Track experience for new(ish) rider?
Discussion
I passed my test 3 or 4 years ago after having a few £thousand floating around from the sale of a car back then. On a whim, I decided I wanted to get my bike licence, which I did with no problem -- passed first time, bought some decent clothing etc. I was never massively interested in bikes prior to all this, and my only experience was riding around on a scooter with CBT when I was 16/17, but now I love being out on the bike and will always commute on it if it's likely to be a dry day. Since passing I've gone through a couple of Ducatis, a CBR600RR, amongst others, and am now happily riding around on a CB1000R which I'm loving.
I'm not particularly bothered about getting my knee down on a roundabout, having the sportiest bike my money can buy, wheelieing up the road etc., I just enjoy being out riding on the bike.
I'm not 'scared' of the wet weather as there's nothing I can do about it if I'm out and have to ride home when it starts pouring down, but I wouldn't roll the bike out to ride somewhere when it's already raining or damp. I've also never been able to completely get over the fear of going quick around a corner and encountering an unexpected patch of gravel, diesel/oil or drain inspection cover sitting somewhere through the corner and just sliding off the road. I fully appreciate riding involves a significant amount of anticipation and looking far ahead through the corner, but is it simply a case of that?
A few people have said to me over the years that I should get some track experience or book some race school days.
What's the opinion on here?
I'm not particularly bothered about getting my knee down on a roundabout, having the sportiest bike my money can buy, wheelieing up the road etc., I just enjoy being out riding on the bike.
I'm not 'scared' of the wet weather as there's nothing I can do about it if I'm out and have to ride home when it starts pouring down, but I wouldn't roll the bike out to ride somewhere when it's already raining or damp. I've also never been able to completely get over the fear of going quick around a corner and encountering an unexpected patch of gravel, diesel/oil or drain inspection cover sitting somewhere through the corner and just sliding off the road. I fully appreciate riding involves a significant amount of anticipation and looking far ahead through the corner, but is it simply a case of that?
A few people have said to me over the years that I should get some track experience or book some race school days.
What's the opinion on here?
Worrying about what is around the next corner is no bad thing!
If I'm planning more than a pootle I'll assess the road nice and steady in one direction before going a bit quicker on the way back.
I did one track day and have no inclination to do it again.
My experience even in the novice group is that there are a lot of people intent on going too fast. There were numerous crashes and red flags on the one I did. So much so one session was delayed by over an hour as so many people crashed the medical team was fully occupied and they couldn't reopen the track.
Three people crashed in the same incident on the little straight after Graham Hill bend at Brands, in the novice group. How does that even happen?
IMO if you go on the bike you need to ride home on a track day won't be any fun. Watching people sweep the remains of their bike into a van and come round asking if you have duct tape so they can cobble their bike back together for the ride home is a pretty big downer.
Trying to be 'fast' on the road is a recipe for disaster. Concentrate more on being smooth and get more saddle time and you'll feel more confident. Make sure your bike is set up for you and you have good tyres. Makes all the difference.
If I'm planning more than a pootle I'll assess the road nice and steady in one direction before going a bit quicker on the way back.
I did one track day and have no inclination to do it again.
My experience even in the novice group is that there are a lot of people intent on going too fast. There were numerous crashes and red flags on the one I did. So much so one session was delayed by over an hour as so many people crashed the medical team was fully occupied and they couldn't reopen the track.
Three people crashed in the same incident on the little straight after Graham Hill bend at Brands, in the novice group. How does that even happen?
IMO if you go on the bike you need to ride home on a track day won't be any fun. Watching people sweep the remains of their bike into a van and come round asking if you have duct tape so they can cobble their bike back together for the ride home is a pretty big downer.
Trying to be 'fast' on the road is a recipe for disaster. Concentrate more on being smooth and get more saddle time and you'll feel more confident. Make sure your bike is set up for you and you have good tyres. Makes all the difference.
I'd get road based training from these people: https://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/ No bulls
t, all about techniques and skill and with that will come confidence, bike control, vision and therefore speed.
