Would you buy a new bike without a 6-axis IMU?
Discussion
I'm looking to replace my 2005 VFR800 with something vaguely similar, but newer and a bit more upright.
None on the bikes on my short list (nearly new Tiger 800 XRT/XRX, nearly new VFR800 Crossrunner, new Tiger Sport 850) have 6 axis IMU, the bikes that meet my criteria and do have IMU are either more than I want to spend (Tiger 900, Multistrada) or don't appeal to me (Z1000SX, V-STROM 1050).
I don't ride aggressively or corner anywhere close to the limit, I don't intentionally brake late into corners and I have no interest in riding on the track - but I do ride all year round and I want to be as safe as possible on the bike.
Would you consider an IMU essential in a new bike ? Have you ever been in a situation other than on track where multi axis ABS has saved you ?
None on the bikes on my short list (nearly new Tiger 800 XRT/XRX, nearly new VFR800 Crossrunner, new Tiger Sport 850) have 6 axis IMU, the bikes that meet my criteria and do have IMU are either more than I want to spend (Tiger 900, Multistrada) or don't appeal to me (Z1000SX, V-STROM 1050).
I don't ride aggressively or corner anywhere close to the limit, I don't intentionally brake late into corners and I have no interest in riding on the track - but I do ride all year round and I want to be as safe as possible on the bike.
Would you consider an IMU essential in a new bike ? Have you ever been in a situation other than on track where multi axis ABS has saved you ?
Seight_Returns said:
Would you consider an IMU essential in a new bike ? Have you ever been in a situation other than on track where multi axis ABS has saved you ?
No to both. I'm not a riding god just sensible within the limits stuff. On a bike with big power it makes sense to have but I don't see a need for 'electronics' until you are over say 130bhp. My biggest nod to safety besides riding style is getting the best tyres I can.I use ABS more in a car because I know its there and sometimes if in doubt its best to just stand on the brakes as hard as possible and assess your options after. I tend not to ride a bike the same way.
How the hell did we all survive on bikes before about 2015?
I'd be cautions of buying a bike without ABS but it wouldn't be an absolute deal breaker. I'd be cautious of buying a bike without traction control if it had more than about 130bhp. Beyond that, it's all just "nice to haves" or toys supplied because they can rather than because they're needed.
I'd be cautions of buying a bike without ABS but it wouldn't be an absolute deal breaker. I'd be cautious of buying a bike without traction control if it had more than about 130bhp. Beyond that, it's all just "nice to haves" or toys supplied because they can rather than because they're needed.
I don't really care, but what I'd want is usable electronics: i.e. some do it better than others with the ability to customise and set it up 'logically'.
Some bikes are very fixed with x configuration in one mode and y in another and you can't alter anything. The ones that let you have a custom setup where you tweak it to suit what you want, or turn off for that matter.
That said, I own two 20 year old bikes, one with no electronics other than the regulator/rectifier and the ignition, and the other has ABS and not much else! I haven't died on them, yet.
Some bikes are very fixed with x configuration in one mode and y in another and you can't alter anything. The ones that let you have a custom setup where you tweak it to suit what you want, or turn off for that matter.
That said, I own two 20 year old bikes, one with no electronics other than the regulator/rectifier and the ignition, and the other has ABS and not much else! I haven't died on them, yet.
How did we survive without all of these rider aids you have to ask yourself.
If it's purely road riding and you're not riding all year round then it shouldn't be an issue regardless of how much power a bike has, it's all in the wrist at the end of the day.
ABS would be nice to have obviously, but my first bike with ABS was a Multi 1200 back in 2010 and it's the only bike that I actually used the ABS on, didn't save me though. Every bike since has had ABS and 6 axis IMU's, never needed them.
If it's purely road riding and you're not riding all year round then it shouldn't be an issue regardless of how much power a bike has, it's all in the wrist at the end of the day.
ABS would be nice to have obviously, but my first bike with ABS was a Multi 1200 back in 2010 and it's the only bike that I actually used the ABS on, didn't save me though. Every bike since has had ABS and 6 axis IMU's, never needed them.
I dont care, I will just buy what I fancy regardless of the electronics package. Never had ABS when I commuted by bike in the 80s mid winter ....you soon learnt after you had dropped the bike a couple of times on an icy morning 
I guess in 5-10 years all these gizmos will be standard anyway and we will have future generations of riders/drivers who cant even drive a geared vehicle as electric vehicles are just twist n go, doing a test for a geared vehicle will become more of a novelty.
