Owning 90's 250 2 strokes? Experiences?
Discussion
Hi all, looking for some advise really.
I'm currently looking for a new bike and I've always hankered after a 250 2 stroke twin, something like and RGV, TZR, RS or NSR. I remember dreaming over them as a teenager and I look into them every time I'm replacing my road bike, but I've never bitten the bullet and bought one.
With values sky rocketing it feels like if I don't do it now, I'll probably never get the opportunity.
So I was thinking of borrowing some money and just going for it.
But I was wondering what peoples experiences are with owning these things? I know they are never going to be like a modern fuel injected 4 stroke machine, but how bad are they?
Do they need a lot of maintenance?
What are they like on the road?
Is it a case of never meet your heroes?
Just any stories or experiences would be great to hear.
I recently sold my Aprilia RSV Mille, I don't ride fast on the road at all and don't do a lot of miles on a motorbike. I have a track bike and a (2 stroke) enduro bike so I get most my kicks elsewhere. This would be more of a nice thing to own, look at in the garage, maintain and go out for ride outs with my dad.
Cheers
I'm currently looking for a new bike and I've always hankered after a 250 2 stroke twin, something like and RGV, TZR, RS or NSR. I remember dreaming over them as a teenager and I look into them every time I'm replacing my road bike, but I've never bitten the bullet and bought one.
With values sky rocketing it feels like if I don't do it now, I'll probably never get the opportunity.
So I was thinking of borrowing some money and just going for it.
But I was wondering what peoples experiences are with owning these things? I know they are never going to be like a modern fuel injected 4 stroke machine, but how bad are they?
Do they need a lot of maintenance?
What are they like on the road?
Is it a case of never meet your heroes?
Just any stories or experiences would be great to hear.
I recently sold my Aprilia RSV Mille, I don't ride fast on the road at all and don't do a lot of miles on a motorbike. I have a track bike and a (2 stroke) enduro bike so I get most my kicks elsewhere. This would be more of a nice thing to own, look at in the garage, maintain and go out for ride outs with my dad.
Cheers
I had an RS250 back in the day when they were relatively modern - it was a 1997 (mk1) and I owned it in about 2000.
Mechanically I never had any issues with it but even then spares were nigh-on impossible to get. I needed a speedo cable the whole time I owned it and never managed to get one! I can't imagine that's got any better as the years have gone on and may not be such an issue with the Japanese 250s.
Performance wise it will feel mental up to about 100mph then tail off quickly. It won't actually be super-quick up to that, but it'll feel it!
I would say though that nostalgia isn't always what you think it'll be! I'd always wanted a Bimota BB1 (the 650 single) so last year bought one. It's the first 'modern' bike I've had for a while and the anxiety of something going wrong with it and needing spares was overwhelming. The main thing on those is that the fuel tank is slung under the engine and I spoke to a couple of people who had bikes off the road as the tank had rotted away and you can't get replacements. One chap even tried to sell me his bike for £1000 which was complete bar the tank!
My advice would be do loads of research and make sure that you're comfortable with the running costs and the spares availability or you may find the experience is tainted worrying about the thing breaking and costing a fortune to repair!
Mechanically I never had any issues with it but even then spares were nigh-on impossible to get. I needed a speedo cable the whole time I owned it and never managed to get one! I can't imagine that's got any better as the years have gone on and may not be such an issue with the Japanese 250s.
Performance wise it will feel mental up to about 100mph then tail off quickly. It won't actually be super-quick up to that, but it'll feel it!
I would say though that nostalgia isn't always what you think it'll be! I'd always wanted a Bimota BB1 (the 650 single) so last year bought one. It's the first 'modern' bike I've had for a while and the anxiety of something going wrong with it and needing spares was overwhelming. The main thing on those is that the fuel tank is slung under the engine and I spoke to a couple of people who had bikes off the road as the tank had rotted away and you can't get replacements. One chap even tried to sell me his bike for £1000 which was complete bar the tank!
My advice would be do loads of research and make sure that you're comfortable with the running costs and the spares availability or you may find the experience is tainted worrying about the thing breaking and costing a fortune to repair!
