Hardknott vs Applecross

[Dr Jekyll]

I've done Applecross a few times in the car but never on a bike, and a bit wary about taking my GS through those steep hairpins. Thinking recently of doing the more conveniently situated Hardknott on a bike but am told it's harder than Applecross.

Has anyone done both and say how they compare?

[NSR500]

Applecross is fine on a bike, just take care at certain corners and keep an eye on the road, i took a 'blade over the pass, cant comment on Hardknott though.

[Rod200SX]

I've personally not done applecross on a bike but done it a few time in various cars.

My dad did applecross with his K1600 (Can't mind which variety) with pillion and luggage and that's the only time he's ever had it threaten to overheat. The road on the pass itself is really poor just now, too. He said he struggled with a few of the hairpins on the way up the pass due to dodging potholes and other traffic.

Last time I did it was Aug 2020 in a Porsche Boxster GTS I won for the weekend and tbh it was a nightmare, there was a cycle race on (though they were really good and respectful, allowing passing etc) but coming back down, a guy coming up the pass got stuck on a hairpin as his 70's DAF camper van overheated and shat coolant all over the road...

No experience of hardknott but if I was going on a big bike up the pass, I'd be very particular about timing to avoid it being too busy and very cautious of the road condition.


ETA: Only time he's ever had a bike get that toasty, think combination of extra load, traffic and it was v. hot. Not happened on previous runs over.

Edited by Rod200SX on Thursday 10th February 13:35

[StreetDragster]

I've done both on a motorbike, I wouldn't say one is any more challenging than the other, they both have steep tight corners and slightly loose surfaces.

100% recommend them both though, and Wrynose if you are in the area of Hard Knott.

[Jazoli]

Hardknot isn't particularly fun to ride, it's more of a slow technical challenge and should be combined with wrynose at the same time, I wouldn't say its a destination ride but then it's local to me, there's far more interesting places to ride a bike.

The issue currently is the amount of tourists up here who have no fking idea how to drive and do not give way to vehicles going uphill, you can end up falling off your bike as you simply cannot stop due to the gradient and camber, best done early in the morning or late in the evenings.

Edited by Jazoli on Thursday 10th February 14:18

[MC Bodge]

I find it interesting that some people struggle with, or are concerned about, tight or hairpin bends.

If you ride a motorbike, it is really worth doing a bit of practice at low speed manoeuvres to improve your bike handling, clutch and throttle control, and confidence. DIY Moto gymkhana. Maybe ride up and down some spiral multi-storey car park ramps too.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 10th February 14:26

[Alex@POD]

MC Bodge said:

I find it interesting that some people struggle with, or are concerned about, tight or hairpin bends.

If you ride a motorbike, it is really worth doing a bit of practice at low speed manoeuvres to improve your bike handling, clutch and throttle control, and confidence. DIY Moto gymkhana. Maybe ride up and down some spiral multi-storey car park ramps too.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 10th February 14:26

I've not ridden either but I have done steep passes in the Alps, I find the steepness of the hairpins more difficult to tackle than the actual radius of the turn. I got caught out once and nearly stalled, on a fully loaded Blackbird with a pillion, and had to put my foot down. The ground was so high I nearly didn't make it!

[MC Bodge]

Alex@POD said:

MC Bodge said:

I find it interesting that some people struggle with, or are concerned about, tight or hairpin bends.

If you ride a motorbike, it is really worth doing a bit of practice at low speed manoeuvres to improve your bike handling, clutch and throttle control, and confidence. DIY Moto gymkhana. Maybe ride up and down some spiral multi-storey car park ramps too.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 10th February 14:26

I've not ridden either but I have done steep passes in the Alps, I find the steepness of the hairpins more difficult to tackle than the actual radius of the turn. I got caught out once and nearly stalled, on a fully loaded Blackbird with a pillion, and had to put my foot down. The ground was so high I nearly didn't make it!

It can be tricky with a fully laden bike, but deliberate practice at keeping the revs high and using the clutch to vary speed in first gear, whilst turning tightly in both directions can be very useful.

I would suggest that most riders would benefit from that sort of practice.

[Wacky Racer]

I've taken my 6mtr motorhome over both Hardknott and Wrynose several times (In nice weather)....no problem on a motorbike unless you are a novice.

[RizzoTheRat]

I had to stop on a steep bit of Hardknott/Wrynose and stupidly hadn't changed down to first before I stopped. As soon as I took my foot off the rear brake the front didn't have enough grip to hold and the bike was slowly sliding backwards, meaning a very quick foot shuffle needed to change down to be able to pull away again

[Jazoli]

MC Bodge said:

I find it interesting that some people struggle with, or are concerned about, tight or hairpin bends.

If you ride a motorbike, it is really worth doing a bit of practice at low speed manoeuvres to improve your bike handling, clutch and throttle control, and confidence. DIY Moto gymkhana. Maybe ride up and down some spiral multi-storey car park ramps too.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 10th February 14:26

Its not so much the inability to take hairpins it's the inability to stop safely when other vehicles don't give priority, I've seen 2 very experienced riders drop their bikes on Hardknott, not because of any lack of skills but due to a complete lack of foresight from other road users

[gareth_r]

Stay well back from the vehicle in front. If you have to stop, you don't want to do it half way around a tight steep hairpin.

