New motorcycle quality
Discussion
Well I don't want this to become a moaning session but I'd say it's more to do where they are made and the quality of the dealer rather than manufacturer.
Lucky enough to own a few different new bikes however the only one I was really disappointed with recently was a Honda. I bought before Covid a new Honda Monkey Bike just to mess around on and whilst reliable the quality was pretty shocking. I had a few warranty claims and a very disinterested main dealer. Whilst you could make the argument it was a "cheap" bike it wasn't that cheap for what it was really and I'd expected much better quality from owning a Honda before and a much better dealer experience than I got. Voted with my feet, sold it (surprisingly good price, more to do with timing) and I move on.
Lucky enough to own a few different new bikes however the only one I was really disappointed with recently was a Honda. I bought before Covid a new Honda Monkey Bike just to mess around on and whilst reliable the quality was pretty shocking. I had a few warranty claims and a very disinterested main dealer. Whilst you could make the argument it was a "cheap" bike it wasn't that cheap for what it was really and I'd expected much better quality from owning a Honda before and a much better dealer experience than I got. Voted with my feet, sold it (surprisingly good price, more to do with timing) and I move on.
stu67 said:
Well I don't want this to become a moaning session but I'd say it's more to do where they are made and the quality of the dealer rather than manufacturer.
Lucky enough to own a few different new bikes however the only one I was really disappointed with recently was a Honda. I bought before Covid a new Honda Monkey Bike just to mess around on and whilst reliable the quality was pretty shocking. I had a few warranty claims and a very disinterested main dealer. Whilst you could make the argument it was a "cheap" bike it wasn't that cheap for what it was really and I'd expected much better quality from owning a Honda before and a much better de,aler experience than I got. Voted with my feet, sold it (surprisingly good price, more to do with timing) and I move on.
I had the same view. I used to sell Honda's in the 1980s and they were generally solid in terms of quality. I bought an MSX125 in 2013, now built in Thailand and after 5000 miles, I had one warranty claim, I had to repaint the silencer and the chain and sprockets were knicker elastic and cheese. It was certainly not cheap compared to other 125s.Lucky enough to own a few different new bikes however the only one I was really disappointed with recently was a Honda. I bought before Covid a new Honda Monkey Bike just to mess around on and whilst reliable the quality was pretty shocking. I had a few warranty claims and a very disinterested main dealer. Whilst you could make the argument it was a "cheap" bike it wasn't that cheap for what it was really and I'd expected much better quality from owning a Honda before and a much better de,aler experience than I got. Voted with my feet, sold it (surprisingly good price, more to do with timing) and I move on.
However, the new Suzuki SV650S I replaced it with, in 2016, was well built (in Japan, I believe).
My KTM 1290 GT has been of excellent quality. The paint is thick and hasn't chipped off anywhere or worn through, even on the engine. Everything still works and feels tight and as it did when I bought it. I had to have the radiator repaired after a stone hit it and caused a pinhole leak but apart from that, despite not being washed very often and being abused nothing has stopped working or gone wrong.
I guess it depends on what you mean by "quality".
My 2015 Ducati Scrambler has been, so far, completely reliable. It has never missed a beat and has always been immense fun.
That said, the finish is very ordinary. After six years there are plenty of corroded areas and some parts are distinctly shabby. But nothing that really diminishes from the experience (unless you're a detailing wonk).
If you want reliability, I suspect there won't be many modern bikes that disappoint. If you want enduringly shiny, dream on.
k
LuS1fer said:
stu67 said:
Well I don't want this to become a moaning session but I'd say it's more to do where they are made and the quality of the dealer rather than manufacturer.
Lucky enough to own a few different new bikes however the only one I was really disappointed with recently was a Honda. I bought before Covid a new Honda Monkey Bike just to mess around on and whilst reliable the quality was pretty shocking. I had a few warranty claims and a very disinterested main dealer. Whilst you could make the argument it was a "cheap" bike it wasn't that cheap for what it was really and I'd expected much better quality from owning a Honda before and a much better de,aler experience than I got. Voted with my feet, sold it (surprisingly good price, more to do with timing) and I move on.