I had both a Kawasaki KR-1 & Suzuki RGV (RGV bought new in ‘93) and absolutely loved them. I was only around 19/20 years of age back then and had no experience of big 4 strokes. So if you’re used to big bikes you will find 250 strokers quite small.
I never had any issues with either of mine, but they were almost new & were new. They need to be run on only the finest fully synthetic 2 stroke oil, and given the age of these bikes now, will probably be due a rebuild/replacement piston..if haven’t already.
They are a unique and brilliant experience once you cross that magical 7k rpm power band. The KR-1 for me was that bit quicker than the RGV. I saw 136mph on the clock (private driveway) which for a 250 was amazing!
You’re right, prices are going nuts right now as those of us who had one 30 years ago want to revisit our youth.
I think you need to be aware of imports and the NSR in particular, as I think many were restricted to around 45bhp.. and consequently difficult to derestrict?
If you really want one, now is the time as prices will probably climb a little further still. Mint RD500s & RG500s are hitting near £20k which really is a bit crazy.
Awesome little bikes though.. I would definitely love another
I never had any issues with either of mine, but they were almost new & were new. They need to be run on only the finest fully synthetic 2 stroke oil, and given the age of these bikes now, will probably be due a rebuild/replacement piston..if haven’t already.
They are a unique and brilliant experience once you cross that magical 7k rpm power band. The KR-1 for me was that bit quicker than the RGV. I saw 136mph on the clock (private driveway) which for a 250 was amazing!
You’re right, prices are going nuts right now as those of us who had one 30 years ago want to revisit our youth.
I think you need to be aware of imports and the NSR in particular, as I think many were restricted to around 45bhp.. and consequently difficult to derestrict?
If you really want one, now is the time as prices will probably climb a little further still. Mint RD500s & RG500s are hitting near £20k which really is a bit crazy.
Awesome little bikes though.. I would definitely love another
How much are they actually selling for these days? I know you see crazy prices being advertised, but what are they actually going for?
I looked at a smart card NSR250 back in my youth but bought an FZR400 instead. There was a grey importer (remember those?!) near Norwich called Seastar (now a Ducati dealer) and they'd always have loads of TZRs, NSRs and the last generation RGVs. Haven't seen one of those RGVs for years, actually!
You're right about the powerband, it's something everyone should experience once in their motorcycling life!
I looked at a smart card NSR250 back in my youth but bought an FZR400 instead. There was a grey importer (remember those?!) near Norwich called Seastar (now a Ducati dealer) and they'd always have loads of TZRs, NSRs and the last generation RGVs. Haven't seen one of those RGVs for years, actually!
You're right about the powerband, it's something everyone should experience once in their motorcycling life!
I had RG/RGV/TZR/RS/KR1s for many years as daily transport and for well over 50k, all weathers including commuting into London.
Aside from lousy MPG and a thirst for oil, they were all stock and never let me down. Very cheap to service compared to a diesel and great fun. Also raced TZRs which were tuned to destruction, but that's another story.
The problem now is getting one in great nick and that is either totally standard, or properly tuned and well setup. Rebuilding one yourself is perhaps the only way to know for sure.
I still love them and have moved away from R1s etc, back to a lightly tuned 350 YPVS with modern suspension and brakes. About 65bhp, 140kgs wet and great fun at sensible speeds.
Aside from lousy MPG and a thirst for oil, they were all stock and never let me down. Very cheap to service compared to a diesel and great fun. Also raced TZRs which were tuned to destruction, but that's another story.
The problem now is getting one in great nick and that is either totally standard, or properly tuned and well setup. Rebuilding one yourself is perhaps the only way to know for sure.
I still love them and have moved away from R1s etc, back to a lightly tuned 350 YPVS with modern suspension and brakes. About 65bhp, 140kgs wet and great fun at sensible speeds.
