Recommend me a commuter, or switch to public transport?
Discussion
We're now back in the office 2-4 days a week so I took the banger bike for an MOT this morning....
Not good - 6 majors and a minor (4 relate to one issue - fked forks/busted seals which have contaminated the brakes) - cost to fix (for me) would be broadly the same cost at the bike's value. No second hand forks on ebay and its got a few other issues (despite relatively new tyres/battery) so it'll be for sale later this week as spares or repairs unfortunately.
Thoughts then come to a replacement. The bike's sole purpose is commuting (have an Exige for fun), for a 35 mile round trip from Croydon-C London so about 100 miles a week or 4k a year. It needs to be able to take my wife on the back for the same journey on days when she can't be bothered to drive so narrowness but also pillion comfort are considerations. Being a Croydon postcode despite having a garage (when the door is fixed that is) insurance is expensive.
I've historically bought bikes for <£1,200 from salvage yards and run them until they die with only essential maintenance at MOT time. The current CBF 600 cost £1k to buy from a salvage yard, costs £100pa to insure, has lasted 4 years and needed only 3 tyres, fork seals and a battery in the time I've had it until now. All bikes need to be ULEZ compliant.
For bikes I'm coming to 3 options:
1) Continue the banger mentality - seeing how prices have increased I'd upgrade a little and have seen a good looking, lowish mileage VFR 800 for £3k which could fit the bill - assume £300 a year in servicing/tax/maintenance
2) Buy a 6-7 year old F800 GT BMW from a main dealer (they're cheapest and give 2 year warranty) for £4k - assume £400 a year in servicing/tax/maintenance
3) PCP a new NC750X DCT - £99pm with £1.2k down - should be totally hassle free - £200 a year in servicing/tax/maintenance
Cost has always been the primary driver of my motorbike commute. After a recent house move travelling by public transport would cost me c£950pa, £1.5k pa accounting for times I'd take my wife assuming a 3 day week, increasing to c£2k pa on a 4 day - I think long-term we'll be in 3-5 days a week.
Option 1 - a £3k VFR800 would hopefully last 4 years before having a £1k residual value, cost £300pa to insure, use c£500 of petrol and cost as per above so £1,600pa.
Option 2 - a £4k F800GT would hopefully last 5 years before having a £1k residual value, cost £300pa to insure, use c£500 of petrol and cost as per above so £1,800pa
Option 3 - a new NC750X would use c£350 of petrol, cost £400pa to insure and cost as per above so £2,150pa
They are all going to cost about the same as the train but I value my time. Commute times are ~40 minutes there, ~50 minutes home (ex. wife drop-off) on a bike versus the train which would be just over an hour each way- 3 trains which are all regular but over half the time spent commuting is walking/waiting - and leave me at the whim of TFL but understand the value in the ability to have a few beers etc more easily, plus the safety aspect - kids may be on the horizon in the near-term.
If there was a cost-effective electric bike that did the above I'd be all over it as the use-case is perfect for that. I have toyed with a 350cc scooter but fear it'll be stolen quickly/be uninsurable.
What would you all advise?
Not good - 6 majors and a minor (4 relate to one issue - fked forks/busted seals which have contaminated the brakes) - cost to fix (for me) would be broadly the same cost at the bike's value. No second hand forks on ebay and its got a few other issues (despite relatively new tyres/battery) so it'll be for sale later this week as spares or repairs unfortunately.
Thoughts then come to a replacement. The bike's sole purpose is commuting (have an Exige for fun), for a 35 mile round trip from Croydon-C London so about 100 miles a week or 4k a year. It needs to be able to take my wife on the back for the same journey on days when she can't be bothered to drive so narrowness but also pillion comfort are considerations. Being a Croydon postcode despite having a garage (when the door is fixed that is) insurance is expensive.
I've historically bought bikes for <£1,200 from salvage yards and run them until they die with only essential maintenance at MOT time. The current CBF 600 cost £1k to buy from a salvage yard, costs £100pa to insure, has lasted 4 years and needed only 3 tyres, fork seals and a battery in the time I've had it until now. All bikes need to be ULEZ compliant.