Track days are great fun and I would recommend you try them, but they are of very little practical use on the road.
t, all about techniques and skill and with that will come confidence, bike control, vision and therefore speed.Track days are great fun and I would recommend you try them, but they are of very little practical use on the road.
seveb said:
I'd get road based training from these people: https://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/ No bullst, all about techniques and skill and with that will come confidence, bike control, vision and therefore speed.
Track days are great fun and I would recommend you try them, but they are of very little practical use on the road.
I couldn't agree more. Road training is a much better option and will focus of road techniques that include bike handling but also cover management of road specific situations. Track and road riding are very different and learning and understanding the differences is important before any benefit from track riding can be delivered to the road. t, all about techniques and skill and with that will come confidence, bike control, vision and therefore speed.Track days are great fun and I would recommend you try them, but they are of very little practical use on the road.
seveb said:
I'd get road based training from these people: https://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/ No bullst, all about techniques and skill and with that will come confidence, bike control, vision and therefore speed.
^ this. I've done my share of track days (fun, but limited use for road riding), and Black-k1 and Seveb are 100% correct. Also, I enjoyed my time with Rapid Training even more than track days. You'll learn more from Rapid – and have a far more rewarding day – than the equivalent track time.t, all about techniques and skill and with that will come confidence, bike control, vision and therefore speed.I think that track experience does give you broader experience as a biker and opens your eyes somewhat as to the possible envelope.
I think that how you approach biking and life generally will determine how it works for you.
I have done 30+ track days from a relatively early experience stage and never had an incident - but would categorise myself as someone with respectable pace but that always prioritised rising home over being absolutely the fastest person out there.
The track experience taught me how much grip tyres have and perhaps gives some confidence to deal with things as they come and mistakes to avoid (becoming fixated on danger issues and heading towards them
etc (perhaps what you have in mind) - however, I also found that it can emphasise how different track and road riding are - on track you can push much harder as you have predictable and controlled conditions - I commit in a way I would never do on the road.
So could be one to dip your toe into.
I always find that all of the groups look fast when standing on the pit wall, but it doesn’t feel usual when you are out there.
If you have any concerns, you could try one of the bigger circuits where riders are more spaced out.
That said, you are not going to be sliding the tyres around.
I would agree that getting some instruction on the day could help.
An alternative would be to a day at an off road school - both Yamaha and Triumph run them, where you could expedience some limits of grip. Am sure there are others.
I think that how you approach biking and life generally will determine how it works for you.
I have done 30+ track days from a relatively early experience stage and never had an incident - but would categorise myself as someone with respectable pace but that always prioritised rising home over being absolutely the fastest person out there.
The track experience taught me how much grip tyres have and perhaps gives some confidence to deal with things as they come and mistakes to avoid (becoming fixated on danger issues and heading towards them
etc (perhaps what you have in mind) - however, I also found that it can emphasise how different track and road riding are - on track you can push much harder as you have predictable and controlled conditions - I commit in a way I would never do on the road.
So could be one to dip your toe into.
I always find that all of the groups look fast when standing on the pit wall, but it doesn’t feel usual when you are out there.
If you have any concerns, you could try one of the bigger circuits where riders are more spaced out.
That said, you are not going to be sliding the tyres around.
I would agree that getting some instruction on the day could help.
An alternative would be to a day at an off road school - both Yamaha and Triumph run them, where you could expedience some limits of grip. Am sure there are others.
I've been riding for 5 years and have done 3 trackdays. The appeal of the track day is that you can go fast without having to worry about things like traffic, gravel on a corner, or will there be a tractor around this blind bend. Even though most people are sensible you still have to look out for other riders/idiots and it can be quite daunting until you are used to it, you have to throw away all your road sense. For example I always like to leave a good gap on the road but if you do this on the track people are going to get annoyed as you hold them up, plus you don't get the maximum out of your day. So you have to learn to put some of your caution to the wind, and just concentrate on riding.
Some skills are transferable to the road but you're never going to go all-in on a corner like you would on the track, unless you really like gambling your personal safety. It's great fun and I recommend them but it's a different kettle of fish to a fast but sensible road ride.
Some skills are transferable to the road but you're never going to go all-in on a corner like you would on the track, unless you really like gambling your personal safety. It's great fun and I recommend them but it's a different kettle of fish to a fast but sensible road ride.