I recall seizing my RD350 LC back in 80’s, I didn’t pull the clutch in, huge skid and ruined engine and poorer pistons out of exhaust! Bent conrod’s
My mate still has his 93 RGV250, fresh from a rebuild after 20 years. Cost a fortune to put right, but as mentioned worth a bit
Smell lovely
My mate still has his 93 RGV250, fresh from a rebuild after 20 years. Cost a fortune to put right, but as mentioned worth a bit
Smell lovely
Do some research into what you want. Some are easier to live with than others. I have an rgv and a early tzr, both are easy enough to get parts for, but the TZR is much easier to live with. Parts are cheaper and the bike on the whole is pretty reliable.
I actually prefer the tzr over the Rgv. It's not as fast or as pretty but you can mostly just get on it and wring it neck while not having to worry about your licence. The Rgv was my first bike after passing my test but the TZR is the one I would keep.
I actually prefer the tzr over the Rgv. It's not as fast or as pretty but you can mostly just get on it and wring it neck while not having to worry about your licence. The Rgv was my first bike after passing my test but the TZR is the one I would keep.
srob said:
How much are they actually selling for these days? I know you see crazy prices being advertised, but what are they actually going for?
I looked at a smart card NSR250 back in my youth but bought an FZR400 instead. There was a grey importer (remember those?!) near Norwich called Seastar (now a Ducati dealer) and they'd always have loads of TZRs, NSRs and the last generation RGVs. Haven't seen one of those RGVs for years, actually!
You're right about the powerband, it's something everyone should experience once in their motorcycling life!
I did similar and bought an RVF400 instead of an RS250, the Honda was a great bike too, I’m all it’s gear driven cam mini screaming V4 goodness but the 250 2 stroke is still a biking itch I’ve not scratched.I looked at a smart card NSR250 back in my youth but bought an FZR400 instead. There was a grey importer (remember those?!) near Norwich called Seastar (now a Ducati dealer) and they'd always have loads of TZRs, NSRs and the last generation RGVs. Haven't seen one of those RGVs for years, actually!
You're right about the powerband, it's something everyone should experience once in their motorcycling life!
srob said:
How much are they actually selling for these days? I know you see crazy prices being advertised, but what are they actually going for?
I looked at a smart card NSR250 back in my youth but bought an FZR400 instead. There was a grey importer (remember those?!) near Norwich called Seastar (now a Ducati dealer) and they'd always have loads of TZRs, NSRs and the last generation RGVs. Haven't seen one of those RGVs for years, actually!
You're right about the powerband, it's something everyone should experience once in their motorcycling life!
I remember when I bought my CBR400 tri arm, I too was looking at smart card NSRs, V Twin and RC TZRs but plumped fof the CBR as I was commuting by bike.I looked at a smart card NSR250 back in my youth but bought an FZR400 instead. There was a grey importer (remember those?!) near Norwich called Seastar (now a Ducati dealer) and they'd always have loads of TZRs, NSRs and the last generation RGVs. Haven't seen one of those RGVs for years, actually!
You're right about the powerband, it's something everyone should experience once in their motorcycling life!
Showrooms stacked full of all types of 400, 2 stroke and 4 stroke 250s, it was fab
The Aprilia rs 250 is the most modern. Get a mk2. Honestly its a pleasure to ride and doesn't feel dated, it pulls strong out the powerband and handles like a modern bike. Corner speed is your friend.
I couldn't keep off mine although it was a one owner 4000 mile bike, the ownership got the better of me, i became paranoid about using it and its value. The rs will take a modern profile front tire and transforms the bike with reduced head shake although clearance is limited on the front mudguard.
My bike was factory fresh and had never been touched by bodging hands so I guess it made my experience trouble free, I doubt I could buy it back , sold 18 months ago for 7k.
Been there done that cant be arsed again with worrying about its value when in reality its worth a lot less than most decent modern bikes parked in the garage .
Buy it ride it and enjoy but they are never going to be retirement money just some fun that you can hope to get your money back on when you sell it, providing it doesn't seize up
. Then your fooked.
russian pic hosting
I couldn't keep off mine although it was a one owner 4000 mile bike, the ownership got the better of me, i became paranoid about using it and its value. The rs will take a modern profile front tire and transforms the bike with reduced head shake although clearance is limited on the front mudguard.
My bike was factory fresh and had never been touched by bodging hands so I guess it made my experience trouble free, I doubt I could buy it back , sold 18 months ago for 7k.