I had the same view. I used to sell Honda's in the 1980s and they were generally solid in terms of quality. I bought an MSX125 in 2013, now built in Thailand and after 5000 miles, I had one warranty claim, I had to repaint the silencer and the chain and sprockets were knicker elastic and cheese. It was certainly not cheap compared to other 125s.Lucky enough to own a few different new bikes however the only one I was really disappointed with recently was a Honda. I bought before Covid a new Honda Monkey Bike just to mess around on and whilst reliable the quality was pretty shocking. I had a few warranty claims and a very disinterested main dealer. Whilst you could make the argument it was a "cheap" bike it wasn't that cheap for what it was really and I'd expected much better quality from owning a Honda before and a much better de,aler experience than I got. Voted with my feet, sold it (surprisingly good price, more to do with timing) and I move on.
However, the new Suzuki SV650S I replaced it with, in 2016, was well built (in Japan, I believe).
My mum has just put an order in for a new Kawasaki. Hopefully they fair better in the quality rankings!
I think it's the same as cars though. They're trying to limit price hikes so bikes are still saleable. I don't think there would be too many happy people if bikes that currently cost 10k went up to 11k for the same bike as much as the new model also costing 10k but with quality compromises they hope you won't notice. Thinner paint, lower quality plastics, maybe even cheaper tyres and bulbs. Over the span of a few hundred thousand bikes, that'll add up for manufacturers. There are more components in cars so more to cut corners from. Carpets in cars seem to be much cheaper feeling than they used to be and weld crumbs and dog hair into them now.
What I don't like about modern bikes is the new tablet speedos. Just looks like someone has stuck a cheap smart phone between the handle bars. I know it's all digital and lit up with a billion bits of info on it, blah, blah, blah but I much prefer real analogue dials with individual designs.
I think it's the same as cars though. They're trying to limit price hikes so bikes are still saleable. I don't think there would be too many happy people if bikes that currently cost 10k went up to 11k for the same bike as much as the new model also costing 10k but with quality compromises they hope you won't notice. Thinner paint, lower quality plastics, maybe even cheaper tyres and bulbs. Over the span of a few hundred thousand bikes, that'll add up for manufacturers. There are more components in cars so more to cut corners from. Carpets in cars seem to be much cheaper feeling than they used to be and weld crumbs and dog hair into them now.
What I don't like about modern bikes is the new tablet speedos. Just looks like someone has stuck a cheap smart phone between the handle bars. I know it's all digital and lit up with a billion bits of info on it, blah, blah, blah but I much prefer real analogue dials with individual designs.
<insert usual mumblings of my 30 year old, 100k Honda being of excellent quality>
>used in all weathers, etc>
<mates KTM is like triggers broom>
<others mates BMW is rusted to f**k, and it only does 1000 miles a year and lives in a garage>
<Honda, yadda, yadda... went down hill recently though, all about the bottom line... >
As you were, just ignore me!
>used in all weathers, etc>
<mates KTM is like triggers broom>
<others mates BMW is rusted to f**k, and it only does 1000 miles a year and lives in a garage>
<Honda, yadda, yadda... went down hill recently though, all about the bottom line... >
As you were, just ignore me!
I think modern bikes are better quality than those of yesteryear. However, I could do without unnecessary electronic gizmos that mightn’t last the reliability test of time.
RazerSauber said:
What I don't like about modern bikes is the new tablet speedos. Just looks like someone has stuck a cheap smart phone between the handle bars. I know it's all digital and lit up with a billion bits of info on it, blah, blah, blah but I much prefer real analogue dials with individual designs.
Me, too.This is going back a few years, & also two very different models, but I had a Yamaha WR250X, made in Japan: totally reliable, really good finish & it just felt 'quality'. I then had an XT660X. I think it was made in France with various Italian bits. It stalled a lot, fixings went rusty & the forks leaked on several occasions. Oh, & the spokes rusted.
I'm not sure if Japanese quality is always the best, but some of the things I've seen, like Indian built KTMs, have looked pretty shoddy in comparison to Jap stuff.
I read an article recently that Yamaha currently have an exemplary reliability record & one of the lowest product recall instances in the industry.
I'm not sure if Japanese quality is always the best, but some of the things I've seen, like Indian built KTMs, have looked pretty shoddy in comparison to Jap stuff.
I read an article recently that Yamaha currently have an exemplary reliability record & one of the lowest product recall instances in the industry.
klootzak said:
I guess it depends on what you mean by "quality".
My 2015 Ducati Scrambler has been, so far, completely reliable. It has never missed a beat and has always been immense fun.