The key difference between track and road is that the limitations on the track are defined by the capabilities of the bike and the handling skills of the rider. On the road, the limitations are defined by the conditions and the road skills of the rider. There are reasons why bike plod are bloody fast on winding back roads, usually using bikes that most track day riders would think of as "lumbering tanks", while still being safer than almost all of us, and it's not because they do lots of track days.
In reality, all a track day can help the rider with is understanding that the bike is very likely significantly more capable than they are. Any claim about finding the limits is generally cobblers as, most of the time, you only know where the limit was when you've gone past it and unless you're bike is in the kitty litter then you didn't go past the limit. Additionally, anyone planning on riding their bike on the road at or very near the limit of either the bikes or their own capability really shouldn't be on the road in the first place.
Road riding skill is around assessing ever changing situations, with other road users questionable decision making, variable surfaces and unexpected events. Almost all of these are risks deliberately and specifically removed from track days in order to make them safe enough to allow riders to use more of their bikes potential.
Many people find track days fun and having a chance to really enjoy using your bikes performance without significant risk to life, limb or license can be great, but it is not substitute for learning to ride properly on the road.
In reality, all a track day can help the rider with is understanding that the bike is very likely significantly more capable than they are. Any claim about finding the limits is generally cobblers as, most of the time, you only know where the limit was when you've gone past it and unless you're bike is in the kitty litter then you didn't go past the limit. Additionally, anyone planning on riding their bike on the road at or very near the limit of either the bikes or their own capability really shouldn't be on the road in the first place.
Road riding skill is around assessing ever changing situations, with other road users questionable decision making, variable surfaces and unexpected events. Almost all of these are risks deliberately and specifically removed from track days in order to make them safe enough to allow riders to use more of their bikes potential.
Many people find track days fun and having a chance to really enjoy using your bikes performance without significant risk to life, limb or license can be great, but it is not substitute for learning to ride properly on the road.
Two very different playgrounds, riding on track will help you in the sense it'll show you what your bike is capable of (in my experience vastly more than the owners)
But it's in no way imho, conducive to improving your safety on the roads.
I'd always recommend a trackday, personally I have more fun in one session on track that I'd get in a years worth of riding on the road, but I'd certainly not look at it as a way of making your road riding better or safer.
Having attended plenty of RTC involving bikes, it's a sad fact that almost all of them could have been avoided if only speed limits were adhered to, it's very rare in my experience for accidents to happen outside of the riders control or ability to avoid them, they do of course, but it's rare.
Plenty of courses available though to improve your road riding, definitely worth seeking out.
But it's in no way imho, conducive to improving your safety on the roads.
I'd always recommend a trackday, personally I have more fun in one session on track that I'd get in a years worth of riding on the road, but I'd certainly not look at it as a way of making your road riding better or safer.
Having attended plenty of RTC involving bikes, it's a sad fact that almost all of them could have been avoided if only speed limits were adhered to, it's very rare in my experience for accidents to happen outside of the riders control or ability to avoid them, they do of course, but it's rare.
Plenty of courses available though to improve your road riding, definitely worth seeking out.
Edited by GYTRDave on Thursday 4th November 14:36
I like both, and agree that track days provide useful experience of he capabilities of the bike.
To echo other posters, it gives you confidence in the bike and your ability to ride it, which broadens your knowledge of how a bike can react when you ask something of it, usually unplanned.
While I ride in a much more conservative way on the road, it’s handy to know that you CAN lean more/brake while cornering/move around the bike etc. if circumstances force you to.
That said, the Bikesafe training with the police was much more useful for general road riding, observation etc. but both have added to my bike riding skills and were both worth doing.
To echo other posters, it gives you confidence in the bike and your ability to ride it, which broadens your knowledge of how a bike can react when you ask something of it, usually unplanned.
While I ride in a much more conservative way on the road, it’s handy to know that you CAN lean more/brake while cornering/move around the bike etc. if circumstances force you to.
That said, the Bikesafe training with the police was much more useful for general road riding, observation etc. but both have added to my bike riding skills and were both worth doing.
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