders, depending on what you want from the ride. We've already had the comments about 600s feeling "slow" or having to "thrash them to make progress", which are common tropes in this debate. Does a litre bike feel more effortless and accelerate with more vigour in a wider range of gears across more of the rev range? Absolutely. Does this make a 600 feel slow? To me, absolutely not.
If I were riding in congested areas, a litre bike would could accelerate strongly from any gear from normal road speeds would probably feel more useful. In the relatively quiet roads you likely ride on, winding up a 600 through the gears feels like less of a chore. I went from a GSX-R600 to a GSX-R1000 and while I enjoyed the ludicrous acceleration at first, I wouldn't say I had more fun. I actually prefer smaller engines, wringing them out is just fun to me. I prefer the shorter gears and higher redlines - not for everyone but it works for me.
Of course, riding a 600 up to the redline through the gears will take you deep into illegal territory in much the same way that taking a 1000 to the redline in 2nd will completely blow away any speed limit on the planet so it's hardly like 600s are licence preservers in that respect, but to me it feels better on the smaller bikes. While none of us can ever really extract the full performance from these things on the road, a 600 feels, perhaps only in an illusory way, that you are using more of the performance it can offer than you would on a 1000. You're a bit lighter and more nimble, you're up and down the gearbox more, you're on a wider throttle for more of the time. You're probably slower over a given route than you would be on a 1000, but does it matter? if you're enjoying the ride more?
Pretty much nailed on. Litre bikes "feel" faster (obviously they are) but as I've gotten older I've been holding a bit in reserve compared to how I would have ridden 10 years ago. I no longer go for that "mad overtake around the blind bend" to try and keep up with the group, Im confident enough in my riding to know I will catch up a few seconds later or back off and just meet them at the next section. Ive done a few track days on an battered old £600 cbr600 f3 and it was the most fun I had in ages bashing up and down the box, wring the absolute sOnce you get past the "How fast can I go?" part, you can start to frame the rides in "How much fun am I having?" terms, although the fact that you've already put the deposit down on the smaller bike makes me think you've already arrived at this mindset.
Of course, bigger or smaller bikes are better or worse for different riders, depending on what you want from the ride. We've already had the comments about 600s feeling "slow" or having to "thrash them to make progress", which are common tropes in this debate. Does a litre bike feel more effortless and accelerate with more vigour in a wider range of gears across more of the rev range? Absolutely. Does this make a 600 feel slow? To me, absolutely not.
If I were riding in congested areas, a litre bike would could accelerate strongly from any gear from normal road speeds would probably feel more useful. In the relatively quiet roads you likely ride on, winding up a 600 through the gears feels like less of a chore. I went from a GSX-R600 to a GSX-R1000 and while I enjoyed the ludicrous acceleration at first, I wouldn't say I had more fun. I actually prefer smaller engines, wringing them out is just fun to me. I prefer the shorter gears and higher redlines - not for everyone but it works for me.
Of course, riding a 600 up to the redline through the gears will take you deep into illegal territory in much the same way that taking a 1000 to the redline in 2nd will completely blow away any speed limit on the planet so it's hardly like 600s are licence preservers in that respect, but to me it feels better on the smaller bikes. While none of us can ever really extract the full performance from these things on the road, a 600 feels, perhaps only in an illusory way, that you are using more of the performance it can offer than you would on a 1000. You're a bit lighter and more nimble, you're up and down the gearbox more, you're on a wider throttle for more of the time. You're probably slower over a given route than you would be on a 1000, but does it matter? if you're enjoying the ride more?
t out of it & hassling the litre bikes around the slower sections only to be left on the straights. For the roads I know that 100bhp should be more than enough. Maybe not so much on the A87 keeping up with the fireblades / S1000s
I went from a Gsxs1000 to a Tuareg 660.
I find the Aprilia a hoot at normal speeds, it's got plenty of torque low down, makes a lovely noise and I can pin it through a few gears without worrying about my license.
I do live in Devon so probably the perfect place for the Tuareg, lots of tight and twisty minor roads. The Suzuki probably made just as much torque low down, but I was always looking for the rush at the top of the rev range, by which point I was at silly speeds very quickly.
It's possible that I'm just enjoying the Aprilia more because the lesser power is more appropriate for my skill level. Most importantly it's just great fun, which is what riding is about.
I would highly recommend anyone to try the 660 Aprilias, they aren't like the normal dull parallel twins.
I find the Aprilia a hoot at normal speeds, it's got plenty of torque low down, makes a lovely noise and I can pin it through a few gears without worrying about my license.
I do live in Devon so probably the perfect place for the Tuareg, lots of tight and twisty minor roads. The Suzuki probably made just as much torque low down, but I was always looking for the rush at the top of the rev range, by which point I was at silly speeds very quickly.
It's possible that I'm just enjoying the Aprilia more because the lesser power is more appropriate for my skill level. Most importantly it's just great fun, which is what riding is about.
I would highly recommend anyone to try the 660 Aprilias, they aren't like the normal dull parallel twins.
Just one related thought…. Not 1000 to 600 specifically.
I think with modern tyres and chassis, all the rider aids, and a quick shifter, modern sports bikes ‘draw you in’ to riding very very quickly and into a high risk area on the road.
I can’t imagine the 660 will disappoint in any way (maybe engine charisma after the V4)… But I can imagine you covering the ground very very quickly and being into 3 figures plenty of the time. I reckon you’ll have a blast, but won’t be travelling much slower except on the very fastest A-roads.
Obviously, pictures when you collect it please :-)
I think with modern tyres and chassis, all the rider aids, and a quick shifter, modern sports bikes ‘draw you in’ to riding very very quickly and into a high risk area on the road.
I can’t imagine the 660 will disappoint in any way (maybe engine charisma after the V4)… But I can imagine you covering the ground very very quickly and being into 3 figures plenty of the time. I reckon you’ll have a blast, but won’t be travelling much slower except on the very fastest A-roads.
Obviously, pictures when you collect it please :-)
Seems a few have made the move then (to the 660 engine) and are enjoying it 
makes me happier with my choice. Looking forward to getting out for a few rides after picking her up this weekend.
On a separate note: this is my 1st brand new bike - do you still have to run the engines in???
makes me happier with my choice. Looking forward to getting out for a few rides after picking her up this weekend.
On a separate note: this is my 1st brand new bike - do you still have to run the engines in???
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