Motorcycle accidents - Did you slide on the road?
Poll: Motorcycle accidents - Did you slide on the road?
Total Members Polled: 81
Discussion
Following on from the threads on clothing/materials/testing approaches, and the fact that there is a suggestion that abbrasion testing is of questionable value for road riding, I though I'd set up a quick poll to get some completely unscientific, uncontrolled, anecdotal data from those on here.
This poll is looking at any accident you have had on the road (not the track) whether your fault, someone elses or just bad luck and whether you reported it to police/insurance or not.
If you've had more than one accident and can tick more than one box then tick all that apply.
It doesn't matter how long ago the accident was, it's still relevant.
Distances are "best guess" and don't need to be exact.
While the term above is "slid", please include situations where you might have rolled or in any other way travelled, not on your bike, while in contact with the road.
This poll is looking at any accident you have had on the road (not the track) whether your fault, someone elses or just bad luck and whether you reported it to police/insurance or not.
If you've had more than one accident and can tick more than one box then tick all that apply.
It doesn't matter how long ago the accident was, it's still relevant.
Distances are "best guess" and don't need to be exact.
While the term above is "slid", please include situations where you might have rolled or in any other way travelled, not on your bike, while in contact with the road.
Only had 2 (thankfully). One I was stationary and the front wheel was driven over (yes really....) as I gently lowered the bike to the floor and tried to get the womans attention. The second I needed another 6 inches to stop, let the back wheel come back to the ground and almost stepped off in one direction as I let the bike fall in the other.
No sliding, or injuries, for either fortunately
No sliding, or injuries, for either fortunately
Yes, quite some distance, from approx 80mph to 0, fortunately along a straight road and I didn't hit anything (although apparantly my helmet brushed a tree and left some paint behind.....)
This was in approx 1994 or 5 (I can't remember the year precisely), and I'd hit the curb on a (fairly gentle) corner on the Isle of Man TT course while trying to push my 1985 Ducati TT600 fast enough to keep up with a CBR600..... ie being a very silly boy.
Clothing: Frank Thomas leather Jacket, Shoshoni armoured jeans, Arai helmet, gloves and boots.
Damage to me: 1 broken meta-carpal in left hand (the outside one - it's STILL bent).
My jeans knee, where my knee had hit the tarmac was torn to shreds in the impact, but my knee received nothing more than grazing - the armour worked brilliantly - had I been wearing 'just' jeans I doubt I'd have a knee cap any more. My jacket had scuff marks, but was completely re-usable. My right hand glove (I fell that way so likely put my hand out) was torn to shreds, but no damage to my hand. The helmet was battered and the visor broken, but it held up well.
Hope that helps.
This was in approx 1994 or 5 (I can't remember the year precisely), and I'd hit the curb on a (fairly gentle) corner on the Isle of Man TT course while trying to push my 1985 Ducati TT600 fast enough to keep up with a CBR600..... ie being a very silly boy.
Clothing: Frank Thomas leather Jacket, Shoshoni armoured jeans, Arai helmet, gloves and boots.
Damage to me: 1 broken meta-carpal in left hand (the outside one - it's STILL bent).
My jeans knee, where my knee had hit the tarmac was torn to shreds in the impact, but my knee received nothing more than grazing - the armour worked brilliantly - had I been wearing 'just' jeans I doubt I'd have a knee cap any more. My jacket had scuff marks, but was completely re-usable. My right hand glove (I fell that way so likely put my hand out) was torn to shreds, but no damage to my hand. The helmet was battered and the visor broken, but it held up well.
Hope that helps.
black-k1 said:
While the term above is "slid", please include situations where you might have rolled or in any other way travelled, not on your bike, while in contact with the road.
Sliding and rolling along the road after an incident are very different in terms of how clothing/armour protects you. Sliding requires more abrasion resistance, whereas rolling needs more impact protection.For an accident on the road, it is better not to slide a long distance like they do in track incidents as it tends to slide you in front of oncoming traffic or a into a tree or other stationary object.
boyse7en said:
black-k1 said:
While the term above is "slid", please include situations where you might have rolled or in any other way travelled, not on your bike, while in contact with the road.
Sliding and rolling along the road after an incident are very different in terms of how clothing/armour protects you. Sliding requires more abrasion resistance, whereas rolling needs more impact protection.For an accident on the road, it is better not to slide a long distance like they do in track incidents as it tends to slide you in front of oncoming traffic or a into a tree or other stationary object.
Likewise, while they are actually the greatest danger, I'm not looking for any feedback on impact related situations. Managing impact is a totally different ball game.