Been there done that cant be arsed again with worrying about its value when in reality its worth a lot less than most decent modern bikes parked in the garage .
Buy it ride it and enjoy but they are never going to be retirement money just some fun that you can hope to get your money back on when you sell it, providing it doesn't seize up
. Then your fooked. russian pic hostingI had rgv250 and a Tzr250 when I was younger. Now many years later I have a Tdr250, same engine as Tzr250 but in a super moto style. Some would say, way ahead of its time style wise. Some parts are a challenge, but for old yamahas theres yambits, they do oem and pattern parts and seem to be growing the catalog of spares available. Fowlers in Bristol also sell a few Oem yamaha spares.
It's definitely a different riding experience to modern bikes - smell, vibrations and powerband.
The tzr250 engine isnt too bad out of power band. When in powerband feels fast but isn't by modern bikes standard. Oh the tzr250 was the first proddie 250 to lap isle of man at 100mph.
It's definitely a different riding experience to modern bikes - smell, vibrations and powerband.
The tzr250 engine isnt too bad out of power band. When in powerband feels fast but isn't by modern bikes standard. Oh the tzr250 was the first proddie 250 to lap isle of man at 100mph.
Drabbesttunic said:
I'd be checking for parts availability, its never great for older Yamahas and the Kawasaki KR1/1S you'll struggle with too.
^^^^ thisThe Hondas engine parts are either difficult or impossible to get nowadays although some specialist suppliers may exist.
By far the best support is for the RGV/RS's but even now, barrels are no longer available.
I have a Mk2 RS250 Track bike and rebuilding the motor correctly cost a lot. To ride, they're difficult and finicky but immense fun when on the pipe. 60bhp never felt so good
So my advice....
Do it but be aware that they are neither cheap to buy nor maintain and regardless of what the seller says, budget on a full top end refresh as a minimum.....
Good luck
Most of my 2-strokes were 1970s Yamaha RDs, plus a KH 500.
But I did have a couple of 80s ones, an RD250LC and an RG250 that just moved the performance bar a bit higher. And a 90s stroker would no doubt be another step up.
What I loved most about them was how light they were, as well as being pretty simple mechanically.
Damn - I want another 2-stroke now.
But I did have a couple of 80s ones, an RD250LC and an RG250 that just moved the performance bar a bit higher. And a 90s stroker would no doubt be another step up.
What I loved most about them was how light they were, as well as being pretty simple mechanically.
Damn - I want another 2-stroke now.
Waynester said:
I had both a Kawasaki KR-1 & Suzuki RGV
Me too but the KR-1 was new. It ruined me financially as I really couldn’t afford it but thrashed it mercilessly until it broke (twice) and then highsided it in Rykas car park at Box Hill on a Sunday. 
The RGV was faultless and felt more stable in the corners.
I loved both and would love to have either again.
Edited by toasty on Wednesday 22 December 23:04
I almost bought a new Suzuki RGV250 back in the nineties but the deal fell through and I bought a new Yamaha FZR600R instead. The Yamaha was night and day faster as well as reliable. I was in my early twenties at the time and didn’t regret buying the FZR.
Fast forward twenty some years and I began to wonder what I might have missed out on so off I went and bought both a Kawasaki KR1 and KR1s. Purchased them about 5 years ago and they cost me about £2800 each after I had finished cosmetically tidying them, so they weren’t’ daft money. Both turned out really nice and we’re great rideable examples rather than show queens.
Being 5’7” and about 10 stone I had no problems squeezing onto them. However I quickly became used to the performance which quite frankly i found to be nothing special and bear in mind the last modern bike I rode prior to these 2 strokes was a Ducati 748 which I sold back in 2002, so I haven’t been exposed to any modern hyper bikes.
There is a zing higher up the Rev range but nothing approaching what I had imaged from reading over my old magazine articles. The 250’s were also built to a budget and it shows. They almost feel toy like when compared to larger capacity bikes and the plastics are cheap and prone to breaking. You will also be removing the fairings more frequently than on a four stroke which doesn’t help the lugs longevity.
