Novice track days … how novice?

[fastbikes76]

Mrs Fb did her full licence last year and her riding is absolutely fantastic now. She’s always been a petrolhead and used to 500+hp cars etc so was only to be expected she would take to biking like a duck to water.

Her confidence on the road is great and doesn’t really hold any of us up on a ride, but I would like her to learn more about her bikes capabilities in a safer environment and wonder if a track day at Brands would be the answer. My main thing is how novice is the novice group usually? She’s no slouch by a long shot but if there’s going to be people buzzing around like Rossi wannabes in the novice group that may not be for her. Equally she wouldn’t want to be holding people up and causing a mobile road block lol. I would look to book an instructor for some one 2 one tuition at the same time.

Cheers
Fb

[Rick448]

I'd book a session with these guys.
https://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/track-days

[r1mike1983]

Problem with novice group is most don’t have any track etiquette, and can’t hold a line.

An instructor will be able to take her out on clear track, and a after a few sessions she will probably be the quickest out there.

[Freakuk]

You'll get a mixed bag in the novice group on a usual trackday. Some will be on their road bikes and will ride like they are on the road keeping to the left hand side regardless of the turn, some will be on trackbikes and either be too fast for the group or literally think they are Rossi and take to the scenery, and some will be perfectly fine. Each day is different, it's all about confidence and good obs.

If you are really concerned look for a novice only day, some TDO's do run a ladies only days also, failing that you could look to book some of the specialist training courses, CSS, Ron Haslam (could be closed now), or a Jamie Whitham day.

If you choose a normal/ladies only day make sure you ask for some instruction it's worth it's weight in gold for new riders to trackdays.

[trickywoo]

Not very in my experience.

The first one I did had some full on race bikes in it who buzzed me a few times. Most other people would have had 5+ previous track experiences IMO. Trouble is the faster groups are full of bikes on slicks that have arrived in vans so if someone finds that too full on they end in novices but are still fast.

It was also a crash fest. Mine was at Brands and there was a three bike crash on the little straight just after Graham Hill bend.

There were numerous other red flags with the last session not possible because the track first aid were fully occupied with all the crashers. One guy was laid out in the gravel opposite the pit entrance.

I didn't find it any fun at all.

If you turn up on the bike you need to ride home you need to have massive confidence not to be rattled by all the crashes. People were touring the pits looking for tape to cobble their bikes together to get home.

[PurpleTurtle]

The above is my experience of novice groups at TDs too, it can be difficult to learn in Novice when there are a lot of newbies wobbling around.

Back in the day (nearly 20yrs ago) I went to the Suzuki Performance Riding School at Mallory Park, run in conjunction with Drayton Croft Motorcycles.
This was absolutely brilliant as you had four riders to one instructor, most of whom were racers, I had Phil Giles, who was at the time a privateer in BSB. You rode their bikes, had classroom tuition followed by circuit riding where every lap the instructor would progressively increase the speed with a group of four riders following his lines. It was a brilliant method of teaching, all done safely and most importantly a 'no overtaking' rule, so you got to build up your skills without having to worry about anyone behind you cocking up. They staggered groups around the track so even at a modest sized circuit like Mallory you could have 3-4 groups of 4 bikes out riding at any one time.

Sadly it no longer exists, but this kind of thing seems similar: https://www.circuitbasedtraining.co.uk/motorcycle-...

Having done several bike TDs at Brands the only thing I would say is that it's a bit daunting as a circuit for a newbie. Barrelling into Paddock Hill Bend at full chat for the first time feels like riding off the edge of the earth, I've never done a TD there without a few people binning it. Personally I would look for a flatter, less technical track for a first time out, just to get used to the sensations of being on track.

I have to say I gave up bike TDs because I was a road rider going there in the Intermediate group on my road bike, on the basis that I knew my lines and was too quick for the Novice group and wanted to avoid the wobblers. I probably only ever road at 8/10ths because I needed to ride my bike home at the end of the day.

However, after several great TDs it became evident that whilst I was getting faster, I was increasingly getting buzzed by much faster dudes on fully slicked race bikes with tyre warmers etc who should really have been in the (full) fast groups but the organisers had let them run in intermediates rather than say 'sorry, Fast Group is full'. Happy to take the money.

If these fast guys respected that and gave people a bit of room I'd have no problem with it, but it got to the point where there were waaaaay too many Rossi wannabes running in Inters who were putting in dangerous last ditch passes as if their world title hopes depended on it, it became far too risky so I sacked the idea off before I got hurt.