The point is to establish, anectodally, if, in the real world, having decent abrasion resistance in your clothing is of potential benefit. The evidence from this totally unscientific poll suggests that, so far, it is worth having good abrasian resistance in your motorcycle clothing.
Voted.
Fairly recent lowside crash after forgetting how terrible the ground clearance is in an Benelli TnT 125 and the side stand dug in to the road and lifted the rear wheel clear of it.
Regular Levi jeans.
Armoured leather jacket.
RST Tractech something or other boots.
Dainese armoured winter gloves.
Slid about 10m in total but had presence of mind to roll on to my toe sliders and armoured knuckles to slide on them.
Both perfectly serviceable afterwards. Regular jeans a bit ripped and a couple of grazes to my knee and thigh.
Fairly recent lowside crash after forgetting how terrible the ground clearance is in an Benelli TnT 125 and the side stand dug in to the road and lifted the rear wheel clear of it.
Regular Levi jeans.
Armoured leather jacket.
RST Tractech something or other boots.
Dainese armoured winter gloves.
Slid about 10m in total but had presence of mind to roll on to my toe sliders and armoured knuckles to slide on them.
Both perfectly serviceable afterwards. Regular jeans a bit ripped and a couple of grazes to my knee and thigh.
You need to differentiate between siding in leathers - so the rider will have been happy to go faster and therefore slide further, and sliding on jeans, where the rider was happy to ride at a pace appropriate to the clothing.
In my jeans, I don't ride as fast as I perhaps could, in leathers I would go faster in some places.
In my jeans, I don't ride as fast as I perhaps could, in leathers I would go faster in some places.
SteveKTMer said:
You need to differentiate between siding in leathers - so the rider will have been happy to go faster and therefore slide further, and sliding on jeans, where the rider was happy to ride at a pace appropriate to the clothing.
In my jeans, I don't ride as fast as I perhaps could, in leathers I would go faster in some places.
Again, the complexities are really more than can be incorporated in a simple poll on a forum. To start with, your assumption is that people change their riding style according to what they're wearing. That may well be the case but opens a whole different set of questions. In my jeans, I don't ride as fast as I perhaps could, in leathers I would go faster in some places.
I'd suggest the point of the poll is to establish that some riders found themseleves in a position (for all sorts of different reasons) where they were sliding down the road. At that moment, they have become totally dependant on the material between them and the road to protect them.
3 offs on the road in the first few years in the 80s, and each time when I was out for a ride wearing regular jeans and leather jacket. No CE armour back then, a couple of layers of leather and some padding on the jacket.
Didn't really slide on any of them, just impacted, then rolled to a stop. Max impact speed on one accident probably 50mph when I hit the ground and dislocated elbow and took chunk out of knee, resulting in gravel rash. If I had been wearing jacket and jeans with any form of armour likely would have been ok.
Didn't really slide on any of them, just impacted, then rolled to a stop. Max impact speed on one accident probably 50mph when I hit the ground and dislocated elbow and took chunk out of knee, resulting in gravel rash. If I had been wearing jacket and jeans with any form of armour likely would have been ok.
Had a lowside on a wet greasy corner on a narrow B road in South Shropshire. Slid on my arse and elbow in my Wolf 2 piece leather suit. Plastics damage to my CBR 600 and a bent rear brake lever. Absolutely no damage to me or my leathers or my brand new 400 quid helmet.
I'm sure I've argued about this with Black-K1 before, but I do ride much more defensively when not in full leathers. This is not to say I ride too fast or recklessly in leathers but I dial it back quite a lot on things like lean angle and therefore cornering speed when I'm wearing a textile jacket and kevlar jeans.
Obviously the worst thing you can do on a bike is hit something solid and immovable but I've always had a healthy regard for my own skin (literally) so I generally wear protective clothing at all times.
I'm sure I've argued about this with Black-K1 before, but I do ride much more defensively when not in full leathers. This is not to say I ride too fast or recklessly in leathers but I dial it back quite a lot on things like lean angle and therefore cornering speed when I'm wearing a textile jacket and kevlar jeans.
Obviously the worst thing you can do on a bike is hit something solid and immovable but I've always had a healthy regard for my own skin (literally) so I generally wear protective clothing at all times.
Hit a car head on, on a crest of a narrow road, both doing 60mph or so, I went over the roof and slid for a short distance behind the car.