For bikes I'm coming to 3 options:
1) Continue the banger mentality - seeing how prices have increased I'd upgrade a little and have seen a good looking, lowish mileage VFR 800 for £3k which could fit the bill - assume £300 a year in servicing/tax/maintenance
2) Buy a 6-7 year old F800 GT BMW from a main dealer (they're cheapest and give 2 year warranty) for £4k - assume £400 a year in servicing/tax/maintenance
3) PCP a new NC750X DCT - £99pm with £1.2k down - should be totally hassle free - £200 a year in servicing/tax/maintenance
Cost has always been the primary driver of my motorbike commute. After a recent house move travelling by public transport would cost me c£950pa, £1.5k pa accounting for times I'd take my wife assuming a 3 day week, increasing to c£2k pa on a 4 day - I think long-term we'll be in 3-5 days a week.
Option 1 - a £3k VFR800 would hopefully last 4 years before having a £1k residual value, cost £300pa to insure, use c£500 of petrol and cost as per above so £1,600pa.
Option 2 - a £4k F800GT would hopefully last 5 years before having a £1k residual value, cost £300pa to insure, use c£500 of petrol and cost as per above so £1,800pa
Option 3 - a new NC750X would use c£350 of petrol, cost £400pa to insure and cost as per above so £2,150pa
They are all going to cost about the same as the train but I value my time. Commute times are ~40 minutes there, ~50 minutes home (ex. wife drop-off) on a bike versus the train which would be just over an hour each way- 3 trains which are all regular but over half the time spent commuting is walking/waiting - and leave me at the whim of TFL but understand the value in the ability to have a few beers etc more easily, plus the safety aspect - kids may be on the horizon in the near-term.
If there was a cost-effective electric bike that did the above I'd be all over it as the use-case is perfect for that. I have toyed with a 350cc scooter but fear it'll be stolen quickly/be uninsurable.
What would you all advise?
im in the same boat and im going for PCP.
i figured with PCP i have the latest bike every 3 years and maintenance should be £0, ignoring wear and tear items which will be needed on whatever bike i choose.
i figures if im putting money down i want something i can also enjoy and use on the weekends so scooter is not an option plus any nice scooter is similar costs to a bike now and is more likely to get stolen.
could get a banger but then would i need to upgrade it every couple years to keep up with sadiq s Euro 5- and needing the latest bike to avoid congestion and ULEZ charges?
i figured with PCP i have the latest bike every 3 years and maintenance should be £0, ignoring wear and tear items which will be needed on whatever bike i choose.
i figures if im putting money down i want something i can also enjoy and use on the weekends so scooter is not an option plus any nice scooter is similar costs to a bike now and is more likely to get stolen.
could get a banger but then would i need to upgrade it every couple years to keep up with sadiq s Euro 5- and needing the latest bike to avoid congestion and ULEZ charges?
Daniel T said:
im in the same boat and im going for PCP.
i figured with PCP i have the latest bike every 3 years and maintenance should be £0, ignoring wear and tear items which will be needed on whatever bike i choose.
i figures if im putting money down i want something i can also enjoy and use on the weekends so scooter is not an option plus any nice scooter is similar costs to a bike now and is more likely to get stolen.
could get a banger but then would i need to upgrade it every couple years to keep up with sadiq s Euro 5- and needing the latest bike to avoid congestion and ULEZ charges?
Thats fair, definitely the zero-hassle option - all of my bikes have been from salvage and had issues but rarely left me stranded, the old CBR600F had no working speedo and the current bike has no suspension/likes to cut out randomly.i figured with PCP i have the latest bike every 3 years and maintenance should be £0, ignoring wear and tear items which will be needed on whatever bike i choose.
i figures if im putting money down i want something i can also enjoy and use on the weekends so scooter is not an option plus any nice scooter is similar costs to a bike now and is more likely to get stolen.
could get a banger but then would i need to upgrade it every couple years to keep up with sadiq s Euro 5- and needing the latest bike to avoid congestion and ULEZ charges?
Thankfully all bikes 2007 and newer will be ULEZ compliant and even some made prior will be ok with a certificate of conformity widening the options, its always just a bit more difficult trying to work out the number of days we'll actually be back - something tells me it'll be closer to 5 than 3, making the bike the most cost/time effective option.
I can’t see how not fixing the forks is your best option.
Theses a suspension guy in Addington I’ve recently seen recommended on here. I don’t know for a fact but I’d bet he would fully refurbish them for £300 if you took them off and dropped them in.