That said, the finish is very ordinary. After six years there are plenty of corroded areas and some parts are distinctly shabby. But nothing that really diminishes from the experience (unless you're a detailing wonk).
I remember reading that the oem cost to Ducati for the rear scrambler shock was something ridiculous like 20USD. I expect most manufacturers are the same. The parts are so cheaply made these days it’s unreal.My 2015 Ducati Scrambler has been, so far, completely reliable. It has never missed a beat and has always been immense fun.
That said, the finish is very ordinary. After six years there are plenty of corroded areas and some parts are distinctly shabby. But nothing that really diminishes from the experience (unless you're a detailing wonk).
Does anyone buy a bike due to it's "fit and finish" ?
I love KTM but they generally feel cheap in the finish department but tend to have good quality suspension and brakes, when I changed to a Speed Triple R I admit I was pleased with the better finish but that wasn't much of a factor - the smooth, linear, torquey engine was the main draw for me
I love KTM but they generally feel cheap in the finish department but tend to have good quality suspension and brakes, when I changed to a Speed Triple R I admit I was pleased with the better finish but that wasn't much of a factor - the smooth, linear, torquey engine was the main draw for me
Sea Demon said:
2018 Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports - terrible quality, bad welds, rusty frames, paint flaking from the frame etc etc etc - relaible though 
Ouch! That’s an eye opener then. A used Africa Twin is on my ‘want list’ for an extended tour so it’s disappointing to hear the quality isn’t what I was hoping.Some interesting replies.
I've just decided not to proceed with the purchase of a second hand Harley registered in 2020 and with less than one thousand miles on the basis that corrosion had already set in even though the Bike was not ridden in the winter months. Several others that I have seen exhibit the same problem to varying degrees.
This contrasts with my first Harley, purchased in 1980, which had been treated pretty badly by its first owner and ridden through winter on salted roads but which came up almost like new after maintenance and cleaning.
I don't think that the quality is as good now and yes that does bother me when I am asked for a lot of money for a bike or car.
i think that the outsourcing of manufacturing may be part of the problem.
I've just decided not to proceed with the purchase of a second hand Harley registered in 2020 and with less than one thousand miles on the basis that corrosion had already set in even though the Bike was not ridden in the winter months. Several others that I have seen exhibit the same problem to varying degrees.
This contrasts with my first Harley, purchased in 1980, which had been treated pretty badly by its first owner and ridden through winter on salted roads but which came up almost like new after maintenance and cleaning.
I don't think that the quality is as good now and yes that does bother me when I am asked for a lot of money for a bike or car.
i think that the outsourcing of manufacturing may be part of the problem.
I had a few years of BMW moyorcycle experience. A 2007 K1200R and a 2010 K1300GT to be exact a few years ago. Everything paint, fit, finish and component wise was UTTERLY APPALLING. I've NEVER seen bikes so badly finished. They genuinely ruined biking for me for a while. I ended up spending a LOT of time on my 72k 2006 CBF500 (and loving It) whilst the BMW languished in the garage. I even had to have an oil feed pipe mating surface welded due to the level of corrosion!
I ended up chopping in the K for a 2010 VFR1200F. Totally bereft of toys but built like a brick s
thouse with the best paint finish I've ever seen on a bike. There is NO corrosion apart from a small amount of bubbling on the footpeg hangers where the finish has worn away from years of boots rubbing. I have TOTAL confidence in it's reliability.
I have seen multiple new BMWs including an 18 month old R1200/1250R with a peeling final drive and a 21 plate S1000R that looked like it was pulled out of the bloody North Sea! I genuinely cannot understand how they get it SO wrong. I've even read multiple reports of the S1000XR having a porus sump!
I ended up chopping in the K for a 2010 VFR1200F. Totally bereft of toys but built like a brick s
thouse with the best paint finish I've ever seen on a bike. There is NO corrosion apart from a small amount of bubbling on the footpeg hangers where the finish has worn away from years of boots rubbing. I have TOTAL confidence in it's reliability.I have seen multiple new BMWs including an 18 month old R1200/1250R with a peeling final drive and a 21 plate S1000R that looked like it was pulled out of the bloody North Sea! I genuinely cannot understand how they get it SO wrong. I've even read multiple reports of the S1000XR having a porus sump!
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