Before hitting the road I was spread out flat with my hands in front of me, when I came to my fingers were poking through the glove fingers and I could see my palms through the leather, I was wearing trousers which were in tatters and lost both my shoes. My leather jacket was undamaged but it was pushed up around my chest so belly got a bit of road rash.
When I went back to biking a while later I wore winter gloves all year round, ankle high boots, the same jacket but properly adjusted to prevent it riding high again. I wasnt concerned by abrasion resist trousers as I now know you'll still be bleeding plenty on the inside from the abrasion of skin against the material.
Before hitting the road I was spread out flat with my hands in front of me, when I came to my fingers were poking through the glove fingers and I could see my palms through the leather, I was wearing trousers which were in tatters and lost both my shoes. My leather jacket was undamaged but it was pushed up around my chest so belly got a bit of road rash.
When I went back to biking a while later I wore winter gloves all year round, ankle high boots, the same jacket but properly adjusted to prevent it riding high again. I wasnt concerned by abrasion resist trousers as I now know you'll still be bleeding plenty on the inside from the abrasion of skin against the material.
I had a few crashes when I started riding so ticked more than once box. Longest slide was after coming off on diesel. As I came onto a roundabout I could see diesel on the outside, near the kerb. I avoided it easily but on the exit there was more in the middle of the road (I couldn’t see it as it was over the brow of the hill). My bike just disappeared from underneath me and we both slid down the road. Fortunately it was early morning and traffic was light (was lovely early summer day). I think the bike slid well over 50 metres. There was a car coming in the other direction but fortunately far enough away it could brake in time and not run my bike over. I think I slid over ten metres. I was in full leathers and apart from a broken finger and bruised ribs I wasn’t hurt. Leathers were scuffed but reusable. It was a long time ago but I think I replaced my gloves.
I think coming off on diesel, when I wasn’t going fast, confirmed how easy it is to come off when you only have two wheels. So I almost always were full kit when I’m riding.
I think coming off on diesel, when I wasn’t going fast, confirmed how easy it is to come off when you only have two wheels. So I almost always were full kit when I’m riding.
I didn't hit anything so I don't have a marker of where the fall started, I can't remember where I was in relation to the bike either
I certainly slid - the knuckle protection on my gloves shows that but I'm guessing sub 10m - all I remember is the noise of the sliding bike & thinking that sounds expensive
I didn't have time to do anything - it seemed like it was over in the blink of an eye
I certainly slid - the knuckle protection on my gloves shows that but I'm guessing sub 10m - all I remember is the noise of the sliding bike & thinking that sounds expensive
I didn't have time to do anything - it seemed like it was over in the blink of an eye
Edited by KTMsm on Tuesday 5th April 21:52
boyse7en said:
Sliding and rolling along the road after an incident are very different in terms of how clothing/armour protects you. Sliding requires more abrasion resistance, whereas rolling needs more impact protection.
For an accident on the road, it is better not to slide a long distance like they do in track incidents as it tends to slide you in front of oncoming traffic or a into a tree or other stationary object.
I had just this a couple of years ago. In a 60mph zone, I slowed down as the road narrowed, I was only moderately braking but unbeknownst to me at the time, the road surface had crappy tarmac bleed and was live which meant my front locked, no screech, no dive of the forks, the bike didn’t appear to slow and 0.2 of a second later I realised the front had locked and I was going down, it was like braking on wet grass, the front tucked and I hit the deck at around 50mph. For an accident on the road, it is better not to slide a long distance like they do in track incidents as it tends to slide you in front of oncoming traffic or a into a tree or other stationary object.
As soon as I landed I tried to slow my fall by putting my hand down and bringing my knee towards my body to slow my fall and limit sliding as the road had narrowed and there were trees either side, as I did this I got caught up into numerous somersaults and was a largely a passenger at that point. I didn’t slide, I literally somersaulted 25 metres down the road!!
Crashing at 50 was more violent than I could have ever imagined, much more so because I didn’t lay back and slide. This was my first proper crash as it were in 28 years of road riding, fortunately the protective kit I was wearing pretty much saved me from much damage, I was completely unmarked and every bit of protection was in exactly the right contact points, I can’t praise the safety gear enough.
Ironically I went down on my right side, but most of my worst injuries were on the left side where I guess I was clinging or caught up being wrenched off the bike!! I had a fractured left thumb which still hurts nearly 2 years later, twisted left knee a bit which took a few weeks to heal, felt like I had a couple of broken ribs on the right where my elbow was pushed into my ribs and was massively winded, muscle ache to right shoulder, upper right chest area and general aches and soreness from being tossed down the road like a rag doll. Both my hands ached at the knuckles as I managed to get on my feet after all the somersaulting before going down for a final time with the momentum and landing with both hands in front of me which bent all my fingers back at the knuckles, again those joints still don’t feel 100% and ache still now at times and then subsequently smacking my helmet at the very end which I think I’d somehow avoided up to that point.