Brake pads would be £20-£30 a set.
Unless you want shot for another reason I’d do that.
Theses a suspension guy in Addington I’ve recently seen recommended on here. I don’t know for a fact but I’d bet he would fully refurbish them for £300 if you took them off and dropped them in.
Brake pads would be £20-£30 a set.
Unless you want shot for another reason I’d do that.
trickywoo said:
I can’t see how not fixing the forks is your best option.
Theses a suspension guy in Addington I’ve recently seen recommended on here. I don’t know for a fact but I’d bet he would fully refurbish them for £300 if you took them off and dropped them in.
Brake pads would be £20-£30 a set.
Unless you want shot for another reason I’d do that.
Didn't know that was possible - google says T-tech suspension and Barons Speed Shop are based there, do you know which? - its just down the road too which is a huge bonusTheses a suspension guy in Addington I’ve recently seen recommended on here. I don’t know for a fact but I’d bet he would fully refurbish them for £300 if you took them off and dropped them in.
Brake pads would be £20-£30 a set.
Unless you want shot for another reason I’d do that.
Current bike reg is: YH60RVP for the fail sheet but issues I have are:
Front forks heavily pitted etc
As a result the seals have sent fluid everywhere
Fluid on brake disc's/pads necessitating their replacement
Rear wheel bearing play
Head bearing stiff/notchy
I had looked for second hand forks but hadn't seen any? - tbh, if I can fix the current one for <£500 it makes sense to do so
In that case PCP does sound like an attractive idea, but rather than focusing on a specific bike it may be worth having a hunt to see what deals are being offered. eg there was a big thread on here a year or two back where quite a few people got Africa Twins which were on a crazy cheap deal the time.
If my commuting mileage wasn’t so astronomical (circa 20k/year) I’d have gone down the PCP route long ago.
I’ve currently got the suggested F800GT as a commuter and yeah, it ticks all the boxes and would suit your situation well.
The biggest snag I’m finding is that as it gets older (it’s coming up 7 years old), basic jobs become entire days in the garage fecking about trying to release seized bolts and other bits that, although undamaged and still working, need to be removed for access to other broken bits.
I’ve also got a semi-retired Triumph Tiger in the garage which I occasionally fall back on. Currently investigating how to remove a totally seized chain tension bolt.
I find any bike that works for a living gets to around five years old and just seizes together, making even routine maintenance challenging.
I’ve come to the conclusion bangernomics isn’t always the way forward with bikes.
I’ve currently got the suggested F800GT as a commuter and yeah, it ticks all the boxes and would suit your situation well.
The biggest snag I’m finding is that as it gets older (it’s coming up 7 years old), basic jobs become entire days in the garage fecking about trying to release seized bolts and other bits that, although undamaged and still working, need to be removed for access to other broken bits.
I’ve also got a semi-retired Triumph Tiger in the garage which I occasionally fall back on. Currently investigating how to remove a totally seized chain tension bolt.
I find any bike that works for a living gets to around five years old and just seizes together, making even routine maintenance challenging.
I’ve come to the conclusion bangernomics isn’t always the way forward with bikes.
kiethton said:
Didn't know that was possible - google says T-tech suspension and Barons Speed Shop are based there, do you know which? - its just down the road too which is a huge bonus
Current bike reg is: YH60RVP for the fail sheet but issues I have are:
Front forks heavily pitted etc
As a result the seals have sent fluid everywhere
Fluid on brake disc's/pads necessitating their replacement
Rear wheel bearing play
Head bearing stiff/notchy
I had looked for second hand forks but hadn't seen any? - tbh, if I can fix the current one for <£500 it makes sense to do so
I'm pretty sure its T-tech. I made a mental note when I saw someone on here say they did quite a bit of work for what sounded like a very keen price.Current bike reg is: YH60RVP for the fail sheet but issues I have are:
Front forks heavily pitted etc
As a result the seals have sent fluid everywhere
Fluid on brake disc's/pads necessitating their replacement
Rear wheel bearing play
Head bearing stiff/notchy
I had looked for second hand forks but hadn't seen any? - tbh, if I can fix the current one for <£500 it makes sense to do so
They may even be able to sort out the stiff head bearing. Might just need a bit of grease which you have to take a lot of the front end to do but with the forks off you are halfway there.
