Dean Berta Vinales RIP

[poo at Paul's]

Blimey, poor lad, 15 years old racing in SSP 300 at Jerez today, involved in a crash, struck on track and poor guy's passed away.

Mavericks cousin, racing for a team run by Mav's uncle.

Horrific, poor bugger

[Rob 131 Sport]

RIP. In my humble opinion the minimum age for racing these types of bikes is 17 Years Old.

[Mr Dendrite]

It’s been an awful year, Jason Dupasquier, Hugo Milan and now Dean Berta Vinales, all in their teens, RIP. I think there will be pressure to do something about the junior racing classes.

[UnluckyTimmeh]

I wonder if it’s a mixture of inexperience and grids being too large. Mix that in with the pressure to impress to be spotted etc etc.

Whatever it is, this year has really put a dampener on thing with the loss of life. Sympathies to his family and friends.

[Turn7]

I believe its a brutal combination of youth, inexperince, pressure, and to large a grid....

I cant think of a worst year for bikesports, and its all pretty much laid at Dorna's feet......

The current safety equipment the riders use is the best it has ever been, so there must be something else that needs addressing.

We cannnot keep losing young kids for the sake of sport.

[LukeBrown66]

Grids are too big, bikes are all the same, the quality of riding in SS3000 is nowhere near the standard you get in Moto3, also full of young kids, but the accidents there seem fewer.

Kids are too young, maybe bikes are too hard to ride on the limit, do they run slicks or grooved tyres, maybe one or the other might be an idea?

[Mr Dendrite]

LukeBrown66 said:

Grids are too big, bikes are all the same, the quality of riding in SS3000 is nowhere near the standard you get in Moto3, also full of young kids, but the accidents there seem fewer.

Kids are too young, maybe bikes are too hard to ride on the limit, do they run slicks or grooved tyres, maybe one or the other might be an idea?

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I think the problem is a bit deeper than the ssp300 class. The sad fact is that the other youngsters killed this year were in Moto 3 or the CEV feeder series.

[JimbobVFR]

I've thought the age limit is too low for a while now TBH, Matt Oxley has been pretty vocal on this subject for a while now too.

I did read an interesting discussion that suggested the lightweight classes (moto3 and ss300) actually needed more power and weight to lessen the effect of slipstreaming keeping a tightly packed field and not allowing faster riders to open up a lead and slower riders to drop off a bit. Seems counter intuitive but the article made a lot of sense.

[Zarco]

JimbobVFR said:

I did read an interesting discussion that suggested the lightweight classes (moto3 and ss300) actually needed more power and weight to lessen the effect of slipstreaming keeping a tightly packed field and not allowing faster riders to open up a lead and slower riders to drop off a bit. Seems counter intuitive but the article made a lot of sense.

I think this is bang on.

[Teddy Lop]

Horrible. Was watching it yesterday.

I love the racing but this is a terrible time for the sport.

https://the-race.com/motorcycle-racing/millan-trag...

[Turn7]

JimbobVFR said:

I've thought the age limit is too low for a while now TBH, Matt Oxley has been pretty vocal on this subject for a while now too.

I did read an interesting discussion that suggested the lightweight classes (moto3 and ss300) actually needed more power and weight to lessen the effect of slipstreaming keeping a tightly packed field and not allowing faster riders to open up a lead and slower riders to drop off a bit. Seems counter intuitive but the article made a lot of sense.

I read an intersting piece by someone in the paddock, I forget who now, but he basically said for M3, the issue was gearing. The bikes are geared for slipstreaming, and you often get inexperienced riders sucked into racing others that are genuinely faster than them.
His solution was to limit the gearing ratios - ie, no more than 7mph per gear, as now, top gear can be 15mph difference.

Made sense to me, but I wish I could remember who it was.

[Stuart Fordyce]

It was one of the interviews Mat Oxley did on Motorsport Magazine. Think it was someone from KTM.

I love bike racing but nobody wants to see children being killed as part of the show. Aside from I think minimum age for 125 2stroke or Moto3 being raised to 18 - which should happen immediately tbh, there's a lot of other things the authorities could do:

1. definitely implement at the gearing solution
2. there must be an aerodynamic solution to shorten the length of slipstream by managing the airflow behind the rider
3. this is a nasty one, but do we have an almost different layout for the Moto3 class at some circuits? Possibly even down to temporary chicanes on some of the longer straights, like you get hay bales on rally stages?
4. time trial qualifying, where you are allowed an out lap, two hot laps, and an in lap.

[Turn7]

Stuart Fordyce said:

It was one of the interviews Mat Oxley did on Motorsport Magazine. Think it was someone from KTM.

I love bike racing but nobody wants to see children being killed as part of the show. Aside from I think minimum age for 125 2stroke or Moto3 being raised to 18 - which should happen immediately tbh, there's a lot of other things the authorities could do:

1. definitely implement at the gearing solution
2. there must be an aerodynamic solution to shorten the length of slipstream by managing the airflow behind the rider
3. this is a nasty one, but do we have an almost different layout for the Moto3 class at some circuits? Possibly even down to temporary chicanes on some of the longer straights, like you get hay bales on rally stages?
4. time trial qualifying, where you are allowed an out lap, two hot laps, and an in lap.