It was quite a humbling experience and I’m very grateful that I didn't hit anything and no cars were about as the outcome could have been very different!
Edited by NITO on Tuesday 5th April 20:32
Scroes after 50 respondents:
16
22
17
2
Thanks to everyone who responded. We now have 50 "votes" and some interesting stories. It certainly appears from this unscientific poll that sliding down the road as part of an accident is quite common and that sliding for some distance is also quite common. In fact, from the results above, more people slid more than 10m than didn't slide at all.
For me, this result is hardly surprising and is exactly why the work done on establishing comparative benchmarks for how long different materials will last when subjected to a slide on a "real road" surface is important. Sure, such work does nothing to avoid accidents in the first place, or to address protection should you impact something, including the road, but it does help understanding with regards to one common part of an accident and how we can protect ourselves.
Luckily, in my most recent accident, (Bambi encounter!) I managed to stay on the bike until it was almost stationary then fell over at very low speed so sliding was minimal. However, I still remember parting company with my moped on a number of occasions when wearing normal jeans and a normal jacket. The resulting damage to knees and elbows, the material of my jacket and trousers having worn through almost instantly, was extremely painful.
As ever, when riding a bike, wear whatever you want (aside from the legal requirement for a helmet) but understand the risk you are taking. Question the safety claims of retailers and manufacturers who are possibly focussing more on selling you their goods than on providing you with protection. Trust independent testers but understand the limits of their testing and always remember that, while safety gear is extremely important, 100% of people survive, totally unscathed, accidents they don't have!
16
22
17
2
Thanks to everyone who responded. We now have 50 "votes" and some interesting stories. It certainly appears from this unscientific poll that sliding down the road as part of an accident is quite common and that sliding for some distance is also quite common. In fact, from the results above, more people slid more than 10m than didn't slide at all.
For me, this result is hardly surprising and is exactly why the work done on establishing comparative benchmarks for how long different materials will last when subjected to a slide on a "real road" surface is important. Sure, such work does nothing to avoid accidents in the first place, or to address protection should you impact something, including the road, but it does help understanding with regards to one common part of an accident and how we can protect ourselves.
Luckily, in my most recent accident, (Bambi encounter!) I managed to stay on the bike until it was almost stationary then fell over at very low speed so sliding was minimal. However, I still remember parting company with my moped on a number of occasions when wearing normal jeans and a normal jacket. The resulting damage to knees and elbows, the material of my jacket and trousers having worn through almost instantly, was extremely painful.
As ever, when riding a bike, wear whatever you want (aside from the legal requirement for a helmet) but understand the risk you are taking. Question the safety claims of retailers and manufacturers who are possibly focussing more on selling you their goods than on providing you with protection. Trust independent testers but understand the limits of their testing and always remember that, while safety gear is extremely important, 100% of people survive, totally unscathed, accidents they don't have!
Edited by black-k1 on Wednesday 6th April 07:50
Very interesting poll. Good work.
I've had quite a few accidents. All low speed, relatively.
One in the Lake District. Going round a corner on a very narrow road, an oncoming car had taken all the space. I moved to the edge which was a vertical earth bank. The bike slid along the vertical earth until it came to a stop. I remained upright the whole time. I was wearing full 2-piece leathers (1980), leather gloves, leather boots and a Bell Star helmet. None of me or my garments contacted anything. I'm guessing I was doing about 30mph. The bike had a few pieces broken off but was rideable.
In London 1981, I was commuting to work and a van turned right to go into a driveway, violating my path of travel. I hit the brakes but couldn't stop before t-boning the van side. I put my arms up when I hit and absorbed all the remaining impact without face-planting the van. I was probably only going 5mph when I hit. I was fine, the bike was a write-off due to bent front forks.
In Los Angeles around 1986, I was going round a 90 degree turn at a traffic light. Leaned over quite a bit, I accelerated too hard and the rear tire lost traction so I low-sided. I believe I rolled backwards a very short distance. Clothing was fine, probably jeans and a leather jacket. Bike was fine. I twisted my groin a bit but not enough to go to hospital though.