Parts are a consideration for the Kawasaki’s and are becoming difficult to come by. OEM head-gaskets are no longer available. I believe the suzuki may now be supported under the classic Suzuki parts scheme so availability may be better for them.
I personally did not have any reliability issues with either bike but I didn’t do many miles and both bikes had fresh engines.
Whilst I enjoyed riding them I soon grew tired of them and sold them both, one 4yrs ago and the other last year. I got somewhere in the region of £3850 each. The one I sold last year turned up shortly afterwards in a dealers for £7k although I don’t know if it sold. I’m not sure what demand is like now but I remember not getting much interest and both bikes were advertised below £4K. Did get a few £3k offers over the phone but only 1 physical viewer per bike.
I don’t regret scratching the 2 stroke itch as I fell lucky that the market gave me the experience for free. Would I pay £6k, £7k or more for a 250? Knowing what I know now, no I wouldn’t, but then I’ve already scratched the itch.
Pics of the bikes
Fast forward twenty some years and I began to wonder what I might have missed out on so off I went and bought both a Kawasaki KR1 and KR1s. Purchased them about 5 years ago and they cost me about £2800 each after I had finished cosmetically tidying them, so they weren’t’ daft money. Both turned out really nice and we’re great rideable examples rather than show queens.
Being 5’7” and about 10 stone I had no problems squeezing onto them. However I quickly became used to the performance which quite frankly i found to be nothing special and bear in mind the last modern bike I rode prior to these 2 strokes was a Ducati 748 which I sold back in 2002, so I haven’t been exposed to any modern hyper bikes.
There is a zing higher up the Rev range but nothing approaching what I had imaged from reading over my old magazine articles. The 250’s were also built to a budget and it shows. They almost feel toy like when compared to larger capacity bikes and the plastics are cheap and prone to breaking. You will also be removing the fairings more frequently than on a four stroke which doesn’t help the lugs longevity.
Parts are a consideration for the Kawasaki’s and are becoming difficult to come by. OEM head-gaskets are no longer available. I believe the suzuki may now be supported under the classic Suzuki parts scheme so availability may be better for them.
I personally did not have any reliability issues with either bike but I didn’t do many miles and both bikes had fresh engines.
Whilst I enjoyed riding them I soon grew tired of them and sold them both, one 4yrs ago and the other last year. I got somewhere in the region of £3850 each. The one I sold last year turned up shortly afterwards in a dealers for £7k although I don’t know if it sold. I’m not sure what demand is like now but I remember not getting much interest and both bikes were advertised below £4K. Did get a few £3k offers over the phone but only 1 physical viewer per bike.
I don’t regret scratching the 2 stroke itch as I fell lucky that the market gave me the experience for free. Would I pay £6k, £7k or more for a 250? Knowing what I know now, no I wouldn’t, but then I’ve already scratched the itch.
Pics of the bikes
Edited by mabull on Thursday 23 December 01:30
Pothole said:
srob said:
One chap even tried to sell me his bike for £1000 which was complete bar the tank!
Have you still got his number?Walter Sobchak said:
srob said:
How much are they actually selling for these days? I know you see crazy prices being advertised, but what are they actually going for?
I looked at a smart card NSR250 back in my youth but bought an FZR400 instead. There was a grey importer (remember those?!) near Norwich called Seastar (now a Ducati dealer) and they'd always have loads of TZRs, NSRs and the last generation RGVs. Haven't seen one of those RGVs for years, actually!
You're right about the powerband, it's something everyone should experience once in their motorcycling life!
I did similar and bought an RVF400 instead of an RS250, the Honda was a great bike too, I’m all it’s gear driven cam mini screaming V4 goodness but the 250 2 stroke is still a biking itch I’ve not scratched.I looked at a smart card NSR250 back in my youth but bought an FZR400 instead. There was a grey importer (remember those?!) near Norwich called Seastar (now a Ducati dealer) and they'd always have loads of TZRs, NSRs and the last generation RGVs. Haven't seen one of those RGVs for years, actually!
You're right about the powerband, it's something everyone should experience once in their motorcycling life!
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