Value of bike gear & winter-kit
Discussion
I keep reading about dedicated bike gear and particularly over the last few months the merits of winter-kit from the likes of Gebring & Rukka, Gortex, heated gloves, toe warmers etc, and none of it comes cheap. Does anyone actually buy this stuff for daily usage or is it the preserve of the Euan & Charlies?
My bike & kit: Owned bikes from 250-750cc over the years & have had varying commutes from 26 miles (round) across London to 90 miles in rural Scotland. Favourites were my CRF250M & my NC750X, however after a dalliance with a PCX125 I’ve seen the light and now have a Forza 350 on a 41 mile daily commute – 60% NSL dual-carriageway & 40% 50/40/30/20 limits through Edinburgh. The Forza is THE BEST tool for this and even beats the NC IMHO. Wished I’d bought a scooter decades ago.
My gear is modest: Caberg helmet, RST Alpha jacket, Sartso jeans, & basic bike gloves. I wear the jeans ½ the time and haven’t worn the boots in years (usually wear casual Rockports instead). I don’t ride when the ice is down but every other winter day the above kit is supplemented by: Hand-muffs on the Forza (I wear summer gloves in them), an £18 heated gilet from Ali-Express with a £14 power-bank from Amazon, and a fleecy neck buff. Yeah I get cold legs but the rest of me is fine.
I know a couple of couriers who, beyond a reasonable helmet & bike jacket, get the rest of their gear from army surplus or workwear shops and can’t fathom why anyone would fork out £1000+ on a jacket & trouser combo. I assume it’s a case of expensive bike = buy expensive kit; cheaper bikes & daily drivers = whatever kits is sturdy, works & is cheap?
My bike & kit: Owned bikes from 250-750cc over the years & have had varying commutes from 26 miles (round) across London to 90 miles in rural Scotland. Favourites were my CRF250M & my NC750X, however after a dalliance with a PCX125 I’ve seen the light and now have a Forza 350 on a 41 mile daily commute – 60% NSL dual-carriageway & 40% 50/40/30/20 limits through Edinburgh. The Forza is THE BEST tool for this and even beats the NC IMHO. Wished I’d bought a scooter decades ago.
My gear is modest: Caberg helmet, RST Alpha jacket, Sartso jeans, & basic bike gloves. I wear the jeans ½ the time and haven’t worn the boots in years (usually wear casual Rockports instead). I don’t ride when the ice is down but every other winter day the above kit is supplemented by: Hand-muffs on the Forza (I wear summer gloves in them), an £18 heated gilet from Ali-Express with a £14 power-bank from Amazon, and a fleecy neck buff. Yeah I get cold legs but the rest of me is fine.
I know a couple of couriers who, beyond a reasonable helmet & bike jacket, get the rest of their gear from army surplus or workwear shops and can’t fathom why anyone would fork out £1000+ on a jacket & trouser combo. I assume it’s a case of expensive bike = buy expensive kit; cheaper bikes & daily drivers = whatever kits is sturdy, works & is cheap?
It's probably good to read Black-k1's thread that's active at the moment to see why people make the choices they do. 
I used to commute full time and so spent on a Halvarssons getup. And proper boots, gloves etc.
Now I don't commute but still use that. I have full leathers for fun summer time. I've got soon to be swapped-for-better-ones Rokker bike jeans for local stuff. I always wear bike boots as my ankles are pretty complicated bits of kit. Like my wrists. Except I wear decent gauntlet gloves on my hands and not boots
.
I used to commute full time and so spent on a Halvarssons getup. And proper boots, gloves etc.
Now I don't commute but still use that. I have full leathers for fun summer time. I've got soon to be swapped-for-better-ones Rokker bike jeans for local stuff. I always wear bike boots as my ankles are pretty complicated bits of kit. Like my wrists. Except I wear decent gauntlet gloves on my hands and not boots
.I commute along as its not icey.
Granted its only 12 miles but I just wear my RST Tracktech evo leather trousers and an armoured hoodie.
Cold/wet? Just put cheapo windproof over.
Never failed me yet.
I noticed that lots of the MCN long term reviews on trips in Europe do similar.
Certainly no absolute need to spend a fortune.
Regular commuting mean any gear gets battered anyway. Put away damp, thrown in a locker, scuffed on garage wall etc. I'd rather replace cheaply than get all precious.