EDIT
Anywhere nearby where you can practise? E.g. The W in Nailsworth has a few hairpins. Won't be like the real thing, but may help.

Edited by gareth_r on Thursday 10th February 14:57

[Freakuk]

Everytime I've done Applecross in the car or on the bike it's been like pea soup at the top, I did it last summer in a car (Jeep Wrangler) and didn't have any issues with the road surface, but maybe the wheel size and vehicle helped.

[gdr]

Been over Bealach na Ba a few times on bike, hairpins OK, just might require a bit of clutch slipping. Worse are the inevitable gigantic motorhomes and some evil verges if you happen to meet something coming other way in the wrong place. Personally I think the road is over-rated, although view from top is nice if not in cloud and Applecross itself is OK. Coast road round top of peninsla also a bit of a chore with a lot of blind corners. There are more enjoyable roads to ride in NW Highlands.

[snagzie]

Did Hardknott on a gen 1 tuono with the Mrs as pillion

And she kept leaning back.

That was "fun"

[MC Bodge]

Jazoli said:

MC Bodge said:

I find it interesting that some people struggle with, or are concerned about, tight or hairpin bends.

If you ride a motorbike, it is really worth doing a bit of practice at low speed manoeuvres to improve your bike handling, clutch and throttle control, and confidence. DIY Moto gymkhana. Maybe ride up and down some spiral multi-storey car park ramps too.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 10th February 14:26

Its not so much the inability to take hairpins it's the inability to stop safely when other vehicles don't give priority, I've seen 2 very experienced riders drop their bikes on Hardknott, not because of any lack of skills but due to a complete lack of foresight from other road users

It can happen, of course. As we know, a lot of people don't know how to drive roads like that very well either, which definitely does not help.

From what I've seen of people riding, and people that I have ridden with, a large proportion of riders could benefit from a bit of practice at low speed manoeuvring and tight turns. I like a tight, twisty, undulating road myself.

ps. When I did IAM bike, I was surprised by the number of people who struggled to do a U-turn in a 3x1 parking space area.

pps. Having ridden a bicycle over the Hard Knott, Wrynose, Honister etc. without getting off too, riding a powered vehicle is much easier.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 10th February 16:28

[spoodler]

Have done both in various weather conditions, on bikes from a '69 BSA 650 to a more modern '92 Harley big twin. There's nothing really that should catch out any rider with reasonable experience, although you'll do well to put some thought into your line around the hairpins on some bikes. My 1400 Intruder has run out of ground clearance before now, but most bikes should be okay.
I wimped out of taking our '55 Ariel 500 up there, as I did not trust the brakes on the steeper sections. Other than that, the worst trouble I've had was in our Japanese import MX5 with its lowered and stiffened suspension - it really scrabbled for any traction on some of the bad surfaces in the wet.
Not been for a few years, but due another visit... Lake District is definitely a favourite.
The roads around Honister are worth a visit if you're up that way.

[boxedin]

They're not comparable, I've rode and driven Applecross and a bazillion passes in Europe/UK, one highlight was going over the Furka covered in fog past midnight - ah, there's the edge again ( breathe ).

The one pass I've not rode up was Hardknott from Wrynose on a GS. I had to stop on the way up and a combination of road camber, steepness, wet/cold/greasy surface, top box weight on the rear led to an aborted attempt and I did a 1000 point turn on tip toes before going back down. I really, really, really didn't want to drop the bike as it would have slid down the hill, making a foul night very unpleasant. I didn't bother to try again. If I hadn't had to stop / had a 40 inch inside leg it would have been ok :-)

Treat it like a mountain: it's going nowhere ( fast ), it doesn't care what happens to you, you can choose to turn around.

The next time I went up Hardknott it was in an AWD automatic, far less stressful!

[boxedin]

gdr said:

Been over Bealach na Ba a few times on bike, hairpins OK, just might require a bit of clutch slipping. Worse are the inevitable gigantic motorhomes and some evil verges if you happen to meet something coming other way in the wrong place. Personally I think the road is over-rated, although view from top is nice if not in cloud and Applecross itself is OK. Coast road round top of peninsla also a bit of a chore with a lot of blind corners. There are more enjoyable roads to ride in NW Highlands.

A German couple on a GS nearly got wiped out in front of me when going back down by a car coming up who'd got fed up waiting and gave no room at all to make a point. The GS shifted to make room but they were kissing the verge kicking up dust at fair rate of knots, I had enough time / gap to slow up in case they binned it whilst avoiding said car.

[Esceptico]

Some years back I did a tour of Scotland on four wheels with a bunch off PH (mainly Scots). We did Applecross. Was probably least enjoyable road we went on. Too tight, crap surface, too much traffic.