I guess in 5-10 years all these gizmos will be standard anyway and we will have future generations of riders/drivers who cant even drive a geared vehicle as electric vehicles are just twist n go, doing a test for a geared vehicle will become more of a novelty.
Seight_Returns said:
I'm looking to replace my 2005 VFR800 with something vaguely similar, but newer and a bit more upright.
None on the bikes on my short list (nearly new Tiger 800 XRT/XRX, nearly new VFR800 Crossrunner, new Tiger Sport 850) have 6 axis IMU, the bikes that meet my criteria and do have IMU are either more than I want to spend (Tiger 900, Multistrada) or don't appeal to me (Z1000SX, V-STROM 1050).
I don't ride aggressively or corner anywhere close to the limit, I don't intentionally brake late into corners and I have no interest in riding on the track - but I do ride all year round and I want to be as safe as possible on the bike.
Would you consider an IMU essential in a new bike ? Have you ever been in a situation other than on track where multi axis ABS has saved you ?
I wouldn’t ride a bike without cornering ABS and cornering traction. Just prefer having the extra security if conditions turn poor. None on the bikes on my short list (nearly new Tiger 800 XRT/XRX, nearly new VFR800 Crossrunner, new Tiger Sport 850) have 6 axis IMU, the bikes that meet my criteria and do have IMU are either more than I want to spend (Tiger 900, Multistrada) or don't appeal to me (Z1000SX, V-STROM 1050).
I don't ride aggressively or corner anywhere close to the limit, I don't intentionally brake late into corners and I have no interest in riding on the track - but I do ride all year round and I want to be as safe as possible on the bike.
Would you consider an IMU essential in a new bike ? Have you ever been in a situation other than on track where multi axis ABS has saved you ?
Harry H said:
TT1138 said:
I wouldn’t ride a bike without cornering ABS and cornering traction. Just prefer having the extra security if conditions turn poor.
Alternatively one could adapt their riding style to the prevailing conditions.Yoof of today eh!
Nope, I would not buy a new bike without cornering ABS and a 6-axis IMU.
This eliminates bikes where the manufacturer has performed a foot shot by bring out a new model without it - Honda NT1100 springs to mind, where the lack of a 6 axis IMU in a new model bike compounds the other fatal error of a touring bike where you can't fit a helmet in the panniers.
A used bike without it would not be a deal breaker for me, OTOH there are enough bikes with it now that I'd probably wait it out until one came along which has it.
OP, you could consider a BMW F900XR. The TE model either has it or has it as an option, can't remember which. Has a stupid seat though, so you would probably need to have the seat reupholstered. The Yamaha 9GT (not the 900GT) has it and is a useable road bike, although with stupid looking panniers. Both have or can be optioned with twin headlights; always good if you ride year round.
Cruise control is another item I would not buy another bike, new or used, without. Riding along the miles of 50mph average speed cameras on the M4 without cruise control gets annoying fast.
This eliminates bikes where the manufacturer has performed a foot shot by bring out a new model without it - Honda NT1100 springs to mind, where the lack of a 6 axis IMU in a new model bike compounds the other fatal error of a touring bike where you can't fit a helmet in the panniers.
A used bike without it would not be a deal breaker for me, OTOH there are enough bikes with it now that I'd probably wait it out until one came along which has it.
bogie said:
Never had ABS when I commuted by bike in the 80s mid winter ....you soon learnt after you had dropped the bike a couple of times on an icy morning
That's why you have the electronics, so you don't have to scratch your head looking at your scratched bike after you crashed it!OP, you could consider a BMW F900XR. The TE model either has it or has it as an option, can't remember which. Has a stupid seat though, so you would probably need to have the seat reupholstered. The Yamaha 9GT (not the 900GT) has it and is a useable road bike, although with stupid looking panniers. Both have or can be optioned with twin headlights; always good if you ride year round.
Cruise control is another item I would not buy another bike, new or used, without. Riding along the miles of 50mph average speed cameras on the M4 without cruise control gets annoying fast.
Edited by Iminquarantine on Friday 7th January 13:48
catso said:
Harry H said:
TT1138 said:
I wouldn’t ride a bike without cornering ABS and cornering traction. Just prefer having the extra security if conditions turn poor.
Alternatively one could adapt their riding style to the prevailing conditions.Yoof of today eh!
I wouldn't buy a new bike without it, no.
The safety net is there for those rare occaisions where the unexpected happens, or, lord above, you make a human error. In which case, for the sake of a few hundred quid i'd much rather have ABS and TC that knew which angle the bike was at so I had a better chance of staying on it. The potential downside of an RTA strikes me as something worth mitigating where you can afford to.