Granted its only 12 miles but I just wear my RST Tracktech evo leather trousers and an armoured hoodie.
Cold/wet? Just put cheapo windproof over.
Never failed me yet.
I noticed that lots of the MCN long term reviews on trips in Europe do similar.
Certainly no absolute need to spend a fortune.
Regular commuting mean any gear gets battered anyway. Put away damp, thrown in a locker, scuffed on garage wall etc. I'd rather replace cheaply than get all precious.
I commute every day in a (expensive for me) Dane Goretex Pro jacket paired with kevlar jeans, and a pair of cheap Millets waterproof overtrousers.
The jacket is excellent, and has stayed waterproof for four years of near daily use. The Goretex Pro means that the material doesn't get soaked when it rains, which means i don't have to put a cold, wet and heavy jacket on for the journey home from work. I'd like matching trousers but struggle to justify the expense. Like you, i've got bar muffs (Givi, in my case) for the cold days which are far more effective than heated grips or winter gloves.
If i were commuting daily on a scooter, i'd be tempted by one of Tucano Urbano's leg cover apron things to keep the lower half dry and warmer.
The jacket is excellent, and has stayed waterproof for four years of near daily use. The Goretex Pro means that the material doesn't get soaked when it rains, which means i don't have to put a cold, wet and heavy jacket on for the journey home from work. I'd like matching trousers but struggle to justify the expense. Like you, i've got bar muffs (Givi, in my case) for the cold days which are far more effective than heated grips or winter gloves.
If i were commuting daily on a scooter, i'd be tempted by one of Tucano Urbano's leg cover apron things to keep the lower half dry and warmer.
Bike kit serves two purposes, beyond keeping you decent, it provides weather protection and it provides accident protection.
The first is easy. If you are warm enough, cool enough, dry enough and otherwise comfortable then it's done its job. I find that keeping dry enough (completely dry is enough for me) is a challenge, often not because the materials used don't keep the water out, but because the water can find its way past the outside layers through joins that the neck (particularly bad) the waist, the wrists and the ankles. I pay more if I think there is a better chance of kit keeping those areas rain free.
The second, accident protection, is much harder. As a general rule of thumb, better protection costs more money and the best protection costs lots of money. The problem with accident protection is that you don't need it until you need it, at which point it can be extremely important. Those buying the likes of army surplus are banking on the fact they won't need much in the way of accident protection. They may be right, but they may also be wrong.
For me, I can afford the kit that offers better accident protection and is comfortable (made to measure).I'm happy to pay the extra for the extra protection. I then add a weather proof outer layer to that to keep the rain out. Where adding a second layer is difficult (gloves, boots) I use Gore-Tex as it’s the only thing that I’ve found consistently works.
The first is easy. If you are warm enough, cool enough, dry enough and otherwise comfortable then it's done its job. I find that keeping dry enough (completely dry is enough for me) is a challenge, often not because the materials used don't keep the water out, but because the water can find its way past the outside layers through joins that the neck (particularly bad) the waist, the wrists and the ankles. I pay more if I think there is a better chance of kit keeping those areas rain free.
The second, accident protection, is much harder. As a general rule of thumb, better protection costs more money and the best protection costs lots of money. The problem with accident protection is that you don't need it until you need it, at which point it can be extremely important. Those buying the likes of army surplus are banking on the fact they won't need much in the way of accident protection. They may be right, but they may also be wrong.
For me, I can afford the kit that offers better accident protection and is comfortable (made to measure).I'm happy to pay the extra for the extra protection. I then add a weather proof outer layer to that to keep the rain out. Where adding a second layer is difficult (gloves, boots) I use Gore-Tex as it’s the only thing that I’ve found consistently works.
You can get hurt falling off a "scooter" just as badly as falling off a bike, my mum (over 20 years riding experience) was knocked off her scooter a few years ago and had all the skin off the top of her foot torn off because she was wearing 'normal' shoes. I have a video if you want to see it - very useful for seeing how tendons move around.
After having several offs of my own - both with and without armour and 'hardened' protective gear - I won't ride without decent armoured bike gear (whatever I'm on) because I've seen how frail both 'normal' clothes and the human body are, and I don't like pain any more. But that's every person's choice to make for themselves.