In mongolia 2 months ago, I was riding on fresh snow on a frozen dirt track. Front tire lost traction and I went down at low speed, probably walking pace. I was fine until my Honda Transalp fell on my ankle. I believe the engine case hit my ankle perpendicularly. I was wearing nubuck leather hiking boots (stupid choice). My ankle was a bit sore but I could walk so I bore the pain for a while. I waited a week before going to hospital and x-rays showed a hairline fracture through the fibula end (lateral malleolus) -the outer ankle bone. Not a big deal. It healed with just a splint, no need for a cast. The tendons are still a bit weak and sore but it's getting better every day. Lesson learned, I should've worn my Fly Racing FR5 motocross boots and ridden a bike with full knobbies, not adventure tires.
I've actually had more injuries from bicycle riding and snowboarding. Broken elbows, broken arms, concussions. You slide a lot when snowboarding
I've had quite a few accidents. All low speed, relatively.
One in the Lake District. Going round a corner on a very narrow road, an oncoming car had taken all the space. I moved to the edge which was a vertical earth bank. The bike slid along the vertical earth until it came to a stop. I remained upright the whole time. I was wearing full 2-piece leathers (1980), leather gloves, leather boots and a Bell Star helmet. None of me or my garments contacted anything. I'm guessing I was doing about 30mph. The bike had a few pieces broken off but was rideable.
In London 1981, I was commuting to work and a van turned right to go into a driveway, violating my path of travel. I hit the brakes but couldn't stop before t-boning the van side. I put my arms up when I hit and absorbed all the remaining impact without face-planting the van. I was probably only going 5mph when I hit. I was fine, the bike was a write-off due to bent front forks.
In Los Angeles around 1986, I was going round a 90 degree turn at a traffic light. Leaned over quite a bit, I accelerated too hard and the rear tire lost traction so I low-sided. I believe I rolled backwards a very short distance. Clothing was fine, probably jeans and a leather jacket. Bike was fine. I twisted my groin a bit but not enough to go to hospital though.
In mongolia 2 months ago, I was riding on fresh snow on a frozen dirt track. Front tire lost traction and I went down at low speed, probably walking pace. I was fine until my Honda Transalp fell on my ankle. I believe the engine case hit my ankle perpendicularly. I was wearing nubuck leather hiking boots (stupid choice). My ankle was a bit sore but I could walk so I bore the pain for a while. I waited a week before going to hospital and x-rays showed a hairline fracture through the fibula end (lateral malleolus) -the outer ankle bone. Not a big deal. It healed with just a splint, no need for a cast. The tendons are still a bit weak and sore but it's getting better every day. Lesson learned, I should've worn my Fly Racing FR5 motocross boots and ridden a bike with full knobbies, not adventure tires.
I've actually had more injuries from bicycle riding and snowboarding. Broken elbows, broken arms, concussions. You slide a lot when snowboarding
Edited by UKadventurer on Wednesday 6th April 11:12
Longest slide was on track at Aragon when I had total brake failure at the end of the pit straight. So it was high speed (higher than on any public highway). Came off, slid a few metres then you instinctively barrel roll/flipped the rest of the way. Also - friction of leathers against the tarmac meant you come to a stop quicker than you think. Max distance covered from point of coming off was probably between 10-15m, but the actual ‘slide’ was far less.
Have come off multiple times on the road: once was a head on collision at 40-50. Twice on roundabouts due to diesel. Once at a stop. Each time for , the slide was between 2-10m max. On one of them which was taken at ‘pace’ on a fast road ride, I remember watching the bike slide to the outside kerb of the roundabout which was no more than 10m away. Again, because of friction I came to a stop within 2-3m of actually coming off.
The actual slide of me (the rider) is relatively short, as friction (boots/clothing/gloves/etc) all work to slow you down quite quickly further reducing abrasive wear, in addition to any barrel roll/flip/change of body attitude against the road. The motorbike continued to slide further, but that was simply because of lack of friction of metal/fairings against tarmac.
Have come off multiple times on the road: once was a head on collision at 40-50. Twice on roundabouts due to diesel. Once at a stop. Each time for , the slide was between 2-10m max. On one of them which was taken at ‘pace’ on a fast road ride, I remember watching the bike slide to the outside kerb of the roundabout which was no more than 10m away. Again, because of friction I came to a stop within 2-3m of actually coming off.
The actual slide of me (the rider) is relatively short, as friction (boots/clothing/gloves/etc) all work to slow you down quite quickly further reducing abrasive wear, in addition to any barrel roll/flip/change of body attitude against the road. The motorbike continued to slide further, but that was simply because of lack of friction of metal/fairings against tarmac.
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