Best Compromise Enduro Bike

[Bob_Defly]

I posted about this the other day in the Mild Off-Roader thread, but wanted to get some thoughts.

From my research, there isn't a perfect compromise road legal / off-road trail bike. And I can sort of understand why, but there a couple of things I can't figure out.

At one end you have the relatively cheaper Honda CRF230/300L type bike. Super reliable, low maintenance costs and frequency, comfy, can handle high speeds, albeit not for too long. Downsides are the gearing needs a smaller sprocket for off-road, and it's ~320lbs wet, so a PITA to pick up all the time.

At the other end you have the highly tuned four strokes from KTM et al, which are much lighter, much better off-road, but generally have higher spec components, a much lighter frame, and a more race based engine that needs more frequent and more costly maintenance. I would also put the Honda CRF450L in this category.

When I had my CRF250L I researched a lot into weight reduction, but the overall consensus is that the frame is heavy, and you can only lose a few pounds, so it's an impossible task. I ended up buying a pure dirt bike that is 100lbs lighter, and much easier to handle on the trails. But I do miss being able to ride to them legally.

So why isn't there something that fills the gap in-between? I'm thinking something like:

A Honda 300cc-400cc road based engine, i.e. decent power, ridiculously reliable
Lightweight frame and battery etc.
Weight in the 250lb-270lb range
And priced somewhere around £7,000 (between the two type of bike mentioned above)

Why doesn't someone make this bike?

[Birky_41]

My brother just bought the crf300

He's short, fat and talentless off road. So far he seems to be enjoying it

[smifffymoto]

Beta Alp,light and nimble but may be a bit down on grunt.

[smifffymoto]

Beta Alp,light and nimble but may be a bit down on grunt.

[ThreadKiller]

I think the sole UK Beta dealer is in Cornwall, which put me off. I’ve been looking, but have been unable to find the bike you are searching for.

[Pazuzu]

Maybe a CRF250RX - not quite as extreme - 111kg and it's a Honda?

[david mcc]

What about the WR250 / WR450

probably the best all round compromise in my opinion

[Jakey123]

Don't bother with a beta if you are after something well screwed together.

Something like a used XR400 or drz400, rock solid and well built

[KTMsm]

Where are you based ? In the UK there are plenty of road legal enduro bikes

What are the modern equivalents of the XR400 / DRZ400 ?

I think many were hoping the 390 Adventure would be better but it's another "adventure" bike in name only

[Krikkit]

I think this was the idea with the KTM Freeride wasn't it? Something that had a pretty light frame from the normal 4T enduros, but a less highly strung engine that was more like road spec.

[KTMsm]

Krikkit said:

I think this was the idea with the KTM Freeride wasn't it? Something that had a pretty light frame from the normal 4T enduros, but a less highly strung engine that was more like road spec.

IIRC it was marketed as a cross between an Enduro and Trials bike - I thought I wanted one but on (an admittedly short) test ride it just felt wrong, standing on the pegs it felt like a kids bike (I'm 5'11)

The guy who's bike it was didn't like it either the geometry meant it was too lively at speed he sold it after 3 runs - that said it's the bike of choice for the shorter / older guys in my TRF group and they love them

[TT1138]

Surely just go 500EXC?

Plenty on Advrider.com that do crazy miles on them in the US. Nearly 1k pages on using the EXC as a lightweight adventure bike. Loads of people pushing the hours and mileage based servicing past what KTM recommend with seemingly no issues.

[podman]

Its older than your current selection but a Kawasaki KDX200/220 is great performer on and off road , with the light weight you mention, great build and reliability.

[Bob_Defly]

KTMsm said:

Where are you based ? In the UK there are plenty of road legal enduro bikes

What are the modern equivalents of the XR400 / DRZ400 ?

That's my point, there isn't one. The only really good road legal enduros are the KTM/Husky 500's. But they are pretty expensive, and still need a lot more maintenance that a road engine.

I just don't understand why Honda don't do a lightweight 'Dakar spec' CRF300L, that has road style maintenance, and decent off-road ability. I dunno maybe there isn't a market for one.

Maybe £7 ish is too much for what many consider a 'beginner bike'.

[KTMsm]

Bob_Defly said:

I just don't understand why Honda don't do a lightweight 'Dakar spec' CRF300L, that has road style maintenance, and decent off-road ability. I dunno maybe there isn't a market for one.

Maybe £7 ish is too much for what many consider a 'beginner bike'.