After having several offs of my own - both with and without armour and 'hardened' protective gear - I won't ride without decent armoured bike gear (whatever I'm on) because I've seen how frail both 'normal' clothes and the human body are, and I don't like pain any more. But that's every person's choice to make for themselves.
I can only give feedback on my riding which is social but all year round. It was PH that said about Gerbing and heated clothing
Since doing that the riding experience is completely different. Same with more winter/wet/touring tyres in colder weather
Being able to do 100-150 miles mid winter 2 degrees and chat in your group on the coms with decent levels of grip and complete warmth goes a long way
If I was commuting Id be thinking the same
Since doing that the riding experience is completely different. Same with more winter/wet/touring tyres in colder weather
Being able to do 100-150 miles mid winter 2 degrees and chat in your group on the coms with decent levels of grip and complete warmth goes a long way
If I was commuting Id be thinking the same
I've bought enough cheap kit that doesn't do what it claims it will do, doesn't last when you use it a lot and is generally not as comfortable or durable as something that costs a bit more. Protection in the event of an accident is a bit of a grey area but it's also something I'm very aware of and try to purchase decent protection in the hope I never have to use it.
I have a Rukka suit and gloves for the all year round commute and longer bike tours.
Got it 8 years ago.. it's still fresh as a daisy and still watertight.
It has cost me me approx £250 a year so far, with plenty of life left - pretty good value for money.
I have some mates that have had to replace cheaper suits and clothes over and over again in that time, sure they've spent more than me overall.
Got it 8 years ago.. it's still fresh as a daisy and still watertight.
It has cost me me approx £250 a year so far, with plenty of life left - pretty good value for money.
I have some mates that have had to replace cheaper suits and clothes over and over again in that time, sure they've spent more than me overall.
I bought the laminated Bering Balistik suit a few years ago for a total of about £500.
I was sick of drop liner gear wetting out.
I did the Dragon rally in it this year and it was almost OK. The trousers were 100% waterproof as I'd just proofed them but the jacket leaked slightly but I hadn't ever proofed it. This was from Reading to North Wales and back in CONSTANT heavy rain for two days.
I also had Gerbing XRL gloves I bought two years ago that TOTALLY failed re waterproofing. Absolute bag of s
te in the rain. I almost had to get picked up as my hands were so cold and wet.
I'd stick with muffs and heated grips if I were you. At least that way your hands are pretty much guaranteed to stay dry even with a st pair of gloves.
I'd never go back to drop liner stuff as its bloody awful. Cheapish laminated is where it's at.
I think the price of Rukka etc is absolutely obscene. You've really got to be on a different planet to spend that much on something off the shelf. I've heard good things about hideout leathers and textiles though but again at a 2k price tag - albeit custom fit. If I was commuting frequently at high speeds (and rich) I might consider hideout due to the increased protection over off the shelf stuff.
I was sick of drop liner gear wetting out.
I did the Dragon rally in it this year and it was almost OK. The trousers were 100% waterproof as I'd just proofed them but the jacket leaked slightly but I hadn't ever proofed it. This was from Reading to North Wales and back in CONSTANT heavy rain for two days.
I also had Gerbing XRL gloves I bought two years ago that TOTALLY failed re waterproofing. Absolute bag of s
te in the rain. I almost had to get picked up as my hands were so cold and wet.I'd stick with muffs and heated grips if I were you. At least that way your hands are pretty much guaranteed to stay dry even with a s
t pair of gloves.I'd never go back to drop liner stuff as its bloody awful. Cheapish laminated is where it's at.
I think the price of Rukka etc is absolutely obscene. You've really got to be on a different planet to spend that much on something off the shelf. I've heard good things about hideout leathers and textiles though but again at a 2k price tag - albeit custom fit. If I was commuting frequently at high speeds (and rich) I might consider hideout due to the increased protection over off the shelf stuff.
I went and bought a pair of Rokker adventure jeans to replace the RST jeans I have used the last 2 years..
According to the blurb.they are 100% waterproof etc so matched up with my airbag jacket I'm hoping the investment turns out to be worth it and I never need to find out if the protection works.
But at £350 for the jeans alone they will really need to do me a min of 5 years for my man maths to work .