Edited by PurpleTurtle on Friday 11th March 10:47

[Freakuk]

PurpleTurtle said:

However, after several great TDs it became evident that whilst I was getting faster, I was increasingly getting buzzed by much faster dudes on fully slicked race bikes with tyre warmers etc who should really have been in the (full) fast groups but the organisers had let them run in intermediates rather than say 'sorry, Fast Group is full'. Happy to take the money.

The issue with the above is there are limited spaces in each group and dependent upon track size, the TDO cannot add 10-20 people to the fast group unless that group has unsold places. Timing is a big no no in the UK and only one or two people may move up/down through the day.

Back to the OP, no idea where you are but book an easy track if confidence is an issue, snetterton, mallory are two off the top of my head, don't be put off by track bikes, tyre warmers etc, they all started like your OH at some point.

[moanthebairns]

I'd recommend a James Whitham track day if its the case your wife might be spooked.

https://www.jameswhitham.com/track-training

Sometimes as little as 10 folk on track, higher prices obviously but I loved the space you got on the day. We bit training too which may help.

[darkyoung1000]

Robert Bensley has been running road bike only ‘rider perfection’ days which are excellent (the only days I really consider if I’m going on track - admittedly that’s rare )

He does Cadwell and Snetterton, so may be a bit far, but I’ve found the level of tuition and the split between the groups excellent.

If you can’t find anything online, drop me a PM and I’ll forward you the latest email with this year’s dates.

[airsafari87]

moanthebairns said:

I'd recommend a James Whitham track day if its the case your wife might be spooked.

https://www.jameswhitham.com/track-training

Sometimes as little as 10 folk on track, higher prices obviously but I loved the space you got on the day. We bit training too which may help.

Seconded.

Also to add. The California Superbike School seems to fit your bill too. Its not a traditional trackday but your Mrs would learn the types of things you speak about on it. The costs are slightly higher than a TD but they are worth it imo.

[fastbikes76]

Thanks guys,

Your thoughts seem to line up with mine in being that it may be more of a hindrance than a help if she is constantly being buzzed by low flyers ! I only suggested Brands as it’s 30 min from me.

I’m more than happy to pay what it takes to get her some more experience at riding in a controlled environment where she can learn her bikes capabilities. On the road each corner is a new one to her so she is understably cautious, still plenty quick , but riding no where near what she or the bike could be capable of. I just want to to experience a little closer to the limits so she can continue riding as she does, but with significantly increased confidence once she knows the bike (and her) will easily get round the bends.

I only suggested a TD as I wasn’t sure how else you could get Tuition. I’m more than happy to take her where ever is needed and pay whatever it costs though for some good solid tutoring, even if it’s £500 or whatever.

I will take a look at some of the suggestion when I get home later .

[mikey_b]

The track day I did was at a small circuit in Kent - Lydden Hill. Like a slightly scaled down Brands Hatch. There were plenty of actual novices in the novice group (including me), but in fact I was about the 4th fastest there (about 15-20 per group) and I was a lot slower than the times in the intermediate and fast groups.

A couple of guys were clearly much too quick for that group and were allowed to move up to intermediate. The quickest guy was a young kid who looked about 12, on a track-prepped Aprilia RS250, but the rest of us were a broad mix of road bikes and abilities, including a number of women.

I'm no trackday expert but I feel reasonably sure your wife would have fitted in very comfortably. It was all quite relaxed TBH, everyone was just having fun.

[Salted_Peanut]

fastbikes76 said:

On the road each corner is a new one to her

While I second Rick's recommendation for track training with Rapid, their on-road coaching could be the better bet. E.g. it will give her the skills to tackle corners without each seeming new – regardless of whether she's ridden the bend before. I thought I was decent at reading the road until I did a session with Rapid, which boosted my road riding and cornering skills considerably more than my time on track.

https://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/bespoke-2022

In my experience, the tutoring is exceptionally good (and enjoyable!). A day with Rapid will undoubtedly increase her confidence, cornering skills, etc. far more than a regular track day. I found it more fun than a track day, too.

[bogie]

British Superbike School at Blyton Park is an affordable and safe way to get experience on track. Each ability group goes out together with an instructor leading and setting the pace. Its a mix of classroom then practice throughout the day.

https://britishsuperbikeschool.com/about/blyton-pa...

