PCP end charges

[anonymous-user]

Any of you incurred end of PCP charges for 'condition'?

I got asked last night about what standard the finance co. expect a bike to be returned in (which is also relevant to me as I'm currently doing my first PCP with a Forza 350 that'll likely be returned in 2 yrs).

I'll likely early-terminate before the 37 months is up to avoid having to do a service & MOT. My take on it is that I'm due to pay my excess mileage charges and will obviously need to pay out if there's any clear damage due to drops etc. But I won't be paying out for minor daily-use scratches, rust, stone-chips & so on. I wash it every couple of weeks but it's my daily commuter, is used through winter & I'm under no obligation to waste money on ACF50 or other rust inhibitors. I'll service it at years 1+2 but I did the 600 mile run-in myself as every dealer within a 100 mile radius of me couldn't give me a service slot for between 5-8 weeks. Again I consider this an unreasonable contractual term when I did 600 miles in the first week I'd had it. It's not my fault the appointed dealers are unable to provide a timely service.

It'll look well used when I hand it back but I'm sure I read some 'legal article' a few years ago in a magazine that said it's unreasonable for a finance co to expect the customer to not ride a bike through winter that they're paying monthly for, & it was also unreasonable for the finance co to expect anything above a reasonably regular washing.

What's your experience? I guess it could be very different depending on whether you're PCP'ing a commuter scooter or a top-end BMW.

[Mandat]

The excess mileage & damage charges would only apply if you are thinking of handing back the bike.

If you make the final payment and then either keep, part-ex or sell it on, then the charges won't apply.

Do you know how much the bike is worth, compared to the final payment?

[anonymous-user]

Mandat said:

The excess mileage & damage charges would only apply if you are thinking of handing back the bike.

I usually buy my bikes outright & keep them mint, but the Forza's my first PCP & is purely a commuter that I'm in no way precious about. Love it, but it was bought with the intention of keeping it through most of the PCP term & early terminating it at a suitable point towards the end.

Private car sales can be a pain. Bike sales doubly so. Scooter sales 10x so and they attract the silly offer 'want something for nothing' brigade where I live, so PCP'ing it works best for me in this instance & selling it on becomes the finance co's hassle.

[dibblecorse]

Expect to get chipped for that missing first service, your agreement with them will have you down as committed to servicing it as per the manufacturers schedule, plus the excess mileage.

This https://www.blackhorse.co.uk/content/bbp/repositor... is the return guide from Black Horse which is virtually industry standard, your won finance company will have a version of this that you can request.

[anonymous-user]

dibblecorse said:

Expect to get chipped for that missing first service, your agreement with them will have you down as committed to servicing it as per the manufacturers schedule, plus the excess mileage.

∆∆ Agreed. I have serviced it which was basically an oil change & general check-over. I documented it via photos & receipts, so I tried my best to comply with the schedule. I defo won't be paying any penalty for that home-service though; not when every dealer around me expected me to park the Forza up & not use it for 5-8 wks until they decided they had a service slot. I can't see the finance co getting anywhere with that one... defo an unfair contractual term when they're charging me monthly for the use of the bike but it can't be used without breaking the servicing terms of the agreement.
The main dealers have always been the worst part of biking for me, but that's the price to be paid for buying new.

[hiccy18]

If you're changing it, trade it in before the PCP ends and use the residual as a deposit for its replacement.

[anonymous-user]

hiccy18 said:

If you're changing it, trade it in before the PCP ends and use the residual as a deposit for its replacement.

Might not trade it in. I don't usually like PCP but advantage in this case is that I can hand it back & walk away.

I think losing 60% of the value of a year round commuter bike over 3 yrs is reasonable? Based on the current list price, that'd cost £3420 on an owned bike.

The PCP costs £3684 over 3 yrs but I'd only need to lay down a deposit up-front & come sale time I wouldn't have the advertising costs & having to deal with the penniless chancers, jewellery store robbers, & dreamers that want a test-ride.

If I don't hand it back I'll maybe keep it & take it to Spain to replace my PCX.

[podman]

You should have been given a leaflet explaining the conditions of return the bike and what is considered "damage" and "wear and tear"

My experience ha sbeen BMW didnt care much at all what condition the bike was in as long as it wasnt major damage, wear and tear was accepted, as was corrosion.

When I bought my Triumph, I was given a clear chart explaining what was , what...The dealership manager also said he would mark value down for corrosion/rust come trade in time...Was clearly hinting at not using it all year round.

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

Seems to be just me thinking the OP is a pita customer.

[mak]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Seems to be just me thinking the OP is a pita customer.

Not at all, he's asked a question then answered all his own concerns with his own reply demanding his needs and what he expects the acceptable outcome to be

[_Neal_]

Romford4 said:

dibblecorse said:

Expect to get chipped for that missing first service, your agreement with them will have you down as committed to servicing it as per the manufacturers schedule, plus the excess mileage.

?? Agreed. I have serviced it which was basically an oil change & general check-over. I documented it via photos & receipts, so I tried my best to comply with the schedule. I defo won't be paying any penalty for that home-service though; not when every dealer around me expected me to park the Forza up & not use it for 5-8 wks until they decided they had a service slot. I can't see the finance co getting anywhere with that one... defo an unfair contractual term when they're charging me monthly for the use of the bike but it can't be used without breaking the servicing terms of the agreement.
The main dealers have always been the worst part of biking for me, but that's the price to be paid for buying new.