I think the reason is as you've mentioned - that you can't really lighten a CRF300L easily it needs to be that weight to maintain it's reliability, if you lighten all the components you end up back to an enduro machine

Last time I checked a new CRF 300 was £5k and a new KTM 250 enduro bike was close to £9k !

Lightweight costs !

[Steve Bass]

because at the price point it would come in, it's too close to the better specc'd competition bikes.
Beta make's the X trainer with downgraded components, lower spec motor etc and a price that says "buy the RR"
But road use vs off road use is such a gulf, to make a bike road reliable makes it a pig offroad. Anyone saying DRZ or XR 500 should spend a day picking and kicking the effing things to realise why you just don't want to take them on anything remotely difficult...

And although the KTM manuals specifies fairly stringent maintenance, if you just change the oil fairly regularly, they seem to keep on truckin' . My old EXC400 got nothing but filters and oil and never missed a beat. 2T's are even easier and reliable if top quality mixing oil is used religiously..
Higher end stuff goes by engine hours so it's largely immaterial how you rack those hours up....

And honestly, I don't understand this term, 'mild offroader"?? modern enduro bikes are SO EASY to ride, how can they get any milder?? They're not like the nasty 500's of 20 years ago... 4T's that pull from zero rpm without a complaint and2T's that have immense low end and great response with engines that last (comparatively) for ever.... Any milder and you might as well hike the trail rather than ride it....

Edited by Steve Bass on Monday 17th January 18:44

[KTMsm]

Steve Bass said:

And honestly, I don't understand this term, 'mild offroader"?? modern enduro bikes are SO EASY to ride, how can they get any milder??

I think they mean that they only need a Trail bike - they don't need 12" suspension and 70bhp and they want to change the oil once a year

TBH I can see their point I only use a fraction of my 450's capability on green lanes but I do the odd enduro practise day too and it makes the road between lanes effortless - speed is limited by my mousses anyway

[xstian]

How about a CCM 450gp adventure? You would have to get a used one, but they often come up for sale with low miles. Same engine that was used by BMW and have a very trick frame to keep the weight low. Not much cop for a enduro, but for trail ridind and covering road miles I can't think of anything better.

https://www.ccm-motorcycles.com/bikes/gp450-advent...

[Krikkit]

Steve Bass said:

And although the KTM manuals specifies fairly stringent maintenance, if you just change the oil fairly regularly, they seem to keep on truckin' . My old EXC400 got nothing but filters and oil and never missed a beat. 2T's are even easier and reliable if top quality mixing oil is used religiously..
Higher end stuff goes by engine hours so it's largely immaterial how you rack those hours up....

I suspect their maintenance hours are based around thrashing the hell out of it too - I suspect you could double that life for relatively sensible laning and cruising on the road slowly.

xstian said:

How about a CCM 450gp adventure? You would have to get a used one, but they often come up for sale with low miles. Same engine that was used by BMW and have a very trick frame to keep the weight low. Not much cop for a enduro, but for trail ridind and covering road miles I can't think of anything better.

https://www.ccm-motorcycles.com/bikes/gp450-advent...

125kg dry, so what, 160kg wet? Same as a DRZ really.

[xstian]

Krikkit said:

Steve Bass said:

And although the KTM manuals specifies fairly stringent maintenance, if you just change the oil fairly regularly, they seem to keep on truckin' . My old EXC400 got nothing but filters and oil and never missed a beat. 2T's are even easier and reliable if top quality mixing oil is used religiously..
Higher end stuff goes by engine hours so it's largely immaterial how you rack those hours up....

I suspect their maintenance hours are based around thrashing the hell out of it too - I suspect you could double that life for relatively sensible laning and cruising on the road slowly.

xstian said:

How about a CCM 450gp adventure? You would have to get a used one, but they often come up for sale with low miles. Same engine that was used by BMW and have a very trick frame to keep the weight low. Not much cop for a enduro, but for trail ridind and covering road miles I can't think of anything better.

https://www.ccm-motorcycles.com/bikes/gp450-advent...

125kg dry, so what, 160kg wet? Same as a DRZ really.

Well it has a 20l fuel tank, couple of litres of coolant and same again for engine oil. So probably closer to 150kg fully fuelled , but there is a lot more to it than a drz. The bike is designed to be great on the dirt and still capable of being used on the road all day, albeit probably not very quickly.

But yes it's still got a bit of weight behind it. I don't suppose a 100kg ktm rear subframe will be up to supporting luggage.