[black-k1]

Salted_Peanut said:

fastbikes76 said:

On the road each corner is a new one to her

While I second Rick's recommendation for track training with Rapid, their on-road coaching could be the better bet. E.g. it will give her the skills to tackle corners without each seeming new – regardless of whether she's ridden the bend before. I thought I was decent at reading the road until I did a session with Rapid, which boosted my road riding and cornering skills considerably more than my time on track.

https://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/bespoke-2022

In my experience, the tutoring is exceptionally good (and enjoyable!). A day with Rapid will undoubtedly increase her confidence, cornering skills, etc. far more than a regular track day. I found it more fun than a track day, too.

I'd say this is a better suggestion too. Cornering with confidence on the road is not just about controlling the bike but reading the road and getting the lines right (VERY different lines to the track.) Any decent road training will cover bike control techniques.

Edited by black-k1 on Friday 11th March 13:05

[Birky_41]

The guy to the right of me I've known 20+years

He's now 59 and 2021 I got him into track days

End Feb he did his first Euro

Very much a novice rider and comfortable mid pack

I'm sure your Mrs fb will be just fine going on what you said and tbh I wouldn't be surprised if she was Inters pace

Here's a picture for entertainment purposes while in Spain...

[Bob_Defly]

I did a track day that had good instruction and smaller groups, I believe the higher price is definitely worth it.

Weird thing is, I learnt that I didn't like track days.

[dibblecorse]

Have a scan through the No Limits dates as historically they have always run a couple of Novice only or Road Bikes only trackdays in the schedule, as it de-risks a lot of what has been said, if you can't see anything on the list give them a call and ask if any in the plans, they just released theirJune dates but I haven't scanned them.

[Rick448]

Salted_Peanut said:

While I second Rick's recommendation for track training with Rapid, their on-road coaching could be the better bet. E.g. it will give her the skills to tackle corners without each seeming new – regardless of whether she's ridden the bend before. I thought I was decent at reading the road until I did a session with Rapid, which boosted my road riding and cornering skills considerably more than my time on track.

https://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/bespoke-2022

In my experience, the tutoring is exceptionally good (and enjoyable!). A day with Rapid will undoubtedly increase her confidence, cornering skills, etc. far more than a regular track day. I found it more fun than a track day, too.

I suggested the track training as it seemed the OP was looking for track related training / experience. I am doing the Roadmaster Level 2 course in May myself

[PurpleTurtle]

Freakuk said:

PurpleTurtle said:

However, after several great TDs it became evident that whilst I was getting faster, I was increasingly getting buzzed by much faster dudes on fully slicked race bikes with tyre warmers etc who should really have been in the (full) fast groups but the organisers had let them run in intermediates rather than say 'sorry, Fast Group is full'. Happy to take the money.

The issue with the above is there are limited spaces in each group and dependent upon track size, the TDO cannot add 10-20 people to the fast group unless that group has unsold places. Timing is a big no no in the UK and only one or two people may move up/down through the day.

I'm aware of the limitations on group size.

My experience is that the Fast Group invariably always sold out, so those who were more than capable of running at the front of that but slack at booking would say "No problem, we'll just drop down to Inters and run at the front there, we won't be holding anyone up"

That's all very well for them, but what in actual fact happens is that they turn up in vans with race bikes and tyre warmers, going absolutely hell for leather from the very start of the session, completely disregarding the fact that they are going much faster than the majority of the group who are predominantly on road bikes, lower skill level, on cold tyres that they need to get a bit of heat into for at least one lap of the session.

If one of these clowns then buzzes you with an inch to spare at 120mph (as happened to me on my last Brands TD), it's a tad off-putting to say the least. It's not everyone, but it's enough to make it a problem.

These guys are not 'intermediates' and are not riding at an 'intermediate' pace, as such they endanger the safety of the rest of the intermediate group and the organisers seem to turn a blind eye to it because they'd rather bank the money than tell these blokes to ride more considerately. What gets ignored is that their selfishness is ruining it for those who are true intermediates because they don't have the presence of mind to say I'll give that bloke on the road bike a bit more room, even if it makes my datalogging look bad on this lap, I will risk the chance of my penis shrinking because of it"

FWIW I'm quite happy to be passed with 2-3ft of elbow space at high speed by someone who knows what they are doing on a much faster bike, but when it comes down to fag paper thin margins it stops being fun, which is my (intermediate level rider who needs to ride home) point.

It became notable to me before I stopped doing TDs that it was invariably always one of these merchants crashing, rather than a true intermediate on a road bike, resulting in the session being red-flagged, that caused me to jack it in. The session being spoilt by someone who in truth should not have been in that group.

I know there are now some road bike only TDs, I should probably give one of those a whirl.