According to the blurb.they are 100% waterproof etc so matched up with my airbag jacket I'm hoping the investment turns out to be worth it and I never need to find out if the protection works.
But at £350 for the jeans alone they will really need to do me a min of 5 years for my man maths to work .
I've got a cupboard full of expensive gear yet I never wear it apart from the Furygan vented armoured jacket for summer.
Too much of an arse.
It's old Arai, armoured textile jacket from 2009 and a pair of magnum classic boots, years old.
I have just bought some heated gloves £180 ouch and I'm currently on a Vespa 300 so muffs, a screen and one of those skirt things. Stops my feet and legs getting wet and cold.
That cupboard has a pair of Sidis, Furygan leather racing trousers, Furygan over trousers with armour and a lovely Furygan leather jacket in Kangaroo hide.
Smells nice in there
Too much of an arse.
It's old Arai, armoured textile jacket from 2009 and a pair of magnum classic boots, years old.
I have just bought some heated gloves £180 ouch and I'm currently on a Vespa 300 so muffs, a screen and one of those skirt things. Stops my feet and legs getting wet and cold.
That cupboard has a pair of Sidis, Furygan leather racing trousers, Furygan over trousers with armour and a lovely Furygan leather jacket in Kangaroo hide.
Smells nice in there
Price and protection aren't always related. E.g. Rukka clothing is costly yet far from the most protective. Only Rukka's Kingsley suit is AA-rated, the middle protection rating. The rest of Rukka's range gets no protection rating (!) or the lowest protection score (a single 'A'). For instance, the new Nivala 2 suit only has an A-rating (the lowest possible protection score) yet costs over £2k.
In contrast, Scott Leathers' New Road jacket (£315) and Road Airflow jacket (£295) are among very few textiles to achieve the highest possible CE protection rating (EN 13595 level 2). They cost a fraction of most Rukka gear. And while Scott Leathers' website and product photography are crap, I know first-hand that their jackets are superb in reality.
In contrast, Scott Leathers' New Road jacket (£315) and Road Airflow jacket (£295) are among very few textiles to achieve the highest possible CE protection rating (EN 13595 level 2). They cost a fraction of most Rukka gear. And while Scott Leathers' website and product photography are crap, I know first-hand that their jackets are superb in reality.
Romford4 said:
I wear the jeans ½ the time and haven’t worn the boots in years (usually wear casual Rockports instead).
I recommend reading this advice: Feet first or suffer the consequencesRockBurner said:
....my mum (over 20 years riding experience) was knocked off her scooter a few years ago and had all the skin off the top of her foot torn off because she was wearing 'normal' shoes. I have a video if you want to see it - very useful for seeing how tendons move around.
Have seen the exact same injury when one of the warehouse lads had his foot run over by a pallet/cage truck. Not pretty but he didn't wear his trainers on the job again!As a teenager I used to think that 'de-gloving' in a motorcycle accident mean your gloves were pulled/ripped off in a slide & you'd suffered a hand injury. Didn't realise that the 'glove' was actually the skin & flesh of your hand
Salted_Peanut said:
Price and protection aren't always related. E.g. Rukka clothing is costly yet far from the most protective. Only Rukka's Kingsley suit is AA-rated, the middle protection rating. The rest of Rukka's range gets no protection rating (!) or the lowest protection score (a single 'A'). For instance, the new Nivala 2 suit only has an A-rating (the lowest possible protection score) yet costs over £2k.
In contrast, Scott Leathers' New Road jacket (£315) and Road Airflow jacket (£295) are among very few textiles to achieve the highest possible CE protection rating (EN 13595 level 2). They cost a fraction of most Rukka gear. And while Scott Leathers' website and product photography are crap, I know first-hand that their jackets are superb in reality.
In contrast, Scott Leathers' New Road jacket (£315) and Road Airflow jacket (£295) are among very few textiles to achieve the highest possible CE protection rating (EN 13595 level 2). They cost a fraction of most Rukka gear. And while Scott Leathers' website and product photography are crap, I know first-hand that their jackets are superb in reality.
Romford4 said:
I wear the jeans ½ the time and haven’t worn the boots in years (usually wear casual Rockports instead).
I recommend reading this advice: Feet first or suffer the consequences
the value of good boots acted as a crash bung with my foot in, saved frame, casings, foot pegs, plastics, indcator and only had a sprained ankle
and wore for a year after before replacing with the same make and model.