But you could have had it serviced at a non-main dealer and documented that? For most people a home service reduces the value of a bike (as it would not have a fully-stamped book) but a non-main dealer service doesn't, which may be why you get chipped.

It doesn't seem an unfair term to me - the finance company don't guarantee main dealer availability and (as I understand it at least) legally you don't have to use a main dealer for servicing to retain warranty etc. But if you choose to do it yourself for convenience, and "try your best" to match the service schedule, it's your look out, in my view.

[Driver101]

You can get the bike serviced at any VAT registered garage. It doesn't need to be a main dealer.

Servicing the bike yourself is a breach of the finance agreement and voided the warranty.

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

Driver101 said:

You can get the bike serviced at any VAT registered garage. It doesn't need to be a main dealer.

Servicing the bike yourself is a breach of the finance agreement and voided the warranty.

Bikes dont come under block exemption. You need to get serviced by main dealer to keep the warranty.

[hepy]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Seems to be just me thinking the OP is a pita customer.

Loads of people ask the same questions on the car lease forums, and it can be a worry when you lease or PCP the first time. Shows the OP is sensible to ask so they can bear it in mind.

Worth checking some of the car forums for advice, but the poster who mentioned to ask for the returns guide is spot on.

Returned a few lease vehicles myself, and as long as any damage is within guidelines, you'll be fine. Oh and tajke loads of pictures just prior to collection.

[_Neal_]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Bikes dont come under block exemption. You need to get serviced by main dealer to keep the warranty.

Interesting, thanks for that - every day is a school day

[anonymous-user]

_Neal_ said:

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

Bikes dont come under block exemption. You need to get serviced by main dealer to keep the warranty.

Interesting, thanks for that - every day is a school day

Foregoing the warranty is the risk I've taken multiple times in the past but always on bikes I've bought out-right. With PCP it's a different story.
I can't lay a bike up for 5-8 wks just to wait on the main dealer to get their st together, so I self service. Once the 600 mile one is done by me & the warranty's popped then there's little point in taking it to the dealer for subsequent services.
Car owners can use a VAT registered garage but that only came about from lobbying from motorist groups & continues under a voluntary agreement post expiry of block exemption. Can you imagine a car dealer saying "Oh I'm sorry Mr Smith, you're using your new Focus too much. You'll have to lay it up for 8 weeks until we can be bothered to service it"? No-one would buy Fords, simple as.
My nearest Honda bike dealer doesn't even use trained technicians for basic bike servicing.... they repeatedly advertise in their window for 'servicing assistants who have basic bike maintenance skills - no qualifications required'. I can service my bikes to at least that standard so where's the benefit of paying the dealer?

[Abdul Abulbul Amir]

You need to look at your contract in regards to whether a main dealer service is required. If it is you'll have to argue the toss with the lessor, let us know how that goes.

Also, if you're doing such large mileage you probably should have been a little more proactive in getting the service booked up beforehand.

[_Neal_]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

You need to look at your contract in regards to whether a main dealer service is required. If it is you'll have to argue the toss with the lessor, let us know how that goes.

Also, if you're doing such large mileage you probably should have been a little more proactive in getting the service booked up beforehand.

Agreed on all counts - you took the risk and that's on you.

You could have contacted the lessor and complained at the time/had them sign-off the self servicing, but you didn't. Maybe your "better to apologise than ask for permission" approach will work, maybe it won't, but the situation isn't the lessor's fault or an unfair contract term, in my view.

[anonymous-user]

Abdul Abulbul Amir said:

if you're doing such large mileage you probably should have been a little more proactive in getting the service booked up beforehand.

Easier when it comes to the annual services but when I bought my bike the delivery time to the dealer & then to me was confirmed 4 days in advance (having been given a 2-4 month window). Dealers wouldn't book the service without a registration number to enter into their system. Catch 22 when I did 600 miles in 2 days. As a contract worker I can put 2-3k miles on my bikes one month, then 0 miles the next as I'm abroad. Servicing's never been an issue in 30+ yrs of car ownership, but bike dealers are a ball-ache - understaffed, under-skilled & totally inflexible. I could understand a longer delay with a Yamaha R1M but not with commuter tackle such as NCs or scooters. As an industry they're committing suicide. Little wonder few young people are getting into bikes.
I self serviced the 600-miler & might continue to self service if the dealers can't. Forgotten the warranty as I've done many times before. Bike will be used through winter, on salted roads & get a bucket & sponge wash every 2-3 wks. Excess mileage charges are no problem. Charges for non main dealer services when the dealers are unable to do them ain't on & that'd be the deal-breaker for me getting my 7th Honda or financing another through them.

[anonymous-user]

podman said:

When I bought my Triumph.................. The dealership manager also said he would mark value down for corrosion/rust come trade in time...Was clearly hinting at not using it all year round.

LOL, talk about self-interest! I'd have walked at that point & found a more realistic dealer. The 'legal advice' article I read in a bike mag years ago said that the only onus on the rider is to wash the bike reasonably regularly. Avoiding corrosion was not realistic & if a bike was generally looked after then excessive corrosion was a manufacturing issue of poor finishing on components. There's no way a manufacturer/dealer would get anywhere legally with such a claim.