Brake pads are neither here no there cost wise and a rear wheel bearing isn't a big deal either. You can just drift it out and use the old one to knock the new one in.
I'd say that would easily be doable for under £500 even if you don't want to do too much diy.
Edited to add there are some tidy looking forks here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154793309923?hash=item2...
You may well get yours reconditioned for less - I don't know.
Edited by trickywoo on Wednesday 9th February 13:54
Thanks all - I am totally easy on the bike - I did look for offers and there doesn't seem to be much, guess thats linked to the shortage?
Only Q on the CB500x - I get that its all urban (rarely +40mph) but would it have enough poke for 190kg of human weight (2/3rds me...)?
ETA - priced up the necessary parts and they're coming to £600 using second hand forks/eBay barings etc, a rebuild may see this to £500, then £200 labour (it's beyond me).
I'm think I can still get £500 as spares or repairs - standing bike it's worth £1k so makes sense to chop given other issues
Only Q on the CB500x - I get that its all urban (rarely +40mph) but would it have enough poke for 190kg of human weight (2/3rds me...)?
ETA - priced up the necessary parts and they're coming to £600 using second hand forks/eBay barings etc, a rebuild may see this to £500, then £200 labour (it's beyond me).
I'm think I can still get £500 as spares or repairs - standing bike it's worth £1k so makes sense to chop given other issues
Edited by kiethton on Wednesday 9th February 14:13
kiethton said:
Thanks all - I am totally easy on the bike - I did look for offers and there doesn't seem to be much, guess thats linked to the shortage?
Only Q on the CB500x - I get that its all urban (rarely +40mph) but would it have enough poke for 190kg of human weight (2/3rds me...)?
It would be fine. I’ve not ridden one but people go all over the world on them loaded up. NC750X is only about 10bhp more powerful I think. Neither are what you’d call exciting, but at least the new 500 looks ok(ish). Only Q on the CB500x - I get that its all urban (rarely +40mph) but would it have enough poke for 190kg of human weight (2/3rds me...)?
TT1138 said:
If you’re going for PCP I’d go for the CB500X over the NC750. £1k cheaper, no less performance in the real world and likely a better resale when you come to sell it. They’re popular with the small adventure bike crowd.
But if it's purely an urban hack then the DCT of the NC750 takes quite a bit of mental load off as you never need worry about gearchanges. Suzuki are always doing deals so I'd look for a Burgman to be honest. Crossflow Kid said:
If my commuting mileage wasn’t so astronomical (circa 20k/year) I’d have gone down the PCP route long ago.
I’ve currently got the suggested F800GT as a commuter and yeah, it ticks all the boxes and would suit your situation well.
The biggest snag I’m finding is that as it gets older (it’s coming up 7 years old), basic jobs become entire days in the garage fecking about trying to release seized bolts and other bits that, although undamaged and still working, need to be removed for access to other broken bits.
I’ve also got a semi-retired Triumph Tiger in the garage which I occasionally fall back on. Currently investigating how to remove a totally seized chain tension bolt.
I find any bike that works for a living gets to around five years old and just seizes together, making even routine maintenance challenging.
I’ve come to the conclusion bangernomics isn’t always the way forward with bikes.
It really isn't, bikes become worth absolutely nothing over about 40k miles unless it's a big GS and basically everything becomes uneconomical to repair. My bike has been a daily for years but having to work on some bits of it has become a renovation project which is now in negative equity territory, and I'm painfully aware if I'd just ebayed it two years ago I could now have a newer bike I could just turn the key and ride. I’ve currently got the suggested F800GT as a commuter and yeah, it ticks all the boxes and would suit your situation well.
The biggest snag I’m finding is that as it gets older (it’s coming up 7 years old), basic jobs become entire days in the garage fecking about trying to release seized bolts and other bits that, although undamaged and still working, need to be removed for access to other broken bits.
I’ve also got a semi-retired Triumph Tiger in the garage which I occasionally fall back on. Currently investigating how to remove a totally seized chain tension bolt.
I find any bike that works for a living gets to around five years old and just seizes together, making even routine maintenance challenging.
I’ve come to the conclusion bangernomics isn’t always the way forward with bikes.