I certainly don't understand the 'unless you're on a track' bit, because in my fairly limited experience (c. 20ish trackdays) the track is the one place it feels less useful, because the whole situation is more predictable and controllable. The corners tend to be the same each lap, surface more or less the same (minus weather of course) etc. In fact the track bikes i've used don't have ABS as it messes with the lever feel at the limit.
I could see the argument for a true 'analogue' bike with cable throttle etc as being somewhat of a pleasure in it's own right. But if you've got to have an electronic throttle connection and ABS due to Euro 5 then why would you want the manufacturer to skimp to give you worse ABS and TC?
Cheers,
Rob
The safety net is there for those rare occaisions where the unexpected happens, or, lord above, you make a human error. In which case, for the sake of a few hundred quid i'd much rather have ABS and TC that knew which angle the bike was at so I had a better chance of staying on it. The potential downside of an RTA strikes me as something worth mitigating where you can afford to.
I certainly don't understand the 'unless you're on a track' bit, because in my fairly limited experience (c. 20ish trackdays) the track is the one place it feels less useful, because the whole situation is more predictable and controllable. The corners tend to be the same each lap, surface more or less the same (minus weather of course) etc. In fact the track bikes i've used don't have ABS as it messes with the lever feel at the limit.
I could see the argument for a true 'analogue' bike with cable throttle etc as being somewhat of a pleasure in it's own right. But if you've got to have an electronic throttle connection and ABS due to Euro 5 then why would you want the manufacturer to skimp to give you worse ABS and TC?
Cheers,
Rob
- edit to add: I'm not saying don't ride a bike without one - infact mine doesn't - but if you're buying a 'new' bike which kind of suggests a decent budget, then yeah, deffo. And heated grips.
Edited by Rob_F on Friday 7th January 13:52
I've never ridden a bike with ABS or traction (and have indeed have a handful of times overcooked it into a bend and had to decide whether to brake or lean, situations I presume it would have made a lot less butt-clenching), but am now considering a new Triumph Street Triple. I however plan on buying one used and then waiting for them to equip it with it before I buy a new one as a keeper. It (to me) seems the ideal bike to then keep once everything is electrified.
All these people who claim not to need it because they've survived up to now would presumably be the ones running cars on crossplys with drum brakes and no seatbelts.
All these people who claim not to need it because they've survived up to now would presumably be the ones running cars on crossplys with drum brakes and no seatbelts.
TV200 said:
I've never ridden a bike with ABS or traction (and have indeed have a handful of times overcooked it into a bend and had to decide whether to brake or lean, situations I presume it would have made a lot less butt-clenching), but am now considering a new Triumph Street Triple. I however plan on buying one used and then waiting for them to equip it with it before I buy a new one as a keeper. It (to me) seems the ideal bike to then keep once everything is electrified.
All these people who claim not to need it because they've survived up to now would presumably be the ones running cars on crossplys with drum brakes and no seatbelts.
I think there is a HUGE difference between simply not riding a bike without a 6-axis IMU, (thread title!) and thus the various features that go with that, and being perfectly happy riding a bike that doesn't have any/some/all the rider aids. There's also a HUGE difference between being happy riding a bike without rider aids and thinking you're a riding god that doesn't ever need them. For me, do I find them "comforting"? Yes. Have I needed them in the real world? Yes, but only "old fashioned" (non-6 axis/cornering) ABS. Would I ride a bike without them? Yes, though I'd prefer ABS. Do I think they reduce risk? Yes, but only on a small number of occasions and riding a bike is statistically a risk. All these people who claim not to need it because they've survived up to now would presumably be the ones running cars on crossplys with drum brakes and no seatbelts.
Harry H said:
Alternatively one could adapt their riding style to the prevailing conditions.
Yoof of today eh!
Youth? Yoof of today eh!
Been there, done that on bikes without ABS and traction control.
Bikes with an IMU still require you to ride to the conditions, but if you’ve got the choice of a bike with them or without them, I’d rather have them.
Im sure its no different on some car groups. Would you buy a new car without an airbag, ABS and traction control ? probably not as a daily driver....probably yes if its a 40 year old classic for a few sunny days out. Sometimes its nice to ride a classic bike or car, something totally analogue.
I understand the logic of increased safety for a daily commuter. One day a self riding bike that cant make mistakes could be taking you to work. Who would buy one of those ?
I understand the logic of increased safety for a daily commuter. One day a self riding bike that cant make mistakes could be taking you to work. Who would buy one of those ?
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