I have a reasonably expensive Heine Gericke Master V suit, and IMO bonded Goretex (ake Goretex Pro I think) is worth the premium over goretex lined kit. The main difference being it sheds water from the outside not the lining, so the outer layer doesn't absorb water, meaning it stays warmer and crucially it dries quicker, which is a massive benefit for commuting or touring.
My heated jacket cost me about £20 to make though and is great
My heated jacket cost me about £20 to make though and is great
i used to commute 80 miles each way to London 5d/wk in all weathers and have gone through a few different sets of gear over the years.
1. BKS laminate textiles, lasted 2 years then failed suddenly, no longer waterproof, taped seams failed. Good for the money but warranty useless when Frank Thomas/BKS partnership business closed.
2. Rukka Arma-S laminate textiles, had to go back a number of times for leaks, but worked very well. Leaked badly after 4 years and dist/mfr would not repair any more, despite another year warranty left, claiming water ingress must be body sweat. Apparently i sweat more in the rain haha. Some taped seams failed, some stitch lines failed, rubber zip is rubbish. Was expecting these to be long term keepers but nope.
3. Hideout Hi-Pro laminate textiles 2 piece made to measure. Minor leak issues from custom fit fixed promptly as well as minor damage from an off. Very warm for summer use even without lining due to full kevlar inner lining. Best safety rating. Specific designed in features i wanted during build.
All have been susceptible to water ingress if you haven't secured anything properly, neck lining, waist zip, pockets, etc.
Have tried using oversuits, waterproofs etc, and these are the most reliable to keep rain out, but most impractical to use if you have to keep putting on/off, especially on motorway/main roads, to avoid boil in the bag feeling.
1. BKS laminate textiles, lasted 2 years then failed suddenly, no longer waterproof, taped seams failed. Good for the money but warranty useless when Frank Thomas/BKS partnership business closed.
2. Rukka Arma-S laminate textiles, had to go back a number of times for leaks, but worked very well. Leaked badly after 4 years and dist/mfr would not repair any more, despite another year warranty left, claiming water ingress must be body sweat. Apparently i sweat more in the rain haha. Some taped seams failed, some stitch lines failed, rubber zip is rubbish. Was expecting these to be long term keepers but nope.
3. Hideout Hi-Pro laminate textiles 2 piece made to measure. Minor leak issues from custom fit fixed promptly as well as minor damage from an off. Very warm for summer use even without lining due to full kevlar inner lining. Best safety rating. Specific designed in features i wanted during build.
All have been susceptible to water ingress if you haven't secured anything properly, neck lining, waist zip, pockets, etc.
Have tried using oversuits, waterproofs etc, and these are the most reliable to keep rain out, but most impractical to use if you have to keep putting on/off, especially on motorway/main roads, to avoid boil in the bag feeling.
Thanks, cpszx 
I have Hideout leather trousers: top notch, with made-to-measure comfort. Their current price starts from £445 – not cheap, but, considering the quality, it's good value compared to similar-priced Dainese, Alpinestars, etc. I haven't got Hideout's textiles, but they felt significantly better built than Rukka when I handled them in-store. And Hideout's gear is undoubtedly far more protective than Rukka.
Biker9090 said:
I think the price of Rukka etc is absolutely obscene. You've really got to be on a different planet to spend that much on something off the shelf. I've heard good things about hideout leathers and textiles though but again at a 2k price tag - albeit custom fit. If I was commuting frequently at high speeds (and rich) I might consider Hideout due to the increased protection over off the shelf stuff.
^ this. Rukka prices can be eye-watering, and while their gear is comfy and waterproof, it only offers poor abrasion resistance. Rukka takes the Mickey out of its customers, e.g. over £2k for the Nivala 2 suit, with the lowest possible CE protection rating (a single 'A'). It might be Gore-Tex Pro, but so is my hiking jacket. I have Hideout leather trousers: top notch, with made-to-measure comfort. Their current price starts from £445 – not cheap, but, considering the quality, it's good value compared to similar-priced Dainese, Alpinestars, etc. I haven't got Hideout's textiles, but they felt significantly better built than Rukka when I handled them in-store. And Hideout's gear is undoubtedly far more protective than Rukka.
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