How can we save the TT?
Discussion
So distressing to learn of the third fatality this year.
I love motorcycling, I love the TT, long may it continue.
Everyone goes there knowing the risks, everyone races with their own free will. Without the risk, there would be much less personal challenge and feeling of accomplishment.
But...
You and I may think like that, but how long is the outside world going to let us get away with this? I know voices have called for more safety or an outright ban for decades. With the increasing H&S and polarised media, is the end inevitable?
Is there any way we can get ahead of the curve and lessen loss of life or risk of fatality in our own way, at our own pace, rather than have to respond to a knee jerk government level panic.
Somehow events like this, and for example, the Reno Air Races continue in 2022, but I fear their days are numbered, unless something can be done from within. But then it wouldn't be the Isle of Mann TT. So what's the solution?
I love motorcycling, I love the TT, long may it continue.
Everyone goes there knowing the risks, everyone races with their own free will. Without the risk, there would be much less personal challenge and feeling of accomplishment.
But...
You and I may think like that, but how long is the outside world going to let us get away with this? I know voices have called for more safety or an outright ban for decades. With the increasing H&S and polarised media, is the end inevitable?
Is there any way we can get ahead of the curve and lessen loss of life or risk of fatality in our own way, at our own pace, rather than have to respond to a knee jerk government level panic.
Somehow events like this, and for example, the Reno Air Races continue in 2022, but I fear their days are numbered, unless something can be done from within. But then it wouldn't be the Isle of Mann TT. So what's the solution?
The TT is a dangerous place to race, always will be, same as any road course. I’m sick and tired of people who don’t race there coming out with sweeping statements about restricting/banning/health and safety/etc.
When you sign on you accept the risks, and if it was sanitised it wouldn’t be the same, not that it could ever be made as safe as circuit racing.
When you sign on you accept the risks, and if it was sanitised it wouldn’t be the same, not that it could ever be made as safe as circuit racing.
Maybe, and I really do mean maybe, there are some better barrier technologies out there currently which may be able to be used (if not already, I don't know). Top international circuits have quite a few different kinds of crash barriers now for different kinds of corners and vehicles used.
But, any solution on an almost 40 mile course is going to be extremely expensive, so expensive that it could just tank the whole event. I'd like people to not die, but I wouldn't want to completely sterilise the event
I know for some spectators, sitting right next to the track is part of the thrill, but I think that not only rider deaths should be looked at, but the extremely close proximity spectators can get should be also. I don't necessarily mean having to stand half a mile away with 50 barriers in-between you and the track, but being a little further away than having your limbs and whatever you are carrying dangling over an active race course. Just a few days ago someone dropped their helmet right infront of the riders.
But, any solution on an almost 40 mile course is going to be extremely expensive, so expensive that it could just tank the whole event. I'd like people to not die, but I wouldn't want to completely sterilise the event
I know for some spectators, sitting right next to the track is part of the thrill, but I think that not only rider deaths should be looked at, but the extremely close proximity spectators can get should be also. I don't necessarily mean having to stand half a mile away with 50 barriers in-between you and the track, but being a little further away than having your limbs and whatever you are carrying dangling over an active race course. Just a few days ago someone dropped their helmet right infront of the riders.
If the TT gets cancelled because of 'safety', then all sports should be stopped also, because there is risk of injury or death in most.
All but a handful of IOM residents don't want it cancelled. The riders go into it willingly and well aware of the risks.
I race in Thundersport and someone died at Cadwell the other weekend...he wasn't the first death at Cadwell. Should we close Cadwell? Put up a speed camera perhaps?
Knee jerk reactions have caused many to lose out on many things in life because of some armchair safety warriors who've never done anything exciting in their life.
All but a handful of IOM residents don't want it cancelled. The riders go into it willingly and well aware of the risks.
I race in Thundersport and someone died at Cadwell the other weekend...he wasn't the first death at Cadwell. Should we close Cadwell? Put up a speed camera perhaps?
Knee jerk reactions have caused many to lose out on many things in life because of some armchair safety warriors who've never done anything exciting in their life.
I’m a huge fan of motorcycle racing. A large part of my family have mountaineer backgrounds, to me there has always seems to be a huge gap in how fatalities are treated between the two sports. Obviously the IOM is closer to home than Everest, but I don’t see comments about closing mountains and banning climbing after each unfortunate death.
I think we are more likey to see the sad loss of Touristenfahrten before the TT
I think we are more likey to see the sad loss of Touristenfahrten before the TT
black-k1 said:
It's the people on the Isle of Man that will save or stop the TT. They will decide if enough is enough, or if they want it to continue. As long as there are racers happy to race, and spectators happy to pay to see them to it then there is little else non-Manx persons can do.
I would think there is also an element of corporate influence.Companies don't like sponsoring events where people die. The association isn't good for business.
If companies don't sponsor the TT, the TT won't be able to go ahead because there won't be the money.
I'd like to see it continue, but also wonder how long it will be allowed to.
Some great comments here, all echoing my feelings and I suspect, the feelings of everyone involved in the event.
My point being is it better to make small changes incrementally from within than have a big change forced on us from without?