Stuart Fordyce said:
Crossflow Kid said:
If my commuting mileage wasn’t so astronomical (circa 20k/year) I’d have gone down the PCP route long ago.
I’ve currently got the suggested F800GT as a commuter and yeah, it ticks all the boxes and would suit your situation well.
The biggest snag I’m finding is that as it gets older (it’s coming up 7 years old), basic jobs become entire days in the garage fecking about trying to release seized bolts and other bits that, although undamaged and still working, need to be removed for access to other broken bits.
I’ve also got a semi-retired Triumph Tiger in the garage which I occasionally fall back on. Currently investigating how to remove a totally seized chain tension bolt.
I find any bike that works for a living gets to around five years old and just seizes together, making even routine maintenance challenging.
I’ve come to the conclusion bangernomics isn’t always the way forward with bikes.
It really isn't, bikes become worth absolutely nothing over about 40k miles unless it's a big GS and basically everything becomes uneconomical to repair. My bike has been a daily for years but having to work on some bits of it has become a renovation project which is now in negative equity territory, and I'm painfully aware if I'd just ebayed it two years ago I could now have a newer bike I could just turn the key and ride. I’ve currently got the suggested F800GT as a commuter and yeah, it ticks all the boxes and would suit your situation well.
The biggest snag I’m finding is that as it gets older (it’s coming up 7 years old), basic jobs become entire days in the garage fecking about trying to release seized bolts and other bits that, although undamaged and still working, need to be removed for access to other broken bits.
I’ve also got a semi-retired Triumph Tiger in the garage which I occasionally fall back on. Currently investigating how to remove a totally seized chain tension bolt.
I find any bike that works for a living gets to around five years old and just seizes together, making even routine maintenance challenging.
I’ve come to the conclusion bangernomics isn’t always the way forward with bikes.
trickywoo said:
I'm pretty sure its T-tech. I made a mental note when I saw someone on here say they did quite a bit of work for what sounded like a very keen price.
They may even be able to sort out the stiff head bearing. Might just need a bit of grease which you have to take a lot of the front end to do but with the forks off you are halfway there.
Brake pads are neither here no there cost wise and a rear wheel bearing isn't a big deal either. You can just drift it out and use the old one to knock the new one in.
I'd say that would easily be doable for under £500 even if you don't want to do too much diy.
Edited to add there are some tidy looking forks here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154793309923?hash=item2...
You may well get yours reconditioned for less - I don't know.
Thanks had clocked those forks - I'll give them a call and see what I'm looking atThey may even be able to sort out the stiff head bearing. Might just need a bit of grease which you have to take a lot of the front end to do but with the forks off you are halfway there.
Brake pads are neither here no there cost wise and a rear wheel bearing isn't a big deal either. You can just drift it out and use the old one to knock the new one in.
I'd say that would easily be doable for under £500 even if you don't want to do too much diy.
Edited to add there are some tidy looking forks here https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154793309923?hash=item2...
You may well get yours reconditioned for less - I don't know.
Edited by trickywoo on Wednesday 9th February 13:54
Crossflow Kid said:
The thing is, what puts me off ebaying my Beemer before it’s value drops off a cliff is the nagging feeling that if I do get something newer, it’s only a couple of years down the line that I’ll be in exactly the same situation with that bike too.
I agree with that - and I don't have the money to just buy a 3 year old bike just off PCP. At least not the ones I might want. My Fazer is worth f
kall but as I'm moving out of London soon it's becoming less of an issue, if I can get it finished before the move...I'd probably go for the NC750 DCT on a lease. If I was doing that commute with those traffic levels I'd want something boringly reliable and I've seen those NC's in the classifieds with huge mileages - so they can clearly take it. I reckon DCT/Auto is a better bet for any busy commute - open roads are a different story. Seeing as you have secure parking I'd even think about a Burgman 400 or one of the 300cc scooters.
Front forks heavily pitted etc -budget choice would be a s/h pair eBay etc if available-less budget have them rebuilt and better springing and damping at the same time
As a result the seals have sent fluid everywhere
Fluid on brake disc's/pads necessitating their replacement - a can of break cleaner, a bit of sandpaper on the disc faces and new pads
Rear wheel bearing play- bearing easy to DIY at less than £20
Head bearing stiff/notchy - budget clean and regrease - less budget is replace and as you the forks are out should not add much to the cost
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