Ah yes, well remembered......

[hiccy18]

Stuart Fordyce said:

It was one of the interviews Mat Oxley did on Motorsport Magazine. Think it was someone from KTM.

I love bike racing but nobody wants to see children being killed as part of the show. Aside from I think minimum age for 125 2stroke or Moto3 being raised to 18 - which should happen immediately tbh, there's a lot of other things the authorities could do:

1. definitely implement at the gearing solution
2. there must be an aerodynamic solution to shorten the length of slipstream by managing the airflow behind the rider
3. this is a nasty one, but do we have an almost different layout for the Moto3 class at some circuits? Possibly even down to temporary chicanes on some of the longer straights, like you get hay bales on rally stages?
4. time trial qualifying, where you are allowed an out lap, two hot laps, and an in lap.

I think all that is skirting the issue: if someone falls off in front of a bike they're going to get badly hurt, or worse. There's no excuse for someone dying coming off on their own, but none of the points listed above help someone high siding coming out of turn 1, lap 1, for instance; come off in front of the pack and it's a lottery.

Perhaps rather than fluids the hump should carry an airbag that would cover the back of the head, neck and shoulders deploying the moment they hit the deck.

[Stuart Fordyce]

The fatal accidents that have occurred this year seem to have occured in the braking areas, rather than highsides coming out of corners. Smaller packs and more spread reduces your chances of being hit here.

Also, and this won't happen because we've seen Race Direction have no appetite for it: a proper clampdown with race bans for bad riding. A long lap penalty costs you nothing at most tracks on comparison. People like Jeremy Alcoba, Marc Marquez, Jack Miller, Darryn Binder and Gabriel Rodrigo could all have earned a seat out this year. They need to stamp out the brain dead lunges at Moto3 or earlier.

[poo at Paul's]

Stuart Fordyce said:

The fatal accidents that have occurred this year seem to have occured in the braking areas, rather than highsides coming out of corners. Smaller packs and more spread reduces your chances of being hit here.

Also, and this won't happen because we've seen Race Direction have no appetite for it: a proper clampdown with race bans for bad riding. A long lap penalty costs you nothing at most tracks on comparison. People like Jeremy Alcoba, Marc Marquez, Jack Miller, Darryn Binder and Gabriel Rodrigo could all have earned a seat out this year. They need to stamp out the brain dead lunges at Moto3 or earlier.

Not sure that’s correct, all the ones I can think of seems to be off the corner and getting struck by following and unsighted riders. The modern style of head down by the handlebar means when cranked over, the bike screens a lot of the view.
Suspect that is what happened to Dean Berta, gen ended up on the line just at the corner exit, near the kerb, and the guys in the right handed following just could not see him, their cranked over bikes were in the way.

[hiccy18]

Stuart Fordyce said:

The fatal accidents that have occurred this year seem to have occured in the braking areas, rather than highsides coming out of corners. Smaller packs and more spread reduces your chances of being hit here.

I think that's still skirting the issue: it doesn't matter the circumstances of how you got there, I gave one extreme example for illustration; but equally if you fall off in front of one bike you can be dead (Tomizawa). There's a need for mitigation in a specific circumstance, that of a rider going down on track in front of other riders. Given that it takes just one bike to kill or seriously injure someone, trying to adjust how the pack behaves is fiddling around at the edges, it doesn't directly address the issue that causes death and serious injury. We need to look at technology to protect people.

I am in favour of reducing the effects of slipstreaming on Moto3 but that's because this spectator thinks the race results are often a lottery on some tracks (typical example: Mugello, although not this year).

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

Part of the problem is at that age your talent doesn't match your attitude and you also have awful risk perception as you're still developing neurologically.

I often do MTB coaching for kids from about 10 upwards. All they want to is tackle the biggest jumps and the steepest fastest tracks.

The most difficult aspect coaching them is forcing them to do baby steps. See it MC trials too.

I'm a proponent of smooth is fast. Learn the critical skillset and the speed will come as a result. Factor in pressures of racing and sponsors at 15 and it has to have an effect.

There's also a set load of pushy parents around racing trying to vicariously fulfill their own racing dreams. This doesn't help kids to learn to mitigate their personal risk.

[joema]

yep, not sure how reducing grid size will reduce likelihood of such fatal crashes. It can happen in a bunch of 5 out of a grid of twenty. The issue seems to be high-siding out of a corner and being stuck in a track in the front of a group. I was watching on Saturday waiting for Wsbk and there was no wait between Dean falling and being struck.

It's luck that they're hit or not with the proximity they ride to one another. Bike racing will always be close and if it's not, how do they develop their skills? Uncomfortable seeing minors race on GP level circuits though (4 wheel counterparts are usually in Karts at a similar age).

Ryan Vickers was nearly collected yesterday too.

Moto 3 bikes and the like seems to be highsiding a lot more lately. Why is that? tyres?

[Freakuk]

Michael Fabrizio who returned to WSBK in the SSP600 class refused to race and announced his immediate retirement... He has an interesting view point, I pretty much agree with everything he has said.

https://www.italy24news.com/sports/news/118447.htm...