Even better than that though, is for everyone to mind their own business and leave us alone. But that's not exactly humanities forte these days.
Barriers in some of the well known danger spots might be ok, but I'd hate to separate spectators from the visceral thrill of watching the bikes whip past.
My point being is it better to make small changes incrementally from within than have a big change forced on us from without?
Even better than that though, is for everyone to mind their own business and leave us alone. But that's not exactly humanities forte these days.
Barriers in some of the well known danger spots might be ok, but I'd hate to separate spectators from the visceral thrill of watching the bikes whip past.
STR160 said:
If the TT gets cancelled because of 'safety', then all sports should be stopped also, because there is risk of injury or death in most.
All but a handful of IOM residents don't want it cancelled. The riders go into it willingly and well aware of the risks.
I race in Thundersport and someone died at Cadwell the other weekend...he wasn't the first death at Cadwell. Should we close Cadwell? Put up a speed camera perhaps?
Knee jerk reactions have caused many to lose out on many things in life because of some armchair safety warriors who've never done anything exciting in their life.
Exactly right. Great post. All but a handful of IOM residents don't want it cancelled. The riders go into it willingly and well aware of the risks.
I race in Thundersport and someone died at Cadwell the other weekend...he wasn't the first death at Cadwell. Should we close Cadwell? Put up a speed camera perhaps?
Knee jerk reactions have caused many to lose out on many things in life because of some armchair safety warriors who've never done anything exciting in their life.
Four competitive deaths this year with two more days of racing to go.
There is no way to stop it. Where the sidecar crashes and killed driver an passenger is a main road through town and also pretty much straight.
You can’t line every straight with barriers, especially when to do so would make the pavement inaccessible for weeks on end on a busy pedestrian route.
Top of my head there are also about 15 houses between the start and end of that crash. Each with a driveway and gate access. How on earth do you propose making that safe?
Ballagarey. He has gone straight into a gate pillar at 160mph. The marks where the tyre lost adhesion are only about 20 yards from where the bike hit the wal (and temporary barrier that is installed and removed for every session so the householder can use their drive.
People really need to consider the practicalities. Look out of your own front door and consider how you would make a 37 miles loop from there safe and still allow people to go about their normal lives. It’s impossible
There is no way to stop it. Where the sidecar crashes and killed driver an passenger is a main road through town and also pretty much straight.
You can’t line every straight with barriers, especially when to do so would make the pavement inaccessible for weeks on end on a busy pedestrian route.
Top of my head there are also about 15 houses between the start and end of that crash. Each with a driveway and gate access. How on earth do you propose making that safe?
Ballagarey. He has gone straight into a gate pillar at 160mph. The marks where the tyre lost adhesion are only about 20 yards from where the bike hit the wal (and temporary barrier that is installed and removed for every session so the householder can use their drive.
People really need to consider the practicalities. Look out of your own front door and consider how you would make a 37 miles loop from there safe and still allow people to go about their normal lives. It’s impossible
I suppose one way might be to limit the engine sizes used, but I think moto gp showed that the riders just take more risks in corners to keep the speeds high then potentially crash more.
As I understand it they’ve already moved spectators from places they’re likely to get injured.
Do you think the amount crashes this year may be partly due to covid and a long time away from racing?
As I understand it they’ve already moved spectators from places they’re likely to get injured.
Do you think the amount crashes this year may be partly due to covid and a long time away from racing?
Speed addicted said:
I suppose one way might be to limit the engine sizes used, but I think moto gp showed that the riders just take more risks in corners to keep the speeds high then potentially crash more.
As I understand it they’ve already moved spectators from places they’re likely to get injured.
Do you think the amount crashes this year may be partly due to covid and a long time away from racing?
Spectators are still in loads of places where they could be wiped out. The latest sidecar crash has made me reconsider where I watch in future because basically it show nowhere is safe.As I understand it they’ve already moved spectators from places they’re likely to get injured.
Do you think the amount crashes this year may be partly due to covid and a long time away from racing?
I don’t think the amount of crashes this year is any higher than normal.
Speed addicted said:
I suppose one way might be to limit the engine sizes used, but I think moto gp showed that the riders just take more risks in corners to keep the speeds high then potentially crash more.
As I understand it they’ve already moved spectators from places they’re likely to get injured.
Do you think the amount crashes this year may be partly due to covid and a long time away from racing?
I think the manufacturers in MotoGP just extracted more power when they reduced capacity, it's a prototype class compared to the TT. Saying that the Manx was/is limited to 750cc from memory but they'll still hit 170mph or so.As I understand it they’ve already moved spectators from places they’re likely to get injured.
Do you think the amount crashes this year may be partly due to covid and a long time away from racing?
The problem is the road furniture, but that is part of the draw.
Freakuk said:
I think the manufacturers in MotoGP just extracted more power when they reduced capacity, it's a prototype class compared to the TT. Saying that the Manx was/is limited to 750cc from memory but they'll still hit 170mph or so.
The problem is the road furniture, but that is part of the draw.
The Superstock and Senior races can be anything from 750cc to 1200cc (depends on number of cylinders).The problem is the road furniture, but that is